Liverpool FC Forum

[Fo Dne]

To be honest, I'm sick of hearing this one stay's one go's .

You're meant to work as a team when you play central midfield. Both should be competant in both roles with one stronger defensively and one stronger going forward. You're meant to be able to work as a team, Paul Scholes has held in Man Utd's midfield for years while Keane done the ball winning and box to box Work. Being the box to box in a pair with a creative midfielder does not mean you're the more defensive, it could also mean you're the most attacking, We need a player who dominates the centre circle and will pick the right pass, win the ball when possible and is able to dictate the game.

Gerrard is a great player, but going forward he lacks creativety and composure and also the game intelligence needed to regularly open up the tightest defences. Now before any dick like Bamaga comes on and goes, Gerrard's a Zidane like Creative force.... is he. He's a decent creative force, he is not good enough to be THE main creative force in any championship winning team and I can Guarentee that if he played for United after Keane, it would be Keane he replaced and not Scholes.

he lacks creativity, he lacks composure, lacks intelligence to split defences.

perasonally i think (and yes, i know you rate my football knowledge as much as I rate Pauline Quirk as a sort) but Gerrard NEEDS the freedom, he should not be stuck in any position. He needs the freedom to bang forwards to get into the spaces where he can create. To say he lacks the knowhow to go forwards is just not right in my small opinion

I clearly said he lacks the ability in those area's to regularly open up the tightest defences.

Now I'm guessing you're one of the people who wonders why we can't regularly open teams up at anfield when they stick 11 players behind the ball. I'm guessing you're one of the people who wonders why United have NEVER had this problem. Width comes into it of course, but the ability to use the ball properly most of the time and have some patience are also big factors, suprisingly, neither of which are Gerrard's strengths.

Shooting from 25 yards isn't creativety.

You seem to think Gerrard has the technical ability of Scholes, Fabregas, Zidane and Deco... he doesn't and never will have. He needs to play centrally in a midfield role with a play maker who will get the best out of him, he needs to have defensively responsibility to win tackles which is probably the best part of his game, which he'll tell you himself, he needs to be in the heart of the action and people to bring the best out of him.

You chat complete and utter anyway and fail to even understand the basics in the game... you even struggle with the concept of a transfer so what I'm doing arguing with someone like you is beyond me.

[SupitsJonF]

Once again insults with the posts, it's like the message the mods gave us was a one day thing.  I like discussion, and most of the time it does heat up, but why do we always need to resort to attacks?  You get your point across without them.

But a football related post, I do agree Gerrard isn't as creative as we would like him to be.  He can give great passes and far shots, but his dribbling and attacking won't exactly be what opens up defenses, but by no means is what he does uncreative and useless.

[dawson99]

oooh, back to insults. Scholes has not got the pace. to say gerrard can only shoot frmo distance is a disgrace in my opinion. He has opened up defences time and time again with his mazy runs, darting into the box (diving to win penalties)

Yes, he is class at the defensive part as well, but he needs the freedom to do both. And you need to stop creaming over Scholes.

as an attacking midfielder, Stevie is well up there, better than deco and always getting better. Maybe im seeing it all wrong, ive seen stevie loads of times in the mix, winning balls, but also claiming them in great positions, getting past the defenders and scoring the important goals. Scholes is the one who shoots from 25 yards, or lampard. Stevie needs to be in front of the defensive midfielder, as he did with didi, giving him freedom to attack

also, if Scholes is so great at creating goals for the mancs why has he got only half as many assists in the last 3 seasons as Gerrard has.  5 for Scholes ....10 for Gerrard.

[Fo Dne]

Once again insults with the posts, it's like the message the mods gave us was a one day thing.  I like discussion, and most of the time it does heat up, but why do we always need to resort to attacks?  You get your point across without them.

But a football related post, I do agree Gerrard isn't as creative as we would like him to be.  He can give great passes and far shots, but his dribbling and attacking won't exactly be what opens up defenses, but by no means is what he does uncreative and useless.

If telling someone they chat when they clearly do is an insult in your little bubble lad you need to grow some balls.

[SupitsJonF]

Once again insults with the posts, it's like the message the mods gave us was a one day thing.  I like discussion, and most of the time it does heat up, but why do we always need to resort to attacks?  You get your point across without them.

But a football related post, I do agree Gerrard isn't as creative as we would like him to be.  He can give great passes and far shots, but his dribbling and attacking won't exactly be what opens up defenses, but by no means is what he does uncreative and useless.

If telling someone they chat when they clearly do is an insult in your little bubble lad you need to grow some balls.

I think you proved my point, again.

[dawson99]

also, whos scored more goals? stevie or scholes? So, Scholes is the betetr more creative and brilliant player... yet stevie scores more, sets up more, defends more.. actually does everything mroe than the ginger little tw@t?


yeah, im clueless
but i respect your opinion and will not resort to name calling my friend

[maypaxvobiscum]

i think stu is being misunderstood here....

[dawson99]

i think IM being misunderstood here, and people are being mean, callingme names

[maypaxvobiscum]

awww dawson. hugs*

[account deleted by request]

I think we need someone with a bit more creativity, but further forward than what Stu is talking about. Its the final third where we have problems creating , not from midfield. We need a Dalglish/Beardsley type player someone who can drop a little deeper and make defence splitting passes.

When Gerrard plays that role ,while he is fast and athletic with great passing ability, he can't play with his back to goal and he has no natural "feel" or vision for whats going on around him. He's better with everything in front of him.

I think thats why Keane was bought , unfortunately unlike Stu I don't think Keane is the answer..... good striker ........not so great creator.

Which is why I think we may struggle for goals, whether the additional width Reira will bring will be enough, only time will tell.

[Sabre]

“Rafa told me, when the Robbie Keane deal went through, that his plan was to play Keane behind [Fernando] Torres and to drop me back to play centrally. I know Rafa Benitez better than most people now and in some games he’ll ask me to play different roles, but he knows what I prefer.”

Interesting comment, that.  If true, then it looks like Rafa is very much thinking 4-4-2 this term rather than 4-2-3-1.  I just can't see him playing Gerrard as part of the "2" because he doesn't always seem to trust Gerrard defensively and I think he sees the "2" as providing the defensive platform for the four lads ahead of them (and fullbacks on the overlap) to build upon.  Or, I'm misreading that and he will be looking to play Gerrard as part of the "2".  It doesn't sound, though, like Rafa's got plans (or has told Gerrard about plans) to play him out wide, which I know a lot of people saw as a preferable option to Kuyt.  With Pennant bombed out and Gerrard in a central role, then, I guess we'll be seeing a fair bit of Kuyt at RM--no doubt with cameos from Babel and Yossi as well, provided Riera makes LM his own.  Why does that fail to give me confidence?

I reach a different conclussion about the 4-4-2. Don't you think that assuming Rafa will accept Gerrard's request, we'll see Gerrard as Mascherano companion, box to box, and Keane doing the role Gerrard was given yesteryear behind the striker?

It also matches the idea of selling Xabi in the summer.

As of late, we've heard Carra saying we cannot carry players, and Gerrard telling the manager where he wants to play. All this publicly.

For me, these signs are much better indicators about the weak position of Rafa than 124 London articles talking about it.

[Emerald Red]

i think stu is being misunderstood here....

He is.

Comparing the likes of Fabergas, Scholes, Zidan etc etc, and players of this mould, is like arguing why square pegs don't fit into round holes. They are completely different types of players, and I agree, Gerrard is not really that creative of a player. He thinks too laterally, and doesn't think outside the box often enough. Even little Luise Garcia was more creative in and around the box that Steve is. How often do you see Gerrard look to fool a defender with a bit of skill, and then slot the ball into space with a cheeky reverse pass in the other direction he's looking in? Never. Steve has one thing on his mind when he gets near the area, and that's to pull the trigger or to try and break into the box himself.

However, I disagree with the point that Gerrard is not suited as a creative force when holding inside the circle. It really depends on that type of game that's being played. Too often teams will camp on the edge of their area against us. This does not suit Gerrard's style of play because he only knows how to play at one speed, and that's at 100mph. He's a tempo setter, and if teams don't want to open up, then Gerrard often get's resigned to pushing out wide and throwing crosses into the box, negating the strong parts of his game. When defenses set themselves higher up the park, this is where Gerrard comes into his own in the center as a creative force, as he likes those raking through balls and cross-field passes that most defenses have trouble dealing with. A prime example of this was Torres' first goal against Chelsea last season.

[Bad Bob]

“Rafa told me, when the Robbie Keane deal went through, that his plan was to play Keane behind [Fernando] Torres and to drop me back to play centrally. I know Rafa Benitez better than most people now and in some games he’ll ask me to play different roles, but he knows what I prefer.”

Interesting comment, that.  If true, then it looks like Rafa is very much thinking 4-4-2 this term rather than 4-2-3-1.  I just can't see him playing Gerrard as part of the "2" because he doesn't always seem to trust Gerrard defensively and I think he sees the "2" as providing the defensive platform for the four lads ahead of them (and fullbacks on the overlap) to build upon.  Or, I'm misreading that and he will be looking to play Gerrard as part of the "2".  It doesn't sound, though, like Rafa's got plans (or has told Gerrard about plans) to play him out wide, which I know a lot of people saw as a preferable option to Kuyt.  With Pennant bombed out and Gerrard in a central role, then, I guess we'll be seeing a fair bit of Kuyt at RM--no doubt with cameos from Babel and Yossi as well, provided Riera makes LM his own.  Why does that fail to give me confidence?

I reach a different conclussion about the 4-4-2. Don't you think that assuming Rafa will accept Gerrard's request, we'll see Gerrard as Mascherano companion, box to box, and Keane doing the role Gerrard was given yesteryear behind the striker?

It also matches the idea of selling Xabi in the summer.

As of late, we've heard Carra saying we cannot carry players, and Gerrard telling the manager where he wants to play. All this publicly.

For me, these signs are much better indicators about the weak position of Rafa than 124 London articles talking about it.

Sorry, mate, I've just re-read what I've wrote and I've certainly made a hash of my idea.



What I was really driving at was that, if Rafa agrees to Gerrard's request, we'll see him and Masch in CM with Keane slotting in just behind Torres.  What we won't see, then, is Gerrard on the right: regardless of whether we line up 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2.  Since RM is an area of concern for many people, I'm not sure that's great news.  Alternatively, since many of the same people prefer Gerrard to be central, they'll at least get that wish.

[account deleted by request]

“Rafa told me, when the Robbie Keane deal went through, that his plan was to play Keane behind [Fernando] Torres and to drop me back to play centrally. I know Rafa Benitez better than most people now and in some games he’ll ask me to play different roles, but he knows what I prefer.”

Interesting comment, that.  If true, then it looks like Rafa is very much thinking 4-4-2 this term rather than 4-2-3-1.  I just can't see him playing Gerrard as part of the "2" because he doesn't always seem to trust Gerrard defensively and I think he sees the "2" as providing the defensive platform for the four lads ahead of them (and fullbacks on the overlap) to build upon.  Or, I'm misreading that and he will be looking to play Gerrard as part of the "2".  It doesn't sound, though, like Rafa's got plans (or has told Gerrard about plans) to play him out wide, which I know a lot of people saw as a preferable option to Kuyt.  With Pennant bombed out and Gerrard in a central role, then, I guess we'll be seeing a fair bit of Kuyt at RM--no doubt with cameos from Babel and Yossi as well, provided Riera makes LM his own.  Why does that fail to give me confidence?

I reach a different conclussion about the 4-4-2. Don't you think that assuming Rafa will accept Gerrard's request, we'll see Gerrard as Mascherano companion, box to box, and Keane doing the role Gerrard was given yesteryear behind the striker?

It also matches the idea of selling Xabi in the summer.

As of late, we've heard Carra saying we cannot carry players, and Gerrard telling the manager where he wants to play. All this publicly.

For me, these signs are much better indicators about the weak position of Rafa than 124 London articles talking about it.

Sorry, mate, I've just re-read what I've wrote and I've certainly made a hash of my idea.



What I was really driving at was that, if Rafa agrees to Gerrard's request, we'll see him and Masch in CM with Keane slotting in just behind Torres.  What we won't see, then, is Gerrard on the right: regardless of whether we line up 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2.  Since RM is an area of concern for many people, I'm not sure that's great news.  Alternatively, since many of the same people prefer Gerrard to be central, they'll at least get that wish.

Which is where I come in with the problem/mistake of buying Keane. I think Rafa wanted a player who could be both a replacement for Torres when Torres is injured or needs a rest, and also someone who can play behind Torres creating and making goals for him.

I think Rafa got the first part right, as I am sure Keane can do a decent job up front either as a replacement for Torres or playing alongside him. What Keane imo can't do, is be the creative force we need.

It also neatly fits in with my argument that Barry was intended to play on the Left, only moving central when either Masch or Gerrard needed a rest or were injured.

[maypaxvobiscum]

i think stu is being misunderstood here....

He is.

Comparing the likes of Fabergas, Scholes, Zidan etc etc, and players of this mould, is like arguing why square pegs don't fit into round holes. They are completely different types of players, and I agree, Gerrard is not really that creative of a player. He thinks too laterally, and doesn't think outside the box often enough. Even little Luise Garcia was more creative in and around the box that Steve is. How often do you see Gerrard look to fool a defender with a bit of skill, and then slot the ball into space with a cheeky reverse pass in the other direction he's looking in? Never. Steve has one thing on his mind when he gets near the area, and that's to pull the trigger or to try and break into the box himself.

However, I disagree with the point that Gerrard is not suited as a creative force when holding inside the circle. It really depends on that type of game that's being played. Too often teams will camp on the edge of their area against us. This does not suit Gerrard's style of play because he only knows how to play at one speed, and that's at 100mph. He's a tempo setter, and if teams don't want to open up, then Gerrard often get's resigned to pushing out wide and throwing crosses into the box, negating the strong parts of his game. When defenses set themselves higher up the park, this is where Gerrard comes into his own in the center as a creative force, as he likes those raking through balls and cross-field passes that most defenses have trouble dealing with. A prime example of this was Torres' first goal against Chelsea last season.

very good post Em. i do think garcia is being missed. IMO he would have been a great second striker.