Liverpool FC Forum

[Judge]

"A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. "

he hit him 3 times after he had already been hit and that is why it will not come under the Self Defence law.

you have the right to subdue a would be attacker, therefore you can hit them more than once, as long as the attack does not go onto to include excessive force.

3 hits is not excessive imo.

sustained attack or a barrage of blows would be considered excessive.

my old man used to say, ''if you hit someone hard enough on the nose, so as to break it, then you are more likely to subdue them with one blow''. He also said always get the first punch in, if its likely to end in blows!!

[RUSHIE#9]

From what I've seen of the cra.p CCTV pics I think the explanation given by Stevie that he didn't know the guy had already been hit is plausible and the guy does seem to head in what I take to be Stevie G's direction. Amongst all of the shennanigans ( ) it's quite easy to put yorself in Stevie's position and take the guy's movements as threatening.
The one bit that is a little suspect for me is the guy saying he didn't realise it wasn't Gerrard that had elbowed him first. Gerrard and him had been separated by Gerrards mate and then came the blow.

[roberto green]

Steven Gerrard has been given a hefty £50,000 fine and 80 hours community service helping local disadvantaged footballers. He starts at Everton next week

[tonyeh]

I don't know how anyone could draw a conclusion from the CCTV footage.

[Greavesie]

"A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. "

he hit him 3 times after he had already been hit and that is why it will not come under the Self Defence law.

you have the right to subdue a would be attacker, therefore you can hit them more than once, as long as the attack does not go onto to include excessive force.

3 hits is not excessive imo.

sustained attack or a barrage of blows would be considered excessive.

my old man used to say, ''if you hit someone hard enough on the nose, so as to break it, then you are more likely to subdue them with one blow''. He also said always get the first punch in, if its likely to end in blows!!

three punches, one hit

The fact that Stevie may have been drunk is irrelevant

[stmichael]

What time is the jury due to come to a verdict?

[Greavesie]

they say it was a 5 v 1 but weren't all the others charged with different offences? If they were all said to be part of the same attack wouldn't they have charged Gerrard with being a party to affray or some other?

oh Mick it said in the reports that the summing up was yesterday so the verdict should be sometime next week I should think

correct me if I'm wrong

[lakes10]

There's a couple of points we don't know for certain though Lakes.

How do we know the DJ didn't use threatening language? He claims "I was asking him how he would react if somebody came up to him and wanted to take something off him in a manner I found to be rude," Does anyone believe that was the wording he used on the night? I'd imagine there were a few more explicit words in there. For all we know he said "f off or i'll break you legs".

He didn't hit him 3 times though Lakes, he swung 3 times and only connected once so it may still count as self defence under reasonable force.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think Gerrard and the DJ were mouthing off to each other. Gerrard's mate wades in with an elbow and it kicks off. Neither Gerrard or the DJ knew about the elbow in their initial statements. I think the DJ reckons Gerrard's hit him so starts getting up ready to fight. Gerrard reckons the DJ is about to hit him so gets first strike in.

Just out of interest, for those of you saying he deserved it 'cause he's a Manc do bitters deserve it too?

he said he acted due to the guy standing up to him and "looked" like he was going to hit him.

you are right he only hit him once, just as well he better on target for us.

[destro]

I don't know how anyone could draw a conclusion from the CCTV footage.

I agree,from what I have seen the only physical contact came from the elbow, there was far to many people at the bar to say what happened once the guy went down from that. It looked just as much like people tried to then help him up more than wading in on him. The lad that threw the elbow should have been charged and that should have been the end of it but he obviously isnt as high profile as Stevie is and wouldnt be able to pay out as much in compensation.

If you are in a heated debate with someone stood directly infront of you and you get an elbow to the head then you must know that unless that person has arms like Crouch's legs it is impossible for him to elbow you in the face and you not know if it was him or not ?

He claims, during the free for all that followed he witnessed the speed and precision of the punches thrown by Stevie  but missed who elbowed him in the face at the start 

I will be more gob smacked than the bloke if the outcome of all this is anything more than a bit of compensation

[lakes10]

"A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly Force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force. "

he hit him 3 times after he had already been hit and that is why it will not come under the Self Defence law.

you have the right to subdue a would be attacker, therefore you can hit them more than once, as long as the attack does not go onto to include excessive force.

3 hits is not excessive imo.

sustained attack or a barrage of blows would be considered excessive.

my old man used to say, ''if you hit someone hard enough on the nose, so as to break it, then you are more likely to subdue them with one blow''. He also said always get the first punch in, if its likely to end in blows!!

the BIG point is the guy had already been hit twice before SG hit him, there is no way the court would see him as still being a danger to him.

due to the fact the guy had already been hit the self defence dont stand up. sorry.

i would love him to get off with this but i dont think he will.

[lakes10]

they say it was a 5 v 1 but weren't all the others charged with different offences? If they were all said to be part of the same attack wouldn't they have charged Gerrard with being a party to affray or some other?

oh Mick it said in the reports that the summing up was yesterday so the verdict should be sometime next week I should think

correct me if I'm wrong

4 of them have been charged with affray and i think 3 of the have said they have done it.

[lakes10]

I don't know how anyone could draw a conclusion from the CCTV footage.

I agree,from what I have seen the only physical contact came from the elbow, there was far to many people at the bar to say what happened once the guy went down from that. It looked just as much like people tried to then help him up more than wading in on him. The lad that threw the elbow should have been charged and that should have been the end of it but he obviously isnt as high profile as Stevie is and wouldnt be able to pay out as much in compensation.

If you are in a heated debate with someone stood directly infront of you and you get an elbow to the head then you must know that unless that person has arms like Crouch's legs it is impossible for him to elbow you in the face and you not know if it was him or not ?

He claims, during the free for all that followed he witnessed the speed and precision of the punches thrown by Stevie  but missed who elbowed him in the face at the start 

I will be more gob smacked than the bloke if the outcome of all this is anything more than a bit of compensation

we are lucky that the cctv of him with a upside down bottle in his had was not used. the point that it was not used i think was due to him falling over by the stand and looked no danger to anyone, this was said to happen 2 mins after he had hit the guy and once his friends had pulled him off.

[destro]

FOOTBALLER Steven Gerrard was moved to tears in court as he heard a glowing tribute to him by legend Kenny Dalglish yesterday.

Moments earlier, the Liverpool skipper had told a jury how sorry he was for attacking a man in a bar room brawl after a row about choosing music to play.

Giving evidence at the city's crown court, tears welled up in his eyes as ex-Reds player and manager Dalglish praised both him and his family.

Gerrard, 29, who denies affray, insists he attacked Marcus McGee in self-defence during a fight at a pub in Southport, Merseyside, last December.

After almost two hours of questioning, a statement from Scotland hero Dalglish was read to the court.

In it, he said: "I have known Steven Gerrard since he came to Liverpool FC as a 14-year-old.

"He is not the archetypal footballer. He does not seek publicity.

"Despite the fame and obvious wealth that comes with his level of success, he has not forgotten his roots."

Gerrard looked emotional as the statement continued: "I believe those values have been instilled in him by his mum and dad, who I have also met and who are lovely people.

"He is a very respectful young man. He is a humble man and his personality could be described as quiet."

Describing his movements leading up to the fight at the Lounge Inn, Gerrard said he and a group of friends arrived at the bar at 10.28pm on December 29.

He was celebrating his side's 5-1 victory over Newcastle United earlier in the day. When asked what his mood was he replied: "I was very happy."

The star admitted to police downing bottles of Budweiser and a single shot drink during the night. His barrister, John Kelsey-Fry, asked him: "I want to know what effect that drink you had taken had on you."

He replied: "I certainly knew I had had a drink but I was in control of how I felt, my actions and my surroundings."

Gerrard and McGee clashed over who should decide what music should be played in the bar.

Staff had asked McGee, a regular, to act as DJ for the night.

Gerrard claimed McGee said to him: "You are not putting no f****** music on in here."

He said he noticed McGee had gone to sit on a bar stool and claimed: "He was staring at me."

Kelsey-Fry asked Gerrard: "What advice did you get from your mates? He replied: "Basically, to ignore him."

Kelsey-Fry then asked him: "Did you ignore it and leave it?" Gerrard said: "No." And he said he went over to speak to McGee.

He said: "I couldn't understand why he was so aggressive towards me.

"I asked Marcus what was the problem with the music machine and why he treated me like that.

"Very quickly, he came off the bar stool and was in my face, quite lively." Kelsey Fry asked: "Why did you deliver a blow to Marcus McGee?" He replied: "To defend myself."

Gerrard added: "I remember raising my left arm, swinging my left arm, hitting the side of his head with my wrist and grabbing the back of his jumper as he moved towards me.

"I remember swinging my right arm, punching him, two or three times."

One of Gerrard's friends elbowed McGee, who reacted.

Gerrard added: "I am certainly mistaken in thinking he was coming towards me to throw punches at me."

The court saw CCTV footage of Gerrard apparently using his right arm to punch his victim three times.

He was asked to demonstrate how he would deliver an upper-cut punch like those he landed on McGee.

The 6ft 1in footballer swung his right arm slowly upwards once.

David Turner QC, prosecuting, asked him: "Is that really how you did it?" The star replied: "Yes".

Turner then asked: "Now you have seen the CCTV footage, are you sickened by what you did?"

Gerrard responded: "I'm certainly sorry for it."

Turner asked him how he felt when McGee refused to let him pick a song.

Gerrard answered: "I just couldn't understand why someone who didn't work in the Lounge is turning me down to put my music on when I had permission off someone who works there."

The barrister continued: "You thought he was a no-mark?" Gerrard, who said he may have called McGee a "p****", responded: "I did not think he was a no-mark because I did not know him."

The prosecutor added: "You were hoping he might lose his rag, take a swing at you and then you could thump him.

Gerrard responded: "Certainly not."

The jury are expected to retire today.

[we all dream...]

I don't know how anyone could draw a conclusion from the CCTV footage.

I agree,from what I have seen the only physical contact came from the elbow, there was far to many people at the bar to say what happened once the guy went down from that. It looked just as much like people tried to then help him up more than wading in on him. The lad that threw the elbow should have been charged and that should have been the end of it but he obviously isnt as high profile as Stevie is and wouldnt be able to pay out as much in compensation.

If you are in a heated debate with someone stood directly infront of you and you get an elbow to the head then you must know that unless that person has arms like Crouch's legs it is impossible for him to elbow you in the face and you not know if it was him or not ?

He claims, during the free for all that followed he witnessed the speed and precision of the punches thrown by Stevie  but missed who elbowed him in the face at the start 

I will be more gob smacked than the bloke if the outcome of all this is anything more than a bit of compensation

we are lucky that the cctv of him with a upside down bottle in his had was not used. the point that it was not used i think was due to him falling over by the stand and looked no danger to anyone, this was said to happen 2 mins after he had hit the guy and once his friends had pulled him off.

Are you trying to say that our captain was a little worse for wear on a nigh out after hammering Newcastle 5-1 with him scoring 2 and playing an absolute blinder, oh andit was a night off over the christmas period??

Good heavens above, sack him now.

I feel sorry for him, he's had a bit to drink, got himself into a bit of bother and had a bit of a punch up, his mates have waded in and started a bit of a brawl. It happenes all of the time. Yes he shouldn't be in those situations but what I love about Gerrard and Carragher is that they are northern (for me cos I'm not scouse) lads who enjoy a pint and a bit of fun.
They are bound to attract attention and do well not to get in more scrapes. If I was in a bar when he was there and someone was having a pop at him I'd certainly give the fella the old 1 2 so that Stevie didn't have to. We don't want him getting hurt now do we...

[lakes10]

I don't know how anyone could draw a conclusion from the CCTV footage.

I agree,from what I have seen the only physical contact came from the elbow, there was far to many people at the bar to say what happened once the guy went down from that. It looked just as much like people tried to then help him up more than wading in on him. The lad that threw the elbow should have been charged and that should have been the end of it but he obviously isnt as high profile as Stevie is and wouldnt be able to pay out as much in compensation.

If you are in a heated debate with someone stood directly infront of you and you get an elbow to the head then you must know that unless that person has arms like Crouch's legs it is impossible for him to elbow you in the face and you not know if it was him or not ?

He claims, during the free for all that followed he witnessed the speed and precision of the punches thrown by Stevie  but missed who elbowed him in the face at the start 

I will be more gob smacked than the bloke if the outcome of all this is anything more than a bit of compensation

we are lucky that the cctv of him with a upside down bottle in his had was not used. the point that it was not used i think was due to him falling over by the stand and looked no danger to anyone, this was said to happen 2 mins after he had hit the guy and once his friends had pulled him off.

Are you trying to say that our captain was a little worse for wear on a nigh out after hammering Newcastle 5-1 with him scoring 2 and playing an absolute blinder, oh andit was a night off over the christmas period??

Good heavens above, sack him now.

I feel sorry for him, he's had a bit to drink got himself into a bit of bother, had a bit of a bunch up, his mates have waded in and started a bit of a brawl. It happenes all of the time. Yes he shouldn't be in those situations but what I love about Gerrard and Carragher is that they are northern (for me cos I'm not scousen) lads who enjoy a pint and a bit of fun. They are bound to attract attention and do well not to get in more scrapes. If I was in a bar when he was there and someone was having a pop at him I'd certainly give the fella the old 1 2 so the Stevie didn't have to. We don't want him getting hurt now do we...

put it this way, when i have a drink i dont feel like hitting anyone.