Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

I agree with Stu on most things.

Gerrard, although a good player, ain't no messiah.

He is first and foremost a physical player. Good heavy shot. Good upper body strenght. Good pace.

But his shortcomings are also obvious. Lack of calm, composure and coolness. Lack of creativity and the "zidane factor".

He ain't the best reader of the game and he is far from able to position himself or cover as much space or close down the opponent as the best box to box or defensive midfielders are.


I don't think he is good enough to play centrally in a 4-4-2 setup. If the system has 3 midfielder the there is room for him in a attacking role. For me a player like Paul Scholes is clearly a better midfielder. Both good at going forward, defending and keeping possession while being creative.

I hope Gerrard can improve his mental attributes with age. His skill level will probably not improve as he will never have amazing control, flair or technical skill.

To sum up; I like him. But he is far from being as good as some people think.

I disagree hugely with this post.

1) He's not just good, he's exceptionally good.

2) He's an immense athlete in every respect.

3) Few players in the history of football have managed to combine the all round ability possessed by someone like Gerrard with the skill and intelligence of someone Zidane.

4) Paul Scholes can't tackle for sh!t, he has absolutely nothing on Gerrard defensively.

5) To sum up, he's been our best player for the past 5 years, he's one of our best players of all time, and one of the best English midfielders of all time.

[Number 9]

I agree with Stu on most things.

Gerrard, although a good player, ain't no messiah.

He is first and foremost a physical player. Good heavy shot. Good upper body strenght. Good pace.

But his shortcomings are also obvious. Lack of calm, composure and coolness. Lack of creativity and the "zidane factor".

He ain't the best reader of the game and he is far from able to position himself or cover as much space or close down the opponent as the best box to box or defensive midfielders are.


I don't think he is good enough to play centrally in a 4-4-2 setup. If the system has 3 midfielder the there is room for him in a attacking role. For me a player like Paul Scholes is clearly a better midfielder. Both good at going forward, defending and keeping possession while being creative.

I hope Gerrard can improve his mental attributes with age. His skill level will probably not improve as he will never have amazing control, flair or technical skill.

To sum up; I like him. But he is far from being as good as some people think.

One of the best players in world football,without a doubt one of the best LFC players of a generation and you choose to make a feeble attempt at putting him down!
Im gonna make you a challenge...try posting SOMETHING positive just once about anything to do with LFC!
He's not good enough to play centrally in a 4-4-2??That is utter tripe.He's good enough to walk into any central m/f in world football and be welcomed with open arms!
Lack of calm,composure and coolness?who are you talking about?Lee Bowyer,Joey Barton or Stephen Gerrard.He's been calm,composed and cool enough on more occasions I can remember to pull the team from brink of defeat with world class inspiring performances and come up with crucial late goals.Cool calm and composed enough to score amazing free kicks under pressure!
As for all this goes wandering and leaves a gap sh'ite?What do people want?An attacking MF that stays in one place?To attack he needs to go forward and wonderful player that he is,sadly he is just not quite good enough to keep two positions on the pitch at the same time..its not physically possible!
Then we have the Scholes is better..oh yeah and defencively too!A player that can defend whether it is from the back or in the midfield must have the ability to tackle.Great player that Scholes is he has never been able to tackle and never will.How many bookings and red cards has he had for trying to tackle...its his biggest weakness one he only makes up for and gets away with because his other attributes are so polished!
Then we have the improve his mental attributes bit?
What do you mean by that.Are we questioning a mans mental attributes,the same man in Istanbul ran up the pitch waving his arms and at the same time after scoring one of the best headers i've seen gave every fan in the stadium and at home watching on TV the hope and belief that we could do it??Not to mention what it done for his team mates on the pitch.
He has no control or technical skill as well,yeah right and i'm gonna be the next Pope!

So as you say he is not as good as some people think!


Heaven help LFC the day he hangs up his boots and we need to replace him

[bigmick]

I've got to say I agree with that. I've watched football for a long time, saw all the great Liverpool teams and I'm telling you this for absolute free, Gerrard would have got a game in any Liverpool team of the past and been one of the best players. He is an absolutely immense footballer, and quite why our own fans choose to knock him so much is an absolute mystery to me. The only midfield player we have had over the years that I would mention in the same stratosphere as Gerrard, would be Sounness. Now be aware we've had some brilliant players over the years, McDermott, Kennedy etc etc etc. I'm absolutely convinced of this, Sounness is the only one out of the lot of them that comes close. When you consider that he was one of if not THE best central midfielder of his era, it says it all.

[Number 9]

I've got to say I agree with that. I've watched football for a long time, saw all the great Liverpool teams and I'm telling you this for absolute free, Gerrard would have got a game in any Liverpool team of the past and been one of the best players. He is an absolutely immense footballer, and quite why our own fans choose to knock him so much is an absolute mystery to me. The only midfield player we have had over the years that I would mention in the same stratosphere as Gerrard, would be Sounness. Now be aware we've had some brilliant players over the years, McDermott, Kennedy etc etc etc. I'm absolutely convinced of this, Sounness is the only one out of the lot of them that comes close. When you consider that he was one of if not THE best central midfielder of his era, it says it all.

Talk about taking what ya have for granted,it makes me fuc'king sick when people come out with stuff like that!

[Effes]

i think stu is being misunderstood here....

He is.

Comparing the likes of Fabergas, Scholes, Zidan etc etc, and players of this mould, is like arguing why square pegs don't fit into round holes. They are completely different types of players, and I agree, Gerrard is not really that creative of a player. He thinks too laterally, and doesn't think outside the box often enough. Even little Luise Garcia was more creative in and around the box that Steve is. How often do you see Gerrard look to fool a defender with a bit of skill, and then slot the ball into space with a cheeky reverse pass in the other direction he's looking in? Never. Steve has one thing on his mind when he gets near the area, and that's to pull the trigger or to try and break into the box himself.

I agree, in that Gerrard doesn't do this enough, but he does do it from time to time.
Arsenal away in Champs League when he set up Kuyt's goal?
He did it more when he played on the right.

[Kharhaz]

I've got to say I agree with that. I've watched football for a long time, saw all the great Liverpool teams and I'm telling you this for absolute free, Gerrard would have got a game in any Liverpool team of the past and been one of the best players. He is an absolutely immense footballer, and quite why our own fans choose to knock him so much is an absolute mystery to me. The only midfield player we have had over the years that I would mention in the same stratosphere as Gerrard, would be Sounness. Now be aware we've had some brilliant players over the years, McDermott, Kennedy etc etc etc. I'm absolutely convinced of this, Sounness is the only one out of the lot of them that comes close. When you consider that he was one of if not THE best central midfielder of his era, it says it all.

Id say Souness was better simply because he knew what he had to do and did it without fault. Souness was also a better captain, nobody dared fail to perform with him on the pitch. Saying that of this generation, Gerrard is the complete player (midfielder if you like) and when it is made clear to him what role he will play in a match (in a positive way as CM or forward role) you can see the influence he has on the team. How many times have we seen him play for england, covering for lampard, or played on the left. Of this generation of english players, Gerrard is the complete player. But because of that, his ability has been taken for granted, by everyone, managers, coaches and even supporters.

[aCe']

not the hugely successful manager

Ah. It's probably in this bit where we disagree fundamentally Mick, and it's probably one we're going to have to agree to differ on.

hehe i still got no idea who the hugely successful manager hes talking about is ?!

[aCe']

I agree with Stu on most things.

Gerrard, although a good player, ain't no messiah.

He is first and foremost a physical player. Good heavy shot. Good upper body strenght. Good pace.

But his shortcomings are also obvious. Lack of calm, composure and coolness. Lack of creativity and the "zidane factor".

He ain't the best reader of the game and he is far from able to position himself or cover as much space or close down the opponent as the best box to box or defensive midfielders are.


I don't think he is good enough to play centrally in a 4-4-2 setup. If the system has 3 midfielder the there is room for him in a attacking role. For me a player like Paul Scholes is clearly a better midfielder. Both good at going forward, defending and keeping possession while being creative.

I hope Gerrard can improve his mental attributes with age. His skill level will probably not improve as he will never have amazing control, flair or technical skill.

To sum up; I like him. But he is far from being as good as some people think.

I disagree hugely with this post.

1) He's not just good, he's exceptionally good.

2) He's an immense athlete in every respect.

3) Few players in the history of football have managed to combine the all round ability possessed by someone like Gerrard with the skill and intelligence of someone Zidane.

4) Paul Scholes can't tackle for sh!t, he has absolutely nothing on Gerrard defensively.

5) To sum up, he's been our best player for the past 5 years, he's one of our best players of all time, and one of the best English midfielders of all time.

good post ..

Scholes is probably the best central midfielder in the world but fck me that guy cant tackle for sht... 3 out of every 4 tackles he makes are knees into opposition bodies and i have no idea how he gets away with some of his tackles to be honest... brilliant player nonetheless and would have made a great partner with stevie in the middle had he not retired from internationals.. they could use someone like him instead of Barry and Lampard and all the players they try to fit in...

anyways Gerrard, brilliant player, by far our best player, and one of the best in the world... he's not the most creative in the world and not the best dribbler around either but come on, you cant really expect him to be thaaaat perfect can you !

[Thewaykokid]

http://twelthman.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/gerrard-alonso.jpg

Someone tell me its NOT TRUE!

[NiftyNeil]

Similarly, Carra has had zero criticism for having or allowing his book to be serialised in that Sunday newspaper. Gerrard got slaughtered by all and sundry for the same thing.

Carra's book was serialised by the Mirror. Gerrard's on the other hand, was serialised by the News of the World, what most view as the Sunday edition of the S*n. That's why Gerrard got major critisism for doing what he did.

[bigmick]

I stand corrected mate, I thought somebody quoted a bit from the book which had appeared in the Sunday paper. It was commented on by another poster at the time, like I say apologies if it's incorrect.

[andy_g]

it seems like its necessary to make the obvious disclaimer at the beginning of a post at the moment as the number of people jumping down other peoples' throats makes it look like something out of cannibal holocaust. so here's mine...

gerrard is a wonderful footballer and better all round than the majority in world football today. he's one of the best we have ever had at the club and we would be seriously furked without him.

having said that though i also agree with banana up to a point. as much as gerrard has single handedly pulled us out of the sh!t on numerous occasions and been the major influence in countless others he can paradoxically also hinder us. his compulsion to attempt the difficult over the straight forward 90% of the times he receives the ball can result in us losing possession as much as the frustrating tricks and flicks of little luis ever did. the 50 yard passes are great when they come off but how many of them actually do? the comments about him lacking the nouse to dictate the pace and tempo of a game are also accurate. stevie has one speed - flat out.

i know its sacreligious to say this, but our stevie is flawed. he's not the genius that most people seem to think he is. i expect that some people will also want to jump down my throat for saying this but i think if you try and look objectively at the player you can see for yourself. i also refer you back to my disclaimer at the beginning of my post.

[bigmick]

Good post Andy, don't agree with all of it but good post anyway. On the question though of him being "flawed", my take is that you can say that for every footballer. Even Maradona was a diving little ponce despite being IMHO the best footballer ever to walk the planet. Every footballer could do with being better in the air/quicker/more clinical/have better vision etc etc. Ultimately though, and this is one of the reasons I don't go for this attribute method of appraising players overly, a player is quite simply the sum of all his parts. Despite his "flaws", when you add up the sum of Gerrards parts he's a pretty good footballer in any language. Not jumping down anyones throat, that's just my take on it    .

[Number 9]

WTF is flawed??
How close to perfection do you people want?

[andy_g]

never had you down as a throat jumper mick - you're too big.

of course a footballer's talent is equal to the sum of his parts and i've seen stu (i think) even break down certain players attributes in a way not unlike fifa08 or whatever. you know - tackling 16; shooting 12; speed 3; etc etc. i can't be bothered doing the same but i'm guessing that gerrard would score slightly lower than plenty of other midfielders in certain attributes. as we all know though, his overall score would be higher than just about all of them.