Liverpool FC Forum

[Ben Patrick]

First I just want to say, despite the little scare yesterday we have played 3 and won 3 so it's been a very good start to the season.

I do have some concerns though.

1. Substitutions

My main worry with Rodgers and subs is that he doesnt make them early enough.
We have got to a point in the second half of all 3 games where we look tired and in need of changes and they just dont happen quick enough for me.

This might be because he doesnt trust the quality of the subs on the bench. But for me to play Sturridge who has not had a pre-season for the full 90 minutes in both league games and not give Borini 10 minutes at least at the end of games is strange.
It's common knowledge that late on in games this is the time when injuries can occur.
I wouldnt mind if we were still on top and comfortable but we have been virtually hanging on in both games.
We wont always get away with that.

2. Fitness

This one for me is the more worrying.
We have 2 players that for an hour look great in Gerrard and Lucas, but they have both tailed off badly in both league games and look shattered.
I am not sure if this is because of the system we play, does it make them have to work too hatrd ? Covering the full backs that have bombed on I mean.
Or is it just a case that Gerrard is getting towards the end of his career and Lucas has had previously 2 long spells out ?
Either way for me it's a worry and especially if Rodgers will not take either of them off when they are struggling.

I know it's early in the season and fitness levels should improve but it's been quite alarming how much they have struggled in the last half hour of games.

Thoughts ?

[Kenny Kan]

This one for me is the more worrying.
We have 2 players that for an hour look great in Gerrard and Lucas, but they have both tailed off badly in both league games and look shattered.
I am not sure if this is because of the system we play, does it make them have to work too hatrd ? Covering the full backs that have bombed on I mean.
Or is it just a case that Gerrard is getting towards the end of his career and Lucas has had previously 2 long spells out ?
Either way for me it's a worry and especially if Rodgers will not take either of them off when they are struggling.

An undermanned and overworked midfield IMO. These were my concerns in the MIDFIELD thread.

[red till i die!!]

First I just want to say, despite the little scare yesterday we have played 3 and won 3 so it's been a very good start to the season.

I do have some concerns though.

1. Substitutions

My main worry with Rodgers and subs is that he doesnt make them early enough.
We have got to a point in the second half of all 3 games where we look tired and in need of changes and they just dont happen quick enough for me.

This might be because he doesnt trust the quality of the subs on the bench. But for me to play Sturridge who has not had a pre-season for the full 90 minutes in both league games and not give Borini 10 minutes at least at the end of games is strange.
It's common knowledge that late on in games this is the time when injuries can occur.
I wouldnt mind if we were still on top and comfortable but we have been virtually hanging on in both games.
We wont always get away with that.

2. Fitness

This one for me is the more worrying.
We have 2 players that for an hour look great in Gerrard and Lucas, but they have both tailed off badly in both league games and look shattered.
I am not sure if this is because of the system we play, does it make them have to work too hatrd ? Covering the full backs that have bombed on I mean.
Or is it just a case that Gerrard is getting towards the end of his career and Lucas has had previously 2 long spells out ?
Either way for me it's a worry and especially if Rodgers will not take either of them off when they are struggling.

I know it's early in the season and fitness levels should improve but it's been quite alarming how much they have struggled in the last half hour of games.

Thoughts ?

our bench is very weak tbh and there is nothing there at all that can come on and change the game.
gerrard has lost a yard of pace and lucas should have been following him around trying to find it, with them 2 sitting so deep we will be stretched especially if the opposition has any pace in their midfield. gerrard has got to play though as the rest will switch off without him. he is our driving force. lucas did have two spells out but both were the same injury, the second time was that he hadnt fully recovered and was rushed back when he wasnt ready. in fairness to him though he isnt often injured and has a good degree of fitness but just no pace.
allen isnt good enough and suso or shelvey could offer more than alberto this season. i really dont see the point in borini either and especially rodgers reluctance to play the lad. i seriously have to question as to why he bought him in the first place. monster my ar$e.
tactically this season rodgers isnt as open as we were last, i think he is desperate to get the points at all costs and has no problem shutting up shop in the second half rather than the players getting tired or burnt out.

[jacdaniel]

For substitutes I just don't think he really rates the likes of Borini.  If the games had of been put to bed he probably would have brought him on.  But its hard to take Sturridge off at 1 - 0. 

Its a bit early in the season to discuss fitness though.  We'll have to keep an eye on it for now and hope the players get fitter with more games.
Surprised Henderson never plays CM or gets switched to CM.

[woof woof !]

First I just want to say, despite the little scare yesterday we have played 3 and won 3 so it's been a very good start to the season.

I do have some concerns though.

My main worry with Rodgers and subs is that he doesnt make them early enough.
Thoughts ?

Mate Cissoko was taken off injured after ten minutes followed by Allen (possible hamstring ?) around about the hour mark, with half an hour of normal time left he'd already used two subs. Many managers wouldn't have fielded their last sub until it was an absolute necessity but in an attempt to get a third goal he then brought on Coutinho with fully 20 mins of normal time remaining.

Not sure what more you expected him to do ?

[Ben Patrick]

For substitutes I just don't think he really rates the likes of Borini.  If the games had of been put to bed he probably would have brought him on.  But its hard to take Sturridge off at 1 - 0. 

Its a bit early in the season to discuss fitness though.  We'll have to keep an eye on it for now and hope the players get fitter with more games.
Surprised Henderson never plays CM or gets switched to CM.

I thought he could hardly run at the end of the Stoke game Sturridge, if Borini isnt coming on at a time like that then he wont get much football at all.

[Hustler 2]

1 substitutions.- late or not ,there are few on the bench who can make a massive impact or change a game anyway.maybe sterling thats it.Im certainly.not expecting joe allen + borini to come on and make a huge difference, because they're not world class

2. Fitness. They need more games under their belt, but we all know Gerrard has seen better days, and Lucas in my opinion is overrated and is bound to disappear in games.

We mainly need to play higher up the pitch and stop dropping too deep, esp second halfs.and keep posession of the ball. That is the main worry in the first three games.

[Benny The Noon]

1. Subs - I'm not sure much more could have been last night with injuries being suffered but in previous games he has been very reluctant to make changes. When we were struggling he hasn't made changes and in recent games when we have needed a change he hasn't made them ( performance dropping in the last 30 mins )

2. Fitness - Gerrard isn't a spring chicken anymore and will flag towards the end of games - he needs managed more - just look at Giggs, 41 and still going because he hasn't been played to death.

Lucas chases down everything and is non stop throughout which means he is a top level for 60/70 mins then just drops - he needs to learn to conserve his energy more.

[Ben Patrick]

First I just want to say, despite the little scare yesterday we have played 3 and won 3 so it's been a very good start to the season.

I do have some concerns though.

My main worry with Rodgers and subs is that he doesnt make them early enough.
Thoughts ?

Mate Cissoko was taken off injured after ten minutes followed by Allen (possible hamstring ?) around about the hour mark, with half an hour of normal time left he'd already used two subs. Many managers wouldn't have fielded their last sub until it was an absolute necessity but in an attempt to get a third goal he then brought on Coutinho with fully 20 mins of normal time remaining.

Not sure what more you expected him to do ?

Sorry Woof it is more the first two games I was referring to.

I think Benny is correct in his post. Gerrard for me shouldnt be playing the full 90 minutes week in week out if we want the best of him.
Lucas looks outstanding for an hour and then really drops off.
I am still not sure on whether that's his own fitness or like I said in the initial thread starter the fact that the system demands too much from him ?

[damjan193]

Well last night we didn't have much choice with the substitutions, but it is obvious that Rodgers isn't keen on making too many changes, even when the players are obviously tired. I think you got it right, Brendan just doesn't rate the bench. Borini doesn't look capable of making an impact and there's no sense in bringing in lightweight players like Allen or Alberto in the midfield when we're under pressure (which was the case of the last 2 league games). Henderson would be a great impact sub for the midfield but he's already a starter.

As for the fitness, I'm not really sure. It might be a bit of both - Gerrard being old and Lucas being long time out injured plus both have to work really hard because of the system we play.

[LFC1990]

1. Subs - I'm not sure much more could have been last night with injuries being suffered but in previous games he has been very reluctant to make changes. When we were struggling he hasn't made changes and in recent games when we have needed a change he hasn't made them ( performance dropping in the last 30 mins )

just look at Giggs, 41 .

Giggs is 39 hahaha

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

hope gerrard and lucas dont dramatically run out of gas tomorrow, or if they do i hope rodgers goes to the bench before united have us defending for our lives in `alamo mode` because once you have already been pushed back to the point where you`re defending on the edge of your area it`s difficult to regain control of the midfield again.
rodgers has got to be pro active and make changes as soon as the momentum starts to change.
if united pin us back late on like stoke/villa did there`s no way we`ll keep rooney and van persie at bay.

[Ben Patrick]

Agree yakka. United are usually masters of exerting pressure and if we are struggling in the second half changes need to be made much earlier than the first two league games.

[Benny The Noon]

Agree yakka. United are usually masters of exerting pressure and if we are struggling in the second half changes need to be made much earlier than the first two league games.

But who comes on though Ben ? The options for Lucas and Gerrard are very thin on the ground

[damjan193]

Benny has a point. Who do we bring in? Certainly not Alberto, he won't handle the pressure. Allen wouldn't either IMO, but he's injured for this one anyway.