Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

Steven Gerrard is unvaluable due to emotional reasons, but, IMHO, from a football point of view too, his value is inmense for a manager, he can play any position of the pitch bar goalie at an impressive level. Probably the most complete player I've seen in 20 years both in my league and the english one.

In a rumour mill thread a mate of the forum has posted a list of assists in which Gerrard is the leader with 23 assists.

When 3 years ago some people almost found an insult to play Gerrard in the right, he came up with lots of goals.

Yesteryear we had many members complaining about Gerrard is not a second striker, and gave stick to Rafa for it. Yet this season Gerrard has scored plenty of goals and is the leader of the last pass table.

So, do the people of newkit still think that this adventures of playing Gerrard as second striker or in the right are still a bad idea, or does this facts of goals and assists indicate that actually Gerrard's best position is almost any position?

I'd love to hear updated opinions about this. Stu for instance was always traditionally hostile to the idea of playing Gerrard behind a lone striker.

[greenbyname_redbynature]

Steven Gerrard's best position for me will always be a central midfielder. bombing on from the middle. he'd still score plenty of goals, he'd still assist plenty, but more important he is one of the few players in the world who can play that 60 yard ball out to the wing and still make the ground up to get in the box.

the fact that the fella is the most complete player this club has ever seen IMO, means he can play near enough anywhere on a football pitch and be fantastic. he's played the holding role for his country on numerous occasions and didn't look out of place. he's played as a forward for england and scored (think it was against hungry) he's played on the right for Liverpool and scored 20 plus goals. he's played just in behind a lone forward and still been nominated for player of the year.

but for me his best position in the centre of the park where he can pretty much do as he wants. he can sit deep and dictate play or he can bomb on forward and score or he can do the box to box work (bit of both).

[account deleted by request]

Steven Gerrard's best position for me will always be a central midfielder. bombing on from the middle. he'd still score plenty of goals, he'd still assist plenty, but more important he is one of the few players in the world who can play that 60 yard ball out to the wing and still make the ground up to get in the box.

the fact that the fella is the most complete player this club has ever seen IMO, means he can play near enough anywhere on a football pitch and be fantastic. he's played the holding role for his country on numerous occasions and didn't look out of place. he's played as a forward for england and scored (think it was against hungry) he's played on the right for Liverpool and scored 20 plus goals. he's played just in behind a lone forward and still been nominated for player of the year.

but for me his best position in the centre of the park where he can pretty much do as he wants. he can sit deep and dictate play or he can bomb on forward and score or he can do the box to box work (bit of both).

Top post John (Bill  )

The main worry I have is we have become so dependent on Gerrard to create (and score) most of our goals. I mentioned in another thread that Rafa said he would rather have 4 or 5 players scoring 10 rather than 2 scoring 20. We are now in a situation where 2 players are not only scoring most of our goals, but we are reliant on the same 2 players making them as well.

I think the formation that Rafa has played this season was more one of necessity rather than choice. Our other forwards have hardly broken any pots, so why not concentrate play around the two players who are a class act?

I would prefer next season a second striker rather than Gerrard and a return to midfield for Stevie. I think if we are to compete and beat the top sides we need more options than we have, and I still believe against the top sides, playing Torres as a loan striker he not only gets isolated but takes too much punishment.

I think Gerrard without doubt is the most complete footballer in the world, whether he is better than the rest in any one position may be more debateable.

A return to CM will no doubt reduce the number of goals and assists he scores but add the reduced number to the ones that a top class second striker would contribute and I am pretty sure they would add up to more than say Alonso and Gerrard have this season (sorry Sabre    ), with the added benefit that it would add a third string to our bow. Throw in a top winger as well and we are starting to look like a title challenging team.

[Leonmc0708]

Gerrard scores 23 goals from right midfield and 21 (to date) from the hole and people still maintain he is best in the middle.

Steven Gerrard is best when he is not shckled with the responsibility of playing in the middle of the park and is free to create, suypply and do what ever the fu.ck he likes - FACT

[account deleted by request]

Gerrard scores 23 goals from right midfield and 21 (to date) from the hole and people still maintain he is best in the middle.

Steven Gerrard is best when he is not shckled with the responsibility of playing in the middle of the park and is free to create, suypply and do what ever the fu.ck he likes - FACT

Then play him in a free role behind our new creative second striker and Torres then!

[bigmick]

As already stated Gerrard can play anywhere centrally or on the right side. We can guess although we can't be totally certain that he isn't much to write home about in goal, and we know from experience despite Rafa's occasional attempts to check if its still is the case, that he is awful at left midfield and should never play there.

We know that if we get the captain on the ball in the final third, pretty much against anybody he will score goals, make goals and cause goals. In short, if Gerrard gets on the ball in the final third with any sort of frequency we will win the match against pretty much anybody. Added to that, he is a great tackler as well, has a fantastic engine and just happens to be good in the air too. He doesn't shout and gesticulate enough for some people, nor does he wrestle people to the ground who are trying to argue with referees. Neither of these are faults though IMHO which should diminish the fact that he is our best player and that as Liverpool fans we will remember him as one of our all-time greats.

So where do you play him? Well like all things in football it depends on who is around him. I liked him right side because it's much harder for teams to do a Makeleli on him, but having said that they will set a screener in front so you still have to get the ball to him. Back in the halcyon days of Alonso when he used to be able to get his head up and see a pass without the opposition centre forward taking the ball off him, it worked beautifully. Sissoko broke up the play, gave it to Alonso who pinged it to Gerrard who did something with it. Even with screeners such was the vision and the accuracy of the Spaniards passing that it was very hard to keep Gerrard out of the game. Whichever left winger he played against was nullified, spending more time going backwards than forwards as Gerrard scored 23 goals or whatever it was from the right wing. People wondered if Steve finnan was the most solid right-back we'd ever had, as he barely even saw a left winger all season never mind got close enough to tackle one.

Having being unsuccessful at screening him out though, those pesky coaches began to look further back the food chain at Xabi. If we can stop HIM then we can stop Gerrard they felt. If we can box Alonso in with our most offensive midfielder and our centre forward snapping at his heels, Gerrard won't get the ball, and so it proved. Around this time, people began to really talk about Sissoko's lack of passing acumen. It suddenly wasn't enough to be the most destructive ball-winning midfielder in World football (which he was at the time and probably still is for all I know), he now had to be accurate enough to find Gerrard (which he wasn't) or skilled enough to carry the ball into a position where he could find Gerrard (which he isn't). Suddenly, fans and coaches alike began to notice that Gerrard was prone to "go a wandering" looking for the ball and leaving a huge gap down our right side. It would also have been around this time I would guess where suddenly old age began to catch up with Finnan and he miraculously began to look vulnerable. "He doesn't even get forward and put crosses in like he used to" fans pointed out, or at least they did when they weren't bemoaning the lack of passing ability Sissoko had.

All of which goes to prove that balance in a football team is vital. If one part of the machine starts going awry, others do too. I suppose it also goes to prove that it's all Alonso's fault (just kidding).


Anyway I've kind of gone off the subject so I'll come back to the very good question later.

[account deleted by request]

Cracking post Mick

[Leonmc0708]

As already stated Gerrard can play anywhere centrally or on the right side. We can guess although we can't be totally certain that he isn't much to write home about in goal, and we know from experience despite Rafa's occasional attempts to check if its still is the case, that he is awful at left midfield and should never play there.

We know that if we get the captain on the ball in the final third, pretty much against anybody he will score goals, make goals and cause goals. In short, if Gerrard gets on the ball in the final third with any sort of frequency we will win the match against pretty much anybody. Added to that, he is a great tackler as well, has a fantastic engine and just happens to be good in the air too. He doesn't shout and gesticulate enough for some people, nor does he wrestle people to the ground who are trying to argue with referees. Neither of these are faults though IMHO which should diminish the fact that he is our best player and that as Liverpool fans we will remember him as one of our all-time greats.

So where do you play him? Well like all things in football it depends on who is around him. I liked him right side because it's much harder for teams to do a Makeleli on him, but having said that they will set a screener in front so you still have to get the ball to him. Back in the halcyon days of Alonso when he used to be able to get his head up and see a pass without the opposition centre forward taking the ball off him, it worked beautifully. Sissoko broke up the play, gave it to Alonso who pinged it to Gerrard who did something with it. Even with screeners such was the vision and the accuracy of the Spaniards passing that it was very hard to keep Gerrard out of the game. Whichever left winger he played against was nullified, spending more time going backwards than forwards as Gerrard scored 23 goals or whatever it was from the right wing. People wondered if Steve finnan was the most solid right-back we'd ever had, as he barely even saw a left winger all season never mind got close enough to tackle one.

Having being unsuccessful at screening him out though, those pesky coaches began to look further back the food chain at Xabi. If we can stop HIM then we can stop Gerrard they felt. If we can box Alonso in with our most offensive midfielder and our centre forward snapping at his heels, Gerrard won't get the ball, and so it proved. Around this time, people began to really talk about Sissoko's lack of passing acumen. It suddenly wasn't enough to be the most destructive ball-winning midfielder in World football (which he was at the time and probably still is for all I know), he now had to be accurate enough to find Gerrard (which he wasn't) or skilled enough to carry the ball into a position where he could find Gerrard (which he isn't). Suddenly, fans and coaches alike began to notice that Gerrard was prone to "go a wandering" looking for the ball and leaving a huge gap down our right side. It would also have been around this time I would guess where suddenly old age began to catch up with Finnan and he miraculously began to look vulnerable. "He doesn't even get forward and put crosses in like he used to" fans pointed out, or at least they did when they weren't bemoaning the lack of passing ability Sissoko had.

All of which goes to prove that balance in a football team is vital. If one part of the machine starts going awry, others do too. I suppose it also goes to prove that it's all Alonso's fault (just kidding).


Anyway I've kind of gone off the subject so I'll come back to the very good question later.

you ARE Rafa Benitez and I claim my five pounds.

[bigmick]

Anyhow, got meself a new cuppa coffee now so back to it. Often people talk about "building a team around a player" and you can do that at lesser clubs but not at big ones. At bigger clubs with better players, it can turn into "building a team to accomodate" a player. I wonder for instance whether the new system is an example of this, with Xabi, Kuyt and Babel being the chief beneficiaries.

Alonso is obviously one of our better players, and if Gerrard were to play in a central midfield two with our best holding midfielder, then clearly (well it's clear IMHO anyway) Xabi wouldn't play as first choice. Kuyt wouldn't play as a first choice striker for anybody in the top half of the Premiership I wouldn't have thought, although he does bring something to the dynamic of the team when he plays. Babel probably isn't ready as a striker yet (although I must say I'm more upbeat about him than I was a couple of months ago) and as our other left sided players are either injured, not really motivated, sh!te or an all three combo he fairly instantly became our preferred option there.

So the new system, while accomodating three of our higher transfer players is a bit of a mish mash which we kind of stumbled on in a way. If we are going to stick with it, it would then depend on howmuch money we've got as to where Gerrards best postion is IMHO. If for instance Hicks the fat c... is going to sanction only the signing of Barry, along with Deggan and various other freebie "options" and "possibilities" then Gerrards best position si on the right. Why? Because barry will replace Babel down the left, Babel will move infield and replace Gerrard who will move to the right and replace Kuyt. Job done, and the team IMHO would improve by a fair bit as a result of the changes.

If on the other hand you have a blanker cheque, I would advocate playing Barry left side in a 4-4-2, buying a decent right sided midfielder, left and right backs, and a top class second striker. If for instance you picked up a Micah Richards and some top class Johnny foreigner for the other side, Joe Cole for the right wing and  Berbatovie kind of player for upside Torres, I'd drop gerrard into central midfield with Masherano and ask him to play box to box. That team would be a big improvement on what we currently have i should think.


Short answer to the question "where should Steven Gerrard play" if you're one of those people who reads the last page of a book before reading the rest. It depends

[Number 9]

Firstly Saint we have for the first time since the prem began 6 players hitting 10 goals or more this season.(in all competitions)
So Rafa has his wish you raised!

To answer Sabres question which is a tricky one I like Gerrard where he has been playing since we adopted the 4-2-3-1 formation.In my opinion he has been expressing himself far more than ever and can play more on instinct than anywhere else he has been placed!
In C/M he is required to be a lot more disciplined as central midfielders in a 4-4-2 have a duty to protect the back 4 regardless if they are attacking or defencive minded,the bottom line is if they are upfield when a facing a counter attack they have left a hole,getting back is always gonna be in their mind so in a way this extra duty restrains the player in going forward as much as they would perhaps like!

I just feel that in the 4-2-3-1 Gerrard only has to look one way.With 2 defencive midfielders behind him and a 4 man defence behind them he can almost forget about what is behind him and concentrate on doing what he does best.
Doing damage,setting goals up and putting the ball in the net,running at defences,forcing errors and generally making a nuisance of himself!
Personally i think we will stick with the 4-2-3-1 for the reason that Torres has not really ever played in a 4-4-2,no point asking the lad to adapt now when he too is expressing himself in a role he was made for.

As for the right?Gerrard spent a season on the right on the teamsheet and on the kick off.After that he was all over the pitch as usual and was by no means stuck to the right,his goal tally that season is proof of that,you dont score 20 odd goals from the by line!
I hope Rafa keeps Gerrard where he has been playing and i have a very funny feeling if you asked Steven Gerrard he would say the same.His link up play at times with Torres has shown signs of becoming almost telepathic,not bad for a first season playing together.To break their partnership up now when it can only get better would be utter madness!
I hope to watch them both torture defences together for many years to come!

[Number 9]

FFS Mick answer the question lad!!

You should have been an MP!!

[account deleted by request]

i think Rafa was talking about League goals - not all goals Barry

Pretty sad reading once you get past Gerrard mate.

Torres          23
Gerrard         11
Crouch           5
Voronin          4
Babel             4
Benayoun       4
Kuyt              3

[Number 9]

i think Rafa was talking about League goals - not all goals Barry

Pretty sad reading once you get past Gerrard mate.

Torres          23
Gerrard         11
Crouch           5
Voronin          4
Babel             4
Benayoun       4
Kuyt              3

Take Voronin out of that mate and all have hit 10 or more!

A goal is a goal is a goal,FA cup,Champions League,EPL, they all count!
Thats they way i look at it anyway,it looks better for the players in question!

[LFC2007]

He's a traditional central midfielder and ideally that's where he'd play week in week out. He's played on the right and as a second striker at different periods to suit the needs of the team, and as a way of masking our weaker areas. At the time of playing on the right, Alonso was in more dynamic and creative form, Sissoko was outstanding, and we didn't have a solid RW - so it made sense to play him on the right, even if it masked our lack of a proper RW. His shifting to a second striker role is to suit the needs of the team again. Except this time, Rafa considers it more pertinent for the needs of the team to play with two DCM's who are both exceptionally talented, as opposed to a second striker, an area in which we aren't blessed with great ability.

The main conundrum I foresee is playing Gerrard in a 4-4-2 in the centre. It would proably put an end to Xabi's career with us, and it would then be imperative for us to get a top quality second striker. It's also a conundrum in that, not many teams in recent times, have been successful in playing a 4-4-2, with two CM's, and two traditional wingers. Chelsea played with a trio, and stil do,and so do the Manc's. So it follows that I see it as unlikely that we'll ever revert to the traditional 4-4-2 on a consistent basis. There isn't really much point in channelling our transfer funds towards signing a top second striker if we're going to persist with a 4-5-1. It'd be logical to focus our spending (if we have any meaningful level of funds available), on our wider areas.

[66-1112520797]

I maintained for a long while that Gerrards best position is centrally, even after he scored a bucket load from the right. I still dont like him playing on the right, its a lot easier for teams to isolate him out there, i.e stick a fullback and a midfielder on him. Which Chelsea did in the past, and to get himself into the game Gerrard comes in to look for the ball .. naturally. But we lose shape and Finnan lost an outlet.

But I dont mind him in the 'hole'. Him and Torres have been devastating this season and for that alone its was well worth the punt. I like him there as he is more central to start off with and is almost in the mix of things, were I thought he is best positioned. Obviously in the advanced role he can at times, isolate Torres if we're being pinned back by the opposition, but hey thats what would happen to any team playing this formation.

I like him him in central midfield, and the 'hole roll too, maybe a little more the CM now   but not out wide right.