Liverpool FC Forum

[Rush Job]

Rushie me and you are going to have to sort it out mate, that's about three things in the last week we've agreed 100% on. Are you mellowing a tad or is it you who's worn me down and broken down me resistence lol.

 
Shall we call it a bit of both or do you fancy a barny about it.

[account deleted by request]

Get a room you two

A while back Stu was talking about how a player can stop or stand still to create a chance. Watch Huntellaar in this clip. Btw a great assist by Babel too.
Holland v Australia

[Rush Job]

After reading it though a second time i couldnt help but wonder why he decided to state publicaly how he NEEDS to be playing in the middle with a more defensive partner.
Does he think its only a matter of time before Rafa starts him wide right?
If so as a liverpool lad through and through and considering his desire to challenge for and eventually win the prem you would think he could see that at the moment its down the right where he could best serve the team, instead of telling his manager where he needs to play him.
The team comes first you`d think a local lad like Gerrard would know this.

[bigmick]

It doesn't sound, though, like Rafa's got plans (or has told Gerrard about plans) to play him out wide, which I know a lot of people saw as a preferable option to Kuyt.  With Pennant bombed out and Gerrard in a central role, then, I guess we'll be seeing a fair bit of Kuyt at RM--no doubt with cameos from Babel and Yossi as well, provided Riera makes LM his own.  Why does that fail to give me confidence?

I don't know about filling you with confidence Bob, but I can put two guesses as to why it makes you a bit glum.

Firstly, Gerrard for Kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team I think we're all agreed on that.

Secondly, if Rafa is going to play Gerrard as one of a central two with a holding midfielder in behind, my suspicion is that like me you feel that the Monster who is known commonly as Mash will play the majority of games, and by definition Xabi won't. Just a thought mate   

Feel free of course to tell me to get fecked if you feel the need 

[account deleted by request]

After reading it though a second time i couldnt help but wonder why he decided to state publicaly how he NEEDS to be playing in the middle with a more defensive partner.
Does he think its only a matter of time before Rafa starts him wide right?
If so as a liverpool lad through and through and considering his desire to challenge for and eventually win the prem you would think he could see that at the moment its down the right where he could best serve the team, instead of telling his manager where he needs to play him.
The team comes first you`d think a local lad like Gerrard would know this.

Maybe that's why he told Rafa in the summer, so Rafa had time to bring in a decent right winger ?

On a completely different point why do we not use patterns of play? The mancs have used them for years (with great success) Yet we never use them.

When Babel first arrived he commented as much, saying that Liverpool never practise attacking patterns of play but concentrate on defensive plays (or words to that effect)

Surely with Alonso and Gerrard able to hit a 30 yard pass with great accuracy we should have a few attacking plays to take advantage?

[bigmick]

I can't beleive we don't Saint, Babel must be talking out of his erse surely? Maybe we don't do as much as he's used to perhaps?

[account deleted by request]

You're probably right Mick (I couldn't find the original quote anyway), but to be honest while its pretty obvious that the mancs have set patterns in a game, how often have you managed to pick out ours? Surely with Rafa they would tend to be like clockwork (or a chess match). Certainly if you take our set pieces as an example of set plays, I would say they need work ..... wouldn't you?

So while you are probably right mate, I still have my doubts. Maybe Stu could enlighten us both ?

[LFC2007]

Gerrard prefers central midfield role - hardly breaking news is it? 

I disagree with those who say he can't play alongside Mascherano effectively, he has done, and he will do in future. It's the players around these two that haven't been good enough. Makelele was highly effective for Chelsea under Mourinho, with two midfielders ahead of him and two forwards/wingers either side of them. If you retrospectively stuck Mascherano in place of Makelele, and Gerrard in place of Lampard, I don't think you'd see a flat midfield which lacked ideas and creativity, I think they'd flourish playing alongside better players. The differences between the 4-3-3/4-5-1 Chelsea employed under Mourinho and the system we used latterly last season are the players on the wings and the positioning of Alonso and Gerrard. Babel/Kuyt and Kalou/Cole/Robben are like chalk and cheese, while Tiago actually played near enough alongside Lampard, Gerrard played off Torres and Alonso played off Mascherano - our midfield was detached in comparison. It's obviously never going to happen now, because we have Keane, but I don't think the two are incompatible. Alonso or Mascherano, either or, it doesn't matter a great deal who plays alongside Gerrard in my view. It really is who surrounds these players that's the problem. Blackburn won the league with Tim Sherwood and Mark Atkins playing together FFS!, Gerrard typically scores as many league goals in one season as those two did back then. I'm confident we have more than enough in that department to succeed. We have arguably our second best player of all time playing there, along with one of the best defensive midfielders in the league, and one of the most adept passers of the ball in the league. They're all up there with the very best, if not the best. That's not to say we should therefore p!ss the league etc..

[samurai3000]

stevie is best at CM. He also does a fine job at right mid aswel. He has saved us many many times. If we don't get the title whilst his with us i really dont no when we will. IMO we will never win the league with rafa. I say bring in DIC, kick out rafa get in a manager who has ambition and knows how to use his squad. Bring in sven   joking. Would love wenger or morinho

[Fo Dne]

You're probably right Mick (I couldn't find the original quote anyway), but to be honest while its pretty obvious that the mancs have set patterns in a game, how often have you managed to pick out ours? Surely with Rafa they would tend to be like clockwork (or a chess match). Certainly if you take our set pieces as an example of set plays, I would say they need work ..... wouldn't you?

So while you are probably right mate, I still have my doubts. Maybe Stu could enlighten us both ?

Patterns of play and in game moves are completely different things. Patterns of play effectively mean when a team has alot of possession during a period of a game, the pattern of the game changes, how to use subs to change the patterns of play in a game etc.

A move that teams use, would be where they create overlaps or they create space for a through ball. The common one teams use is an "up back an over"... IE a long ball or direct pass, which comes back into midfield from the striker, for the midfielder to ping one over the top for an on running striker or winger to run onto.

Liverpool's practising of set peices and in games moves is poor.

[account deleted by request]

It's in game moves I am talking about then Stu. If you watch the mancs they tend to use "set" in game moves quite a lot. The ball goes from Ferdinand or Van der sar to Scholes who acts like a quarter back deciding on which "play" to use next. The receivers( Ronaldo and Rooney) are already off and running and Scholes can make the play virtually without looking up. (Sorry for the American football bit)

Certainly last season it was very noticable in their away games, that these "in game moves" are a big part of their game. 

Liverpool's practising of set peices and in games moves is  poor.

Don't you find it very strange that a manager who takes care of every small detail, and is so precise in other areas, seems to ignore such an important part of modern football?

[Bad Bob]

It doesn't sound, though, like Rafa's got plans (or has told Gerrard about plans) to play him out wide, which I know a lot of people saw as a preferable option to Kuyt.  With Pennant bombed out and Gerrard in a central role, then, I guess we'll be seeing a fair bit of Kuyt at RM--no doubt with cameos from Babel and Yossi as well, provided Riera makes LM his own.  Why does that fail to give me confidence?

I don't know about filling you with confidence Bob, but I can put two guesses as to why it makes you a bit glum.

Firstly, Gerrard for Kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team I think we're all agreed on that.

Secondly, if Rafa is going to play Gerrard as one of a central two with a holding midfielder in behind, my suspicion is that like me you feel that the Monster who is known commonly as Mash will play the majority of games, and by definition Xabi won't. Just a thought mate   

Feel free of course to tell me to get fecked if you feel the need 

Undoubtedly Masch will get more of the opportunities to partner Gerrard at CM this year if Rafa plays Gerrard where he wants to be played.  I can accept that because Masch is quality.  Alonso will get opportunities, though, and that's swell.  Far more worrying, of course, is the proposition of seeing Dirk Kuyt as our first choice RM for the foreseeable.  The lad has his uses but he's never in a million years an out-and-out wide midfielder. 

[bigmick]

We did a bit of pattern of play stuff when I was at rep level as a kid, although much to my disgust at the time I was employed as a centre half so I didn't get massively involved. It largely involved set moves from open play if that doesn't sound too daft. The idea being if he gets the ball out there, he tracks over and perhaps you could go there, he arrives back post and the front attacker doubles underneath kind of carry on. I must confess it had limited value at that level for me, and given you weren't seeing the other lads for weeks on end, it was hard to make things work.

You certainly notice it though when you're defending against blokes who've worked on stuff. They seem to hae a telepathy and a "slickness" which is far beyond normal make it up as you go players. You get stepovers and spin offs to recieve flicks, attackers ducking under crosses and spinning for knockdowns and all kinds of sh!t. We had a few lads who were at league clubs and they gave the impression it was a fairly constant thing at their clubs, with Forest in particular (who were a good side at the time) concentrating on much smaller groups and much more compacted passages, maybe a pass or two.

Like I say, I'd be very surprised if we don't spend time on it.

[112-1077774096]

Firstly, Gerrard for Kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team I think we're all agreed on that.

my nan for kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team, and she has been dead for 10 years

[maypaxvobiscum]

Firstly, Gerrard for Kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team I think we're all agreed on that.

my nan for kuyt on the right would instantly improve the team, and she has been dead for 10 years