Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

Shows a bit more (on full screen):LINK

see now in that one, someone apart from the guy who elbowed the manc first looks to get a few hits in. if thats supposed to be stevie, then it dont look too good.....

but hope for the best, hope he's playin come the start of the season....

just seen it on bbc news, yes it is him......well they are saying its him and he is saying he did hit the guy.

What dissapoints me most is that it seems like it's Stevie being a pr1ck which started this, if the initial reports are to be believed, also not good him just barging into that girl to try and get his hits in, that's not good at all. 

At the end of that day it's the kind of scuffle that happens all the time and no big deal but I'm not happy with Stevie's arrogant attitude if he actually said what is being reported. If he said that to me I would have told him to feck off too and if for example it was Ronaldo acting like a jerk in that way then I probably would have kicked his , actually if I ever see Ronaldo I'd kick his just on general principle and then claim that he attacked me first

[Bad Bob]

Shows a bit more (on full screen):LINK

Well, that's a bit more dam.ning, isn't it?  What's this about the CCTV evidence being inadmissable though?

[Greavesie]

the current law of self defence can include anticipating an attack, it is not necessary for your attacker to throw the first punch, the force used must be no more than necessary to destablise the perceived 'threat'. Even if the perception of an attack is mistaken, provided it is an honest mistake the defence of self defence is not affected. there is no duty to retreat the situation.

just for those who want to know how self defence as a defence operates in law

[Number 9]

If it was him then he's gonna be given a heavy charge especially after pleading not guilty.

Fuc'k sake people steal cars and knock the fuc'k outta grannies in this country and still dont get jail!!

[ElNino9]

I like to think the worst of things.

[red37]

I like to think the worst of things.

Oh....f*ck

[ElNino9]

[LFC2007]

the current law of self defence can include anticipating an attack, it is not necessary for your attacker to throw the first punch, the force used must be no more than necessary to destablise the perceived 'threat'. Even if the perception of an attack is mistaken, provided it is an honest mistake the defence of self defence is not affected. there is no duty to retreat the situation.

That's where the CCTV evidence may fall down - he will explain his actions in the context of fearing the threat of violence, but the images don't show the DJ immediately before he's allegedly hit, or while he's allegedly being hit. In other words, it's much harder to gauge how necessary Stevie's actions were. It appears to me as if Stevie's giving it some (if it is Stevie), that he used a degree of force that exceeds what could be considered reasonable for the purposes of arguing self-defence.

Well, that's a bit more dam.ning, isn't it?  What's this about the CCTV evidence being inadmissable though?

Not sure, mate. You'll have to ask Lakes on that one.

[Greavesie]

thats exactly what I think LFC2007. Without context or at least a more clear image of whats going on its hard to tell. We all know words can provoke such a melee and thats one thing we dont get here. I'd put good money on summits been said about his missus and its got Stevie a bit annoyed. I'd love to know the actual point of law they're arguing tho. Can someone not go to one of the hearings tomorrow? (if there is one that is)

[Number 9]

I like to think the worst of things.

Funny it does'nt show through your posts!

[Number 9]

the current law of self defence can include anticipating an attack, it is not necessary for your attacker to throw the first punch, the force used must be no more than necessary to destablise the perceived 'threat'. Even if the perception of an attack is mistaken, provided it is an honest mistake the defence of self defence is not affected. there is no duty to retreat the situation.

That's where the CCTV evidence may fall down - he will explain his actions in the context of fearing the threat of violence, but the images don't show the DJ just before he's allegedly hit, or while he's allegedly being hit. In other words, it's much harder to gauge how necessary Stevie's actions were. It appears to me as if Stevie's giving it some (if it is Stevie), that he used a degree of force that exceeds what could be considered reasonable for the purposes of arguing self-defence.

Well, that's a bit more dam.ning, isn't it?  What's this about the CCTV evidence being inadmissable though?

Not sure, mate. You'll have to ask Lakes on that one.

Yeah ask lakes and he'll tell us something bigs going down tomorrow!

[Number 9]

[NANNY RED]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8161848.stm

An i agree with Greavesie  theres not a chance in hell his brief would of let him plead not guilty if he didnt think he was gonna walk, His brief will have seen all the eviodence against him before the trail even started,

[Bammo]

We've only heard the prosecution's side of it so far. There was lots of flowery language involved. Let's face it, if a professional boxer got 3 well aimed uppercuts in they'd expect their opponent to get more than a chipped tooth. Even then, the chipped tooth could have come from the elbow.

We've no idea what was said wither and that makes a huge difference. If the DJ was pleading to be left alone and not hit then it's much worse than if he was threatening to break Gerrard's knees.

The legal experts on here will know more about this but I'm pretty sure that threatening and abusive language can be classed as affray. It's can be taken seriously as provocation and I'd bet that's a big factor in Stevie's lawyer's case.

[bigmick]

I don't think the CCTV is admissable to be honest. I've seen CCTV and been in quite a few incidents very similar to this in my previous occupation, and unless the CCTV is really clear it isn't worth anything. This isn't even slightly clear so it's irrelevent. For all we know someone could have pushed Gerrard from behind causing him to think he was being attacked, the guy could have told him in conversation that he had a knife and would use it if he had to, the guy could have kicked Gerrard in the b0ll0cks out of view of the camera, the guy could have spat at Gerrard, the guy could have told Gerrard he was black belt in Karate and Gerrard could have been concerned he was about to attack him etc etc etc etc.

The CCTV doesn't even show clearly that the bloke wasn't aiming punches at Gerrard and his mates.

Now, all that sid we all know what happened because we live in the real world. I wasn't there, but take it from me, THIS is what happened.

Stevie tells one of his mates about a song which is out that he really likes "it's boss" etc. The fella hasn't heard it, so Stevie goes and asks the DJ gadgie for the controller ("here y'are lad" etc etc). DJ gadgie is actually a part time c... in his spare time, and decides to give it Charlie big spud and fecks him off. Stevie goes back to his mates, but now the disagreement isn't about the music, it's about the pride. Probs one of his mates has a wee laugh at the situation whcih winds him up more.

Couple opf minutes later, Stevie approaches the fella and tells him there's no need to be such a c... about the whole thing. Lad gets gobby, and there's a bit of finger pointing with lots of sentences which start with "I'll fecking tell you this for free fella.....". Stevies mate comes over, the inevitable "leave it Stevie it ain't worth it mate", followed by a bit of "ave a bit a that you c..." with the elbow. Manc DJ jumps off his chair and swings, and Stevie and his mate "pummel" him for about five seconds, before being dragged away. ****


**** Enclosed space "pummel" (the definition). You haven't got room to swing, and annoyed as you are you are you don't want to make a c... of yourself in your best shirt and trousers by falling on your erse. So you kind of pin your elbows into your side and do a kind of rat-a-tat-tat GYBS style series of uppercuts, (when you've had a few bevvies you figure it'll make you look like someone who did boxing as a kid). You figure that long after the incident is forgotten, people will still be talking about your "fast hands" and the like. The victim of this "pummelling" invariably adopts a crouched forward "Frazieresque" covering up technique with his head buried in behind his bent arm and elbows. If you ever punched anyone on the elbow you'll know it hurts (you the puncher) so you quickly think "feck that" and resign yourself to cuffing him around the lugholes by slightly hooking your uppercuts.

The net result of the said "pummelling" is that the bloke ends up without a mark on him, the "pummellers" end up out of breath, both parties can reasonably claim that they had the better of things, and nobody mentions fast hands again. It's actually a very reasonable way of sorting out music related disputes in licenced premises. Where the numbers are more even (one on one works best) they can even take it in turns to pummel each other. You pummel him for a bit then go all Joe Frazier while he has his turn.

Anyway then Stevie gets dragged away, there's a bit of "lets just fecking do one!" and it all blows over.


Quick tip: Don't ever attempt the "pummel" outside a kebab shop, you'll just look silly. Here, you need to be more expansive. The "pummel' is more you playing away in Europe, keep it tight sort of approach, whereas outside the kebab shop you need to be "at Home against Hull" in your approach. If you can utilize a council waste bin in some form or another during your display all the better. Remember, space is your friend. If you're losing, run away then turn back when you're a safe distance clear and give it the old "come on then" wiht the old beckoning with both hands dangling at your side routine. If the bloke isn't prepared to go through the ritual of sprinting the fifty yards in between you and him only to see you run off again, you can tell your mates he "chickened out" and that you "would have had him easy".

I have observed these mating techniques from my front room window of pubs over high streets for many years. It's far better than life on earth or any of that public school nonsense.