Liverpool FC Forum

[maguskwt]

Can't get away from the fact we missed a trick when we didn't bring Mascherano AND Tevez to the club last January. Can you picture Torres and Tevez up-front together? ?

the fella was intent on joining the mancs...

[The Manhattan Project]

Torres will get a quality strike partner.

Then Torres and his partner will lay siege to the Premiership.

They will score goals for fun, then eat the children of opposition managers.

[bigmick]

How good can he be is surely the question we should be asking? We've had a disappointing season and he's scoring for fun, how about if he has a good partner up front and a bit more supply from midfield/wide?

It's one of those things Owz which tends to make monkeys out of everyone. I agree with every word of your post, he's scored goals in what has been a fairly ordinary team most of the season so surely he'd score more in a great team?

The truth is almost always the opposite. As we are a bit one man teamish he gets to sit in all the pockets, make all the runs, first dibs on heads up through balls in between defenders (meaning that he is the first and often the only player which the likes of Gerrard will look for) and gets first run on which post he takes up for balls coming into the box. It may well be the case that he'd score more often if we were really firing, but I actually think that if the team is to reach the ultimate of it's potential we really must get away from the situation which you yourself have "statted up" which shows that Gerrard and Torres actually score nearly all of our goals.

I actually wouldn't mind if Torres scored less but our attack becaome less one dimensional. Also I think it is reasonable to expect Premiership defences to play better against him as time goes on. Perhaps they could set up in the same way whcih Birnmingham apparently do. So effective were they about to be in their nullification of our star striker that the manager deemed it pointless even sending Torres out just to tire himself out banging into a brick wall.

Maybe we could get a creative second striker and make the most of Torres as we did with Rush and Dalglish. Rather than bringing in another striker that will compete with Torres for the spaces and perhaps make similar runs, bring in a creative second striker that will create space for Torres and supply the through balls etc that Torres can feed on.

As for prem defences playing better against him next season, everyone said that about Van Nistelroy when he first came to England as well. Its up to the team to supply and create the chances, although I agree I would like to see a few players actually scoring a few, rather than depending on one or two players to get all the goals.

I didn't actually explain myself very well Saint now I've read it back, and you can be rest assured that I've been well and truly converted to the creative second striker idea of yours and this post wasn't intended as a change of tack. What I meant by us becoming one man teamish is that not only do we rely on Torres for nearly all our goals, but we rely on him to be the target for the through balls every time, to run the channel every time, and we attack in a similar way every time.

I think the creative second striker would not just help Torres though, I think it would help us as a team become more unpredictable and therefore more potent. It does of course also require that the likes of Pennant and whoever plays on the left get involved in the play more by moving inside to join in, but that to me is the path to fluency which we are going to need if we are ever to challenge for the title.

If we look at what we have achieved this season with a fantastic striker, in comparison to what we achieved in other seasons with ordinary strikers it kind of illustrates what I mean I think. Previously we were ponderous and ordinary up top but we did spread the goals around a bit more and were difficult to stop scoring unless playing against the top teams. This season, Torres and Gerrard have scored all the goals, and yet we still have the same problem. I'm agreeing with you on the creative second striker, I'm just making the point that his arrival will enable the team as a whole to function better, not just Torres.

As for defences failing to stop Van Nistelroy, that is true. I'm not so sure though that the Dutchman didn't achieve that because of continuous developement in his technique and not just a blind spot on the part of opposition coaches. What Van Nistelroy did very well like many before him (some of them our own, Rush, Fowler etc) was get himself open in the box lots of times. This was done by very clever movement, some of it instinctive and some of it honed on the training pitch. His "stand behind the last man from free kicks" routine was very innovative at the time, and indicated to me that he was a thinking striker, always looking for the edge. He wasn't especially quick accross the ground but quick enough, and was good at predicting early whare the path of the ball was going to be, getting in position and strong enough to hold off defenders. He also was I have to say more dead eyed in his finishing than our man currently is, but i'm confident Torres will improve given time.

Torres isn't for me a "fox in the box" type striker at this stage, which although makes him fantastic to watch does mean that there are more ways to stop him. Perhaps the addition of the creative second striker will allow him to develop the tap in side of his game and he can become that player in his second season, but whichever whatever and however, i do think if he can match the number of goals he's going to score this season next season it'll be an unbelieveable achievement.

[The Manhattan Project]

Torres isn't for me a "fox in the box" type striker at this stage

Why do you want to put Ruel Fox...



....in a box?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

If we're going out to buy a "creative forward" it has to be a Zola/Cantona/Bergkamp/Dalglish type. One who'll chip in with 10/15 goals a season in all competitions, otherwise we'll be relying on Torres solely again for the goals from up front.

I think a player in the Robbie Fowler mould would benifit us a great deal as well. Someone who knows that their job is to stand on the penalty spot and as soon as they get a sniff at goal they put the ball in the back of the net.

That way we'd have for next season's forward line: Crouch for his height, creative forward, natural goal poacher, and Torres' pace. We'd have everything there and Benitez could rotate them all day to suit the style of play we'd be playing on a particular day.

[The Manhattan Project]

If we're going out to buy a "creative forward" it has to be a Zola/Cantona/Bergkamp/Dalglish type. One who'll chip in with 10/15 goals a season in all competitions, otherwise we'll be relying on Torres solely again for the goals from up front.

I think a player in the Robbie Fowler mould would benifit us a great deal as well. Someone who knows that their job is to stand on the penalty spot and as soon as they get a sniff at goal they put the ball in the back of the net.

That way we'd have for next season's forward line: Crouch for his height, creative forward, natural goal poacher, and Torres' pace. We'd have everything there and Benitez could rotate them all day to suit the style of play we'd be playing on a particular day.

Who's available and what can we afford?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

If we're going out to buy a "creative forward" it has to be a Zola/Cantona/Bergkamp/Dalglish type. One who'll chip in with 10/15 goals a season in all competitions, otherwise we'll be relying on Torres solely again for the goals from up front.

I think a player in the Robbie Fowler mould would benifit us a great deal as well. Someone who knows that their job is to stand on the penalty spot and as soon as they get a sniff at goal they put the ball in the back of the net.

That way we'd have for next season's forward line: Crouch for his height, creative forward, natural goal poacher, and Torres' pace. We'd have everything there and Benitez could rotate them all day to suit the style of play we'd be playing on a particular day.

Who's available and what can we afford?

If we're given 20 million (just for forwards) then from England (because I don't know the european game all that well) I'd take Benni McCarthy from Blackburn as the natural finisher, playing for a club like Blackburn means they can't afford to turn down a bid of around 5 million. He may not be the best around, but for a small amount like that he'll chip in with a fair few.

Creative wise I think Robbie Keane is the best realistic target, but might be expensive. Also with Spurs just winning the League Cup he might see that club going places under Ramos and may decide to stay. Saying that, he's a huge Liverpool fan and 15 million might be to good for Spurs to turn down. If we can't get him I've been impressed with Elano from Man City. Both would be pricey, but there as good as we can get from the Premieship IMO.

As for players from around the Europe, then I'm sure some of our more continental fans would be able to enlighten us.

[7_Kewell]

If we're going out to buy a "creative forward" it has to be a Zola/Cantona/Bergkamp/Dalglish type. One who'll chip in with 10/15 goals a season in all competitions, otherwise we'll be relying on Torres solely again for the goals from up front.

I think a player in the Robbie Fowler mould would benifit us a great deal as well. Someone who knows that their job is to stand on the penalty spot and as soon as they get a sniff at goal they put the ball in the back of the net.

That way we'd have for next season's forward line: Crouch for his height, creative forward, natural goal poacher, and Torres' pace. We'd have everything there and Benitez could rotate them all day to suit the style of play we'd be playing on a particular day.

Who's available and what can we afford?

If we're given 20 million (just for forwards) then from England (because I don't know the european game all that well) I'd take Benni McCarthy from Blackburn as the natural finisher, playing for a club like Blackburn means they can't afford to turn down a bid of around 5 million. He may not be the best around, but for a small amount like that he'll chip in with a fair few.

Creative wise I think Robbie Keane is the best realistic target, but might be expensive. Also with Spurs just winning the League Cup he might see that club going places under Ramos and may decide to stay. Saying that, he's a huge Liverpool fan and 15 million might be to good for Spurs to turn down. If we can't get him I've been impressed with Elano from Man City. Both would be pricey, but there as good as we can get from the Premieship IMO.

As for players from around the Europe, then I'm sure some of our more continental fans would be able to enlighten us.

the day we sign Robbie Keane for 15 million is the day I'll demand Rafa reigns...

[Torres 2007]

Michael Owen, 20+ goals a  season and clinical when fit. still has 5 good seasons left IMO.

Rafa bought a "spent" Robbie Fowler IMO, so anything is possible.

Also....hows about Kaka?  just off Torres, plus crouch option too.

thats what you call dynamite up front.

[The Manhattan Project]

Owen will stay at Newcastle because according to Manhattan's sources, Kevin Keegan will lead them to a land that is promised, or something.

[bigmick]

the day we sign Robbie Keane for 15 million is the day I'll demand Rafa reigns...

See even when you're trying to have a little pop at the manager if a scenario comes to pass, you can't quite bring yourself to type it. A little subconcious message gets sent to your fingers and you make a Freudian slip. 

[Sabre]

I'm very proud of Fernando. I think I may add something to my signature to remember my mistake in the prediction of his success here. I felt very badly when I trusted Morientes and then he dissapointed here. So I couldn't be confident if Fernando hadn't ever made more than 15 goals and many of them were penalties. For that money I wanted Villa or a Etoo, a sure bet, I didn't want yet another Spanish dissapointment.

I'm fúcking proud of Fernando's job. Part of it's success is due to something that Bigmick explains somewhere else when he shows how he'd try to stop Torres if he was a coach.

In Spain he wasn't allowed to turn and run, he'd be made a "tactical foul" more often, as Bigmick described, in positions in which there's not a lot of danger. He found aswell on front of him more teams with packed defences and midfields, where as now he finds more "valiant" teams that provide more spaces. I think that the english football has suited perfectly him. I didn't expect to see him not intimidated, and he has surprised me a lot.

He was more of  a cheater in Spain, a bit of that we saw against Inter, but he has shown me that he has learned how are the rules in England aswell. I didn't expect such a good attitude.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Owen will stay at Newcastle because according to Manhattan's sources, Kevin Keegan will lead them to a land that is promised, or something.

Keegan will lead them relegation.

He took over there for the second time on my birthday, hasn't won a game since. I've never like the geordies anyway so I'll really enjoy them going down.

As for Owen coming back, I don't see it. I'd rather have Owen coming off the bench than Kuyt/Voronin but I don't see Owen being happy to only be a bit part player not at 29 anyway and I don't know if his injuries can clear up enough to get him back to being number one choice.

[username]

I'm very proud of Fernando. I think I may add something to my signature to remember my mistake in the prediction of his success here.

I already have it in mine 

[Sabre]

I'm very proud of Fernando. I think I may add something to my signature to remember my mistake in the prediction of his success here.

I already have it in mine 

Fair enough I guess