Liverpool FC Forum

[Scottbot]

I also think that the 3 of them could play together if Rafa actually was faithful to the Spanish way to understand football, for that he should play with one pure striker less, Momo and Xabi behind Gerrard who'd have a more free role, 2 attacking wingers, and a striker prefferably Kuyt.

But that option seems too revolutionary to use in England 

Don't forget Chelsea have just won 2 League Titles playing that formation Sabes so it's hardly revolutionary. Also, Rafa had his team set up with a lone front-man for much of his first season in charge. It didn't work so well (back then) and i guess that's why we see it so rarely.

[Sabre]

Fair enough, I did forget Rafa did use it at the early stages of his Anfield spell 

But then it's strange he hasn't come back to that at some point, especially if we see that Rafa doesn't bloody care about what the media says -- for instance about rotation.

I'd love to watch one of that games of 3 years ago when he tried that, since I cannot remember what were the problems, to be honest.

[Scottbot]

Just because he can play box to box doesn't mean he should; likewise rightback. Gerrard is an unstoppable force as an attacking player and the duty of the manager is to provide a platform from which he can be unleashed. It's a misnomer to suggest he's being played out of position when he's not in the centre because he really doesn't have a position. It's essentially a free role when we've got the ball; the position only becomes relevant when we haven't, but his pace and stamina allow him to get back without compromising our solidity - especially when there's a quality full back behind him like Steve Finnan. The whole point is that he can go wherever he can do most damage; hence last season he popped up all over the place and scores twenty three goals. Steven Gerrard in a free role is almost unplayable for opponents, in my opinion.

Talking sense there Saint and that pretty much echoes my own sentiments. I've been impressed with Stevie's form in the middle (and his growing partnership with Xabi) these past couple of months but i was also blown away by his performances out on the right last season. I was quite happy to see him out on the wing as it enabled both Alonso and Momo to play but based on recent form i'd like him stay where he is.

We're very lucky, last year he was the best right midfielder in the country and this season he's back doing it in the middle of the park.

I appreciate the majority of posters on here prefer to see Stevie back in the middle of the park but i'm amazed at some of the comments i read from these guys who can pretend that he HASN'T just come off his BEST season EVER playing 75% of the games on the right of midfield.

[Effes]

Stevie G is boss whether a right mid or CM - cos he's a supreme footballer.

Looking at it in a positive light - we have options when Momo is back.

We're on a great run now, but we had two great runs last season.
Let's just hope he doesn't get injured.

[Scottbot]

Fair enough, I did forget Rafa did use it at the early stages of his Anfield spell 

But then it's strange he hasn't come back to that at some point, especially if we see that Rafa doesn't bloody care about what the media says -- for instance about rotation.

I'd love to watch one of that games of 3 years ago when he tried that, since I cannot remember what were the problems, to be honest.

I guess the problem at the time was personnel. Baros was a mobile forward who ran the channels and kept the centre-backs busy but he wasn't the best at holding the ball and didn't really use the ball very intelligently. Crouch also played as lone front-man on a few occasions last season in some of the bigger games and although he can hold the ball up and wait for support he is a bit of a sitting duck. He's not particularly mobile and two centre-halves can deal with him fairly easily when they don't have to worry about another forward running beyond to latch onto his flick-ons. Strange thing is that we now have a striker who has all the attributes to play the role. Kuyt is strong, mobile, can run all-day, retains possession, has a good football brain, turns on a six-pence and has just enough pace to keep most centre-backs honest. However we've seen that his natural game is to drop off the front man, face on and do a lot of good work outside the box. I suspect he is disciplined enough to play the role and imagine he will get the chance in the away leg against Barca with Stevie playing off him and Momo back in the middle.

[66-1112520797]

I appreciate the majority of posters on here prefer to see Stevie back in the middle of the park but i'm amazed at some of the comments i read from these guys who can pretend that he HASN'T just come off his BEST season EVER playing 75% of the games on the right of midfield

Dont forget though he was tried in the same position earlier THIS season, granted the team weren't playing well and he certainly wasnt playing well out there either. When the chips are down and he's stuck out wide that position for me weighs up the cons of it IMO.

His game and style of football is better suited to the " box to box " midfileder IMO. I've said many times before why it is and I dont really want to go down that road again.

But when I think of free role players like C.Ronaldo, Kaka, Deco, and Ronaldiniho. They're all plays who have more intent on attackin teams. More skill and trickery than Gerrard. Thats not to say his game can't be played like that. But his game has the discipline, the ability and desire to track back and win a tackle or two. The ability to inspire his teamates when his in he middle and to drive them on. His attitude changes when moved from the right to the middle. Didnt you see the way he rallies the players around him on against Chelsea, the fight and belief is back there when he's in the middle.

And maybe its no coincidence atall that we've become the inform tem in the league, since he's been moved back into the center.

Sorry gone off topic, back to him having the discipline 

[Sabre]

But when I think of free role players like C.Ronaldo, Kaka, Deco, and Ronaldiniho. They're all plays who have more intent on attackin teams. More skill and trickery than Gerrard. Thats not to say his game can't be played like that. But his game has the discipline, the ability and desire to track back and win a tackle or two. The ability to inspire his teamates when his in he middle and to drive them on. His attitude changes when moved from the right to the middle. Didnt you see the way he rallies the players around him on against Chelsea, the fight and belief is back there when he's in the middle.

And maybe its no coincidence atall that we've become the inform tem in the league, since he's been moved back into the center.

Sorry gone off topic, back to him having the discipline

On topic bit: You can be disciplined, you can be willing to track back to win a couple of tackles, and yet you can put your back men in danger all at the same time.

I remember some games that we were 0-0 away like the Everton game and dominating. A player like Gerrard has a great teamwork  ratio, but a player like Gerrard has hunger of goals, and when we recover a ball he likes to run alongside the teammate that has the ball to give him an option of passing. Gerrard likes a lot stepping in the area and his 23 goals last season are a proof of it. So even if his work rate is generous and he's willing to defend always and to run, his natural hunger has exposed us sometimes and that lead to counterattacks.

Cráp, I don't remember specific games now but I do remember the Everton game. We played some good football in that game even if we were slagging the team afterwards, but we didn't score first, and the bástards struck as hard and effectively.

This last games we have scored first and we have seen a Gerrard that prevents of taking some risk for the benefit of the team, and that's nice. I must say that natural hunger is a nice feature of him, it's just that the coach have to bear that in mind. If you play with 2 attacking wingers, 2 strikers and you add Gerrard's hunger, that will mean problems for Alonso and Carra at some point.

But that doesn't mean he can't defend or that he doesn't defend! it's just that we have to back him up when he steps in the box, IMHO.

[66-1112520797]

But that doesn't mean he can't defend or that he doesn't defend! it's just that we have to back him up when he steps in the box, IMHO.

Most central midfielder partnerships work like that though. Fabregas and Gilberto, Carrick and Scholes, maybe even Lampard and Essein. And recently Gerrard has shown his intelligence and timing of when to go forward and when not to. Because his partnership with Alonso has had the time to bear an understanding we are now reaping the rewards because of it IMO and will continue to do so.

[112-1077774096]

ok but i never quite said that sissoko doesnt work in the middle, the point i am aiming at is that we perform better with gerrard in the middle, and gerrard also performs better there. this is my opinion. sissoko is a great player, i cant criticise him, but i feel that when he is in the team gerrard is pushed somewhere where he is less effective.

i know some will disagree with me but thats great, what a dilema to have, where should we play one of the worlds best players

I find it incredible how short people's memories are. Sissoko was one of the finds of last season, and one of very few players to show class during our poor start to the season (along with Agger.) Now he's injured it seems like people are determined to pin our improvement down to some obvious change and for a lot of people it seems to be Gerrard in the centre replacing Sissoko. To which I say 'boll#cks'. If those around Sissoko (including Gerrard) had been performing to the required standard at the start of the season we would not be having this discussion now.

The timing makes me laugh as well, normally if you criticise someone or say they're too limited they can bounce right back and show you what they're all about. Momo's injured, he's in a position where he can't alter people's opinions of him with his performances. Her's like a sitting duck for anyone who wants to take shots at him.

As others have said above, football is a squad game these days, and I don't think there's many better central midfield squads in the world than

Gerrard - Alonso - Sissoko - Mascherano.

Provided he arrives of course, which I'm confident he will.

did you actually read my post, at no point do i say sissoko is not a class act .AT NO POINT.

let me say it again and hopefully this time you will read it. the problem with sissoko playing is that gerrard is forced into a position where he is less effective.

we can all make arguments that the team has improved and thats why we are playing better blah blah blah, and then i can make the argument that the team is playing better because gerrard is an a position where he can influence the game more therefore allowing the other players to concentrate on doing what they do best.

the figures speak for themselves and to suggest that its not down to gerrards change in position is wrong in my opinion, are you suggesting that his form just happened to come back when he switched, i am more liable to think his form improved because he is playing where he is at his best.

also why do people prattle on about last season, last season is last season and it really has no relevence on the current set up or performances

[stmichael]

I think these stats confirm the point though. Gerrard is either first or second in every category, including tackling, which just confirms how he's altered his game in recent weeks.

http://home.skysports.com/optasta....&cpid=8

It's  also interesting how low his cross percentage is though compared to say, Steve Finnan who's made 60 less crosses overall but 1 more that's hit a Liverpool player (and yes I do have too much time on my hands at work).

It either makes an interesting point in the whole right wing/central midfield nonsense or displays just how many of his corners hit the first man.

Wouldn't swap him for any midfielder in the world though.

[Ace Ventura]

The one thing that has come back to Gerrards game with him moving back to the middle is the bite in the tackle and determination.
He was a revelation on the right last season and nobody can deny his goals return was fantastic, but i think he lost a side to his game, the competitive battling qualities that not many have.
There were times last season that he was one on one with a player and as the attacking player people were putting in the tackles on him and he seemed to lose a bit of the physical side of his game, losing 50-50's he would never have lost 2 seasons ago.
The snap is well and truly back, as is the fire in his belly, other players are scoring goals and he is back amongst them enough now imo.
About his discipline (the reason for the thread) against Chelsea it was spot on, he did everything he could to help protect the back 4 and then in the final third produced some of the flashes that only he can do.
A very disciplined midfield performance, but there are other games that he has been too disciplined...Watford at home he sat in front of the back 4 for the first 75 minutes with Alonso getting further forward, Xabi scored a cracker that day but i still think Stevie was far too reserved.
He is still learning imo about when to break forward and when to sit, and those two games imo showed the good and bad points.

[stmichael]

The one thing that has come back to Gerrards game with him moving back to the middle is the bite in the tackle and determination.
He was a revelation on the right last season and nobody can deny his goals return was fantastic, but i think he lost a side to his game, the competitive battling qualities that not many have.
There were times last season that he was one on one with a player and as the attacking player people were putting in the tackles on him and he seemed to lose a bit of the physical side of his game, losing 50-50's he would never have lost 2 seasons ago.
The snap is well and truly back, as is the fire in his belly, other players are scoring goals and he is back amongst them enough now imo.

Of course the deciding factor in a game is goals, and Stevie has as you agree scored plenty of spectacular and important goals that have effectively decided or went some way to deciding the outcome of those games - which in effect makes them the dominant factor in deciding those games.

In the past, Keane (moreso than Souness) made his impact on games with his tackling and controling the tempo of games, Souness was similar but with more input also in the way of goals than Keane but not like Stevie.

This is where the point about those players being in great teams becomes more valid. They could not have controlled games by their assets alone if they were in ordinary sides. If Souness stayed with Middlesborough he would have won nothing. If Keane had stayed with Forest it would have been the same (I know they went down the year Utd got him but you take my meaning). The difference with Stevie is that he has won things with an ordinary Liverpool due largely (but obviously not exclusively) to his performance and input in big games, driving forward, scoring goals. He can tackle as well as Keane (maybe not as well as Souness - who could?) but his attributes are best used in other areas (going forward) I am sure you would agree?

[metalhead]

Maybe this needs a thread of its own of what im going to say about Stevie.

From what I've seen this season, this is not Steven Gerrard of last year, or of 2005, or of 2004! I think till now you can say his form has been substandered and not excellent. Yesterday against everton he was terrible! Many games his season he was quite and wasn't a huge impact on the game.

He needs to find a regular type of consistancy, like 15 games in a row, playing excellent football and showing more character.

He really p!ssed me off yesterday.

[TomDeBomb]

Yea well said metalhead he was not himself yesterday and did my head in a times but i would like to see alonso dropped as he has not been on his game this season and yesterday i thought was the worse on the pitch, it makes me wonder if gerrard is on his way out at the end of the season with us trying to capture the signiture of macherano i can certainly see someone leaving at the end of the season if that deal come off. Who knows???

[peterc1992]

What formation will we play against Barca then,4-5-1 or 4-4-2 and leave momo out or 4-4-2 and have gerrard on the right