Liverpool FC Forum

[Rush Job]

If moores was still in charge we wouldnt have Torres or Mascherano. He was out of funds which is why he had no choice but to sell the club.

Wrong, if Moores was willing to sink the club in debt in the way the yanks have i dare say we'd have more money to spend on transfers than we have now. He sold the club to avoid spiralling debt and to ensure we got a new stadium but.......  How can you still not have an understanding of this issue?

We would have one or the other, Torres or Mascherano, not both. Moores wasnt willing to sink the club into more debt and so he had to sell. Why cant you understand this issue? Or is it just easier to blame the yanks? Or indeed blame moores himself, "he sold out", no he didnt, he was at the point where he had to sell, he couldnt take LFC any further.

If Moores was willing to get the club in the kind of debt the yanks have i dare say we'd have Torres, Masch and Villa, put it this way if we under Moores got 200mill in debt the lion's share of that would have gone on transfers ( new stadia aside ), that wasnt the way he wanted to do things so he sold, now we're how much in debt? and how much do we have to spend? Unlike the mancs and chelsea our spending hasnt rose dramatically yet our debt has sored.

But thats an "if". He had to make a choice, and I have no doubt he is regretting the choice he made.

Your a strange lad to debate with mate you really are, you make me look back thinking what did i just say, like arguing with the misses.

[Kharhaz]

Your a strange lad to debate with mate you really are, you make me look back thinking what did i just say, like arguing with the misses.

Thats not true, with the missus you and I know we are in the wrong !

[Rush Job]

Your a strange lad to debate with mate you really are, you make me look back thinking what did i just say, like arguing with the misses.

Thats not true, with the missus you and I know we are in the wrong !

Scarey your starting to sound very like her mate, if a couldnt hear her snoring like fck, a little less rohipnul next time.   

[ConnO'var]

Yawn - a Rafa bashing love in.

Leonmc0708 wrote

If you dont want to read it then please feel free from refraining from doing so. However please dont spam hte thread with your views on it.

Having trouble following your own advise, mate?

[lakes10]

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

A: No they will some how sell us for a lot of money

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

A: Rafa, he has built a good team but not used it right


3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

A: Rafa, he has only one thing on his mind , CL

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

A: to keep SG happy and to make sure he stays at the club.

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

A. no we must more wide and sometime open the play up and put our back 4 at risk.

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

A : Well thats the hard one, i hope that now sammy is at the club things might change, as for Rafa "learned anything" well no, he has a big head and feel he is right all the time, thats why we need Sammy.

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

A: The Big shock is yes he can bring us the 19th, if and its a big if, he forgets about the CL for one year.

If we were to just forget about the CL we'd be fcked, if Rafa has favoured that comp its because without it and a decent run at that we wouldnt be speaking about winning the prem, more like staying in it. Like it or not we need the CL revenue and without it there would be no possible push for the prem.

No, i feel that if we had just taken the CL games as they come and not rested our best players in the build up to them games we would /could have won the Prem this year.
the CL game would take care of themselves if we had just took them as any other game.

[bigmick]

This is by a distance the best thread on here at the moment and I am amazed it is just disappearing down the gurgler with nobody posting in it. It is not a Rafa bashing thread at all I don't think, and some posters have raised interesting points as follow ons to the first few posts.

Is there for instance something in Rushie's idea that far from being pointless, targeting Champions league success has been essential to allowing us to buy the players which mean we can now challenge for the title?

Surely some posters have some views? No?

[The Manhattan Project]

1- They will eventually sell us to DIC.

2- Partly. Rafa is to blame too.

3- Both. It's a matter of lack of investment and Rafa's tactics, and the mentality of the players.

4- Barry is a legcruncher and adds some steel. Alonso is a great passer of the ball but Rafa may feel that he's peaked.

5- We need steel down the centre and flair on the wings. I don't mean Ric Flair. We need a killer instinct to finish off inferior teams like Wigan.

6- I don't think anything will change. We will finish at most 3rd.

7- We will not win the title with Rafa. I'm not sure if we'll win the title again with anyone. The first priority is to sort out the ownership issue. That above all else is important.

[metalhead]

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?


Well that was seven    Oh well I was bored so I Thought I'd throw a few questions up.

1. I wouldn't be surprised at all! with what we are hearing and reading, it does look like thats going to happen in the future

2. I would say both. First, for Rafa making some mistakes in tactical and other areas of the team. On the other hand, for Hicks and Gillete not backing Rafa to get the players he wants with money, while the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Mancs have an open cheque book to buy 2 or 3 players each valued 20m. Hence, it would slow our progress to challenge for the title.

3. I would say Rafa's, but I dont think Moores has the money to buy all these players!!!

4. I think our left needs fixing, Barry can fit in well there, so basically Rafa knows which positions needs to be fixed! Barry can play 3 positions really well, whether at left mid or center mid.

5. If we need flairy type of players we need money to buy those players, unfortunatley we don't have. Plus, we need to keep a more settled team, just keep the spine of our team to play every week, maybe rest them in carling cup or other pointless games, so basically rotate sensibly and we should do fine.

6. No I don't think so, Rafa always prioritized the premiership as the first competition he wants to win, unfortunately we are out of the race in december, so he turns his attention to the champions league. This talk about Rafa putting the CL first is just b*llox, he just knows how to tactically get it spot on in europe thats why we do so well, and hopefully he can find a winning formula in the premiership.

7. We are slowley progressing, really slowley, so it depends on the fan's patience on how to percieve this. Im patient, so I believe he can get us number 19, we just need a bit of luck and a couple of quids.

-------------

Your happy Bigmick?

[Penguins]

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

There is a big risk that might happen. The problem is that any buyer who would have to buy the club must deal with a huge loan and not only that the 2 clowns wants money in their pockets. Which means they would want 500 million+ for a club that hasn't progressed one bit since they bought it for 200 million. So the best for potential buyers is to wait until the club is in freefall and the banks call the shots or the 2 clowns
has really no other choice but to sell. Only then a potential buyer might get it at a reasonable price.

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

The game is evolving and the league is evolving which means that no team that doesn't spend huge amount of money will
not win any titles. The trend is clear. And please, Arsenal hasn't won a trophy for years. it's all about spending and
that's why Manure and Chelski is top.

A manager is one person, and not a miracle worker. He can make a difference between 4th and 2nd maybe or 9th and 6th, but there isn't a team good enough that will show over the course of the season.



3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

It would mostly be Moores fault. Just becasue of the reality of things. Wow, we have Masch and Torres who has cost 15 million+ in our team. Look at our main competitors and you'll see a trend.


4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

3. He might think barry is more suitable for the Pl game and that Alonso hasn't performed for 2 years, but Rafa has this zealous attitude towards the center of the field. He can't stop
buying central midfielders. But let us not forget that with kewell gone and the fact that we might not afford a new winger Babel is out only player who can play out left.
Barry is versatile and can do that, Alonso can not.

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

You need players of the required quality to be able to play and attacking game. We have way too few players of that kind and more of the likes of Kuyt, who can't take on a player in this or in his next life. We also need a team with much quicker players and our backline is anything but quick.
And finally, and attacking style requires top class wingers with flair and pace and we haven't had one of those for decades.

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

Rotate is what he does. But I think thuis debate is sqewed
since I know that manure rotated just as much last season.
Just a poor excuse to hide the truth.
And the truth is our bench is too poor and our squad has too little quality. Once Rafa rests Gerrard and Torres vs Barnsley
it becomes and open game. That is pathetic and says all we need to know about the quality of the squad.


7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?

Back rafa just as Chelski and Manures mangers has been backed and he'll bring no 19. If not then stop demand miracles!!!! It's time some people get that through their heads!
Rafa hasn't made one big transfer blunder yet like Manure with Veron or Chelski with Mutu, Crespo, Del horno and so on

And if those teams makes failures, what do they do?

Spend more! They get Rooney, Ferdinand, Drogba, Carvalho for a heck of a lot of money.
If rafa makes one mistake like those and his head is gone.

Right now everyone is dissapointed that we might only get Degen, Dossena, Barry and not much else and are angry there is no money. The team ended 4th last season and I can bet there will be people asking for Rafa's head in 6th months even if manure and Chelski spend 40 million each!

And go on and on about how great of a spine the team has but still have Kuyt as a starter and no improvement on the wings.
Lovely!

[Bad Bob]

1. With the "gruesome twosome" in charge of the club, do you honestly think they'll leave the club in a finacial wreck and leave us finacially beyond recognition as a top club ?

2. With money apparently being tight for the club to spend on players, would it then be percieved as the "gruesome twosomes" fault for not challenging for the title or Rafa's ?

3. If David Moores was still in charge of the club, and bought Mascharano and Torres aswell as a few others, money permitting of course. And say we yet again failed to challenge for the title, would it be Moores' fault or Rafa's fault for challenging.

4. Why do you think that Rafa is willing to sell Xabi Alonso, and recruit Barry when other areas of the team need more work on, what can you see in that, if money is so tight ?

5. Do you think that in order to challenge for the league next season we should adopt a more expansive game, and throw caution to the wind more, maybe acquiring more "flairy" type players in doing so. Or do you believe that Rafa's seemingly pragmatic approach to opponents week in week out will stand us i better stead for challenging ?

6. Will Rafa rotate us out of form and out of the title race before Novemeber (if that is the case). Or will he get the juggling act of the CL and the Prem right this season, in all, do you think he has learned anything from the previous two campaigns, and even more importantly do you think he'll act accordingly ?

7. Since Rafa has been here, have you seen any sign that he'll bring us number 19, and more importantly do you think he's the man to bring home number 19 ?


Well that was seven    Oh well I was bored so I Thought I'd throw a few questions up.

1) Perhaps it's just the optimist in me but I don't think they'll leave us in an absolute wreck.  Like a few others, I think they'll sell up for a handsome profit before too long and I'm hopeful whoever replaces them has the resources to get us back on solid ground financially as well as move us forward on the pitch.  If anything, what the Yanks will be guilty of is allowing us to stagnate while our competitors march on.  Will we ever see a new stadium with the additional revenue it brings under these two?  Will we keep pace in the transfer market if they're going to insist we keep selling to buy?  I think no on both questions and that is the worry for me.

2) I presume we're talking about the coming season rather than last season (when I think the shock of the boardroom machinations coming to light completely knocked the team off its stride for a few weeks)?  Looking at next season, I think it would be Rafa's fault.  The key word for me is "challenge" and by that I understand us being with half a dozen points of the leaders with half a dozen games to go.  If we were to sign no one this off season I still think that we would have the squad--barring some long-term injuries to key players--to challenge this season.  As we proved down the stretch last season, the team does have the capacity to block out the boardroom nonsense and get on with the football and, presuming they do that next season, I don't think we can blame the owners too much if we fail to challenge again.

3) Same premise as above.  We should be challenging with this squad next season regardless of who the owners are.  If we don't, Rafa probably needs to go.

4) I think the point that Saint and a few others have made about Barry's versatility makes the most sense to me.  By bringing in the AV man in place of Alonso, we don't lose too much (despite the fact that Alonso's the better player, I still contend ) at CM and we gain a lot at LM, should Rafa wish to play him there.  Like others, I would have preferred to keep Alonso and address our shortcomings elsewhere but, in a way, I'm not surprised by this move.  To me, Rafa sees CM as the fulcrum of the team and wants to get that exactly right first.  I'm sure he still rates Alonso but perhaps he does feel that Barry offers a little bit more against Premiership opposition.  If that turns out to be the case, I'll consider it a good move, although I hope that we can also sign at least one consistently good creative player this season to help Gerrard and Torres out further up the pitch.

5) I don't think we're that far away, TBH.  Last season we put a number of teams to the sword, scoring 3 or more goals in a quite a few games, which shows that, when we're clicking, the attacking quality is there.  Unfortunately, it depends on Gerrard and Torres being fit and in form so I think if we can add one more attacking threat to the side, we'll have all the flair we need.  Alternatively, Babel could come on this season and show more consistency or--perhaps a longshot here--Nemeth could break through.  I'd still feel more comfortable getting another quality winger or 2nd striker in that can help us put the ball in the net and turn draws into wins.  Otherwise, I wouldn't change anything about our set up or tactical approach.

6) I think that we will see much less Rafa-style next season because our last few months of the season last year told him a lot about who is up to it and who isn't.  When fit, we know that Torres, Gerrard, Masch, Carra and Reina will start every game.  I would also expect that one of either Agger or Skrtel will become the established partner to Carra at CB and that Barry will see lots of action if signed.  The rotation, I think, will occur mostly in the wide areas--wingers and fullbacks--if we persist with the 4-2-3-1.  Much will depend on how Degen and Dossena settle, on how Arbeloa and Aurelio respond to the competition and perhaps on whether we sell Finnan or not.  That's four positions that will probably see the most rotation but my hope is that Rafa sorts out his first-choice fullbacks rather quickly and leaves the rotating to mostly the wide midfield positions.  Out wide, I think Babel and Kuyt will get the initial chance to restake their claims but, depending on who--if anyone--we sign, I expect there will be some chopping and changing down the touchlines.  Now, should we go 4-4-2--and assuming we don't sign a world class striker to partner Torres--I suspect we'll see more rotation at 2nd striker and less rotation at LM, which would probably be Barry's spot, with Masch and Gerrard central.

7) I think that Rafa can bring us Number 19 but that it may take a few more seasons.  For him to last that long, he'll need to mount a proper challenge every season and tweak the formula to bring us closer and closer to the title.  Once he and the players get a sniff, though, I think a major psychological barrier will have been removed and then anything can happen.