Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

I know I am a killer for telling people to add posts to existing threads, and not start a new thread, but I add this for two reasons:

1)  It says what I know a lot of Liverpool fans have been thinking this season, and is a nexcellent well thought out take on the saga that is Stevie G.

2)  I have tried to read through the pinned Stevie G thread at the top of the page, but too much rubbish in it has left me lethergic over the idea of shuffling through it, so if others feel the same, this may not get the airing it deserves.

Anyway here go's:

So naïve about Steve

The critics may fawn over him, but Steven "I'm The Man" Gerrard isn't even the best midfielder in Liverpool, let alone the world, argues Scott Murray

Friday February 11, 2005
 
Last weekend, with the sort of theatrical flourish not deployed by a television football commentator since David "One-Nil" Coleman last announced an FA Cup final goal, John Motson emitted a startling banshee-like wail which seemed to be wrought in the pit of his very soul: "Sssccccrrrrrreeeeeeeamerrrrrrrr!" It's a screamer!

A screamer?

What actually happened was this: in a dull match between Liverpool and Fulham, Steven Gerrard lightly sliced the underside of a dropping ball and sent it meekly backspinning about 15 feet over the bar.

Now go back a couple of weeks, and Liverpool are "playing" Southampton at St Mary's. Midway through the second half, the away side launch what would be their only half-arsed attack of the match, a move which culminates in one of their midfielders sending the ball flying at a speed of up to 1mph along the floor. Who could it be!

"NOW THAT'S MORE LIKE IT FROM STEVIE G!!!" the commentator cried out using audible bold italics and a WWF-announcer-on-Viagra-and-'roids-and-six-pints-of-Stella-Artois macho rasp.

Mix in, among other things, rabid Evertonian Andy Gray's bid for Most Disingenuous Celebration Of All Time - that ridiculous "Ya beeeeeauty!" as "Stevie G" "rescued the day" against Olympiakos in the Champions League - and a repeat howl from Motson during Sven's latest snooze-athon on Wednesday night after a Gerrard into-the-stand ankle-shank, and I think we can safely say we have a problem.

And that's because everyone seems to be suffering from an inexplicable lack of perspective when it comes to Gerrard. It was bad enough last season, but at least then he was practically dragging Ged Houllier's lumpen team into the Champions League places of a dreadful division by himself. This season he's been doing no such thing, and - while there's nearly a wondrous player in there somewhere - quite frankly it's all getting totally out of hand.

Blame that goal against Olympiakos. A superb strike from 25 yards, hit at such a dramatic time during the progress of a big tournament that you could set its worth in millions. As such, and in summary, well done. Very well done! But the way the media reacted afterwards, as the clip was shown on loop on a separate dedicated channel throughout the month of December, you could have sworn Gerrard had been the sole architect of this particular legend.

"Gerrard was outstanding," thundered the Telegraph, "leading by example, thrilling the Kop with his patent commitment to the cause!"

"The performance of a lifetime!" telegraphed the Thunderer.

Meantime a bloke from the Mirror who, going by his picture byline, appears to be one of the blokes who used to be in Cast (oh all right it's David Maddock) added: "There are times when big men must stand up to be counted. Gerrard went to the top of a mountain to answer his calling last night."

Not bad when, in reality, he had been nigh on invisible for most of the game, unable to impose himself against workaday midfield opposition. The real heroes of a three-goal, second-half blitz were Florent Sinama-Pongolle and Neil Mellor, who both scored one and brilliantly set up another. Indeed Mellor, on the pitch for a full 11 minutes, may have stopped to wonder how some get all the credit for contributing 50% as much in over 400% the time.

The media's disproportionate reaction to Gerrard's performances isn't the player's fault. But journalists aren't the only ones getting things wildly out of whack. Constantly threatening to leave - "I want to win things with this club, but I haven't got time on my side" - or witlessly screaming "I'm the man" at his own fans (while celebrating a goal against ... Portsmouth) suggest it's time for everyone to return to earth.

Because Stevie G, it seems, is not actually "the man". As of now, Liverpool have won a higher percentage of their games this season without him in the side than with. And lost a lower percentage. When he's not in the team, they score, on average, more than half-a-goal a game more, while picking up a higher average of Premiership points per match. Luis Garcia has a better goals-to-shots ratio than our hero. And as for which Liverpool player is highest up the Opta rankings? Well it's ...

...actually, you already know the answer, don't you? It's a strange state of affairs when one of the Best Players In The World™ isn't even the best midfielder at his club, but there it is. In the run up to Christmas, with Xabi Alonso artfully pulling the strings from deep and allowing Gerrard to concentrate simply on attack, Liverpool were beginning to emerge (admittedly slowly and erratically) as a proper footballing side for the first time in years. But since Alonso was clattered by Chelsea's Frank Lampard, the team have relied on Gerrard as their playmaking force. There have been a couple of reasonable results - and plenty of overly-ambitious shots and passes sprayed into touch - but not one truly good performance since.

This isn't helped by Gerrard's increasing belief that he has to do everything - perhaps understandable given the amount of disproportionate bumf his ego is fed. A player can get away with pulling the team out of shape with headless-chicken running against teams like Olympiakos, Portsmouth and Watford, especially when he pops up with a saviour's goal. But it's harder to look like the midfield general when you're on the same park as a player like Roy "He Actually Is The Man" Keane (and he was on the same park as Keane last month at Anfield, honest). True, Gerrard did well against Patrick Vieira recently - but he had Alonso behind him to free him up.

A comparison with David Beckham's famous and tactically-bereft performance against Greece might also be instructive, if only to view how perspective on a player's true contribution is soon regained when the wonder goals dry up, as Beckham's did in Euro 2004. Gerrard should take notes.

The received wisdom seems to be that this summer's inevitable snatch of Gerrard by Chelsea is a very, very bad thing for Liverpool. But look at it this way: Liverpool, down on their uppers at present, get upwards of £30m for a player who cost nothing; they may even get a Joe Cole or a Scott Parker thrown in; and Rafael Benitez can set about using a lorryload of cash to shape a team. (Forget all the jury-out Josemis and Antonio Nunezes he's bought; when he's had ready money to spend, he's bought true quality in Alonso and Fernando Morientes.)

Chelsea meanwhile will be able to replicate England's Gerrard-Lampard midfield axis that wowed 'em so at Euro 2004. And who should be worried about this summer's transfer window swinging open again? Whatever happens, it's unlikely Rafa will be spending the next few months in a cold sweat.

Having said all that dept: Anyone counselling Gerrard on his next move should still tell him that the best thing to do is stay at Liverpool. Because Benitez hasn't been given nearly enough credit for giving Gerrard a more flattering framework for his not-quite-there talents to shine in. Put another way, there's that ultra-promising partnership with Alonso to develop. And hey, maybe even poor little Garcia will teach him how to shoot. If Gerrard stays and learns, Anfield could be a happy place next season.

So does The Man deserve such opprobrium? As a player who obviously has true talent and never gives less than everything for the team he's always loved, no. As a lad who's dangling the sword of Damocles over his employers heads while running round screaming egotistical claptrap at his own supporters, yes.

As for the commentators: the next time Gerrard scores a goal, just remember the old boy Coleman and settle for a simple "1-0" (scoreline permitting). Because if this guy's given a chance to keep his feet on the ground, he might actually become the player he clearly could be. Rather than the player most insist he already is.

Guardian Article

[Starbridge42]

Interesting article and well worth reading

[Fingers]

Yea good stuff, interesting to see the opta and win/lose ratios with/without SG,

not much of a statto myself but interesting stuff.

[Boocity]

Interesting, have to agree about Alonso tho and SG is beginning to believe all of hype about himself.

[jonnymac1979]

Gerrard is starting to annoy me thinking he's bigger than the club.  I was actually aware beforehand that we have achieved better results without him. 

And also, if I had to choose who to keep out of Gerrard and Alonso, I would choose Alonso.  He just gets on with the job, truly up there with the world's best.  In fact I would say that because he plays for (little old) Liverpool, he is not given the credit he deserves by certain sections of the media who know that Chelsea are their meal ticket, and that Real Madrid - well, they're Best Team In The World™ aren't they just?

Alonso actually came here to work with Benitez and comes with no frills.  Would he have actually come to play for Liverpool if it were not for Rafa?  (Would Morientes?)  He is the real deal.  He's a footballer and a brilliant one at that.  He's settled in very quickly and has simply got the job done with no fuss.  Losing him for the second half of the season has been a huge blow.  I'm not at all surprised he has shown Gerrard up in the OPTA stats.  But then by using the OPTA stats you have the danger of falling into the Gerard Houllier Trap and by that I mean (cue French accent for drama) "We are not a boring team, we finished the season with most shots on target and most shots off target, with the most corners and the most penalties" or "You can't say my team aren't winners. They've proved that by finishing fourth, third and second in the last three years."  You see, sometimes stats are bo!!ocks and disguise what's really happeniing, so I personally can take them or leave them.  A team can have fifty shots on target but still lose the game if the other team has one shot on target and that results in a goal, which GH should have realised are what really count.

The article above is spot on.  He could go on to be the player we all want him to be.  It is laughable the hype he is given by the media.  Especially as he has gone missing quite a few times this season, annoyingly against the ageing Keane for one.  He does remain an excellent player, one of the very best, one who I would love to see partner Alonso for years to come.  I don't think it should be crossing his mind to leave Liverpool, which if you believed everything you read, it is already a done deal that he WILL GO to Real Madrid or Chelsea. 

I want him to stay, the Olympiakos game will go down as Legend.  It was Stevie's moment.  If Mark Walters can have a moment cemented in history, Stevie is more than entitled to one.

However after last year, where we all know what a wrench it was for him to actually STAY at Liverpool, if he's thinking about it again, I will shut the door behind him and wave him off personally, a club like Liverpool shouldn't have it's Captain causing disharmony in the ranks and if he goes, he goes. 

We have a manager who has bought quality, a manager who proven world class players want to work under and nobody should be too blind to see that life will go on either with - or without -  Gerrard.

[simic_ie]

Already posted this in the SG thread

But I totally agree with the post anyway

[JBG]

As good as a player as Stevie is, and he's very good, I honestly have to say that as a dyed in the wool Liverpool fan, he is probably the most over rated player around.

Lampard was saying that he was in the Zidane class the other day. Those kind of comments are not helpful and sadly they have given Stevie a hugely inflated view of myself. Hollywood passes and 30 yard tunderbolts are all well and good, but as recently as the Man UTD game Roy Keane gave him a master class is economy, efficiency and inspiration. Gerrard has more ability than Roy Keane, is a better athlete than Keane ever was (thats saying something) but he needs to learn from Keane's game. If he could combine some of Keane's game to his own then he'd be the best around, one of the best of all time perhaps, but without Keane's strengths Gerrard is often an imposter.

Xabi Alonso could well surpass Gerrard. Alonso can pass long like Gerrard but crucially is a far better player at the simple skill of passing it short and keeping things simple.

[lili]

the best post i have read on Gerrard. i think he is forgetting that he still has alot to learn. The hype gone to head a bit. If our sporting stars in Australia go around yelling c.r.a.p like i'm the man they lose respect very quiclky with their supporters no matter what the sport. I remember drogba in a game for Chelsea running to the side lines after scoring and yelling the i'm back i'm back and all i could think of was your a goose mate shut the hell up. Stevie needs to be part of the team and grow and learn with it not be the MAN.......what a goose.

[Judge]

to SG's credit, when asked if he was flattered by interest from other clubs, he did say ''i dont know about Manu''. he still holds credit with me

[Starbridge42]

the best post i have read on Gerrard. i think he is forgetting that he still has alot to learn. The hype gone to head a bit. If our sporting stars in Australia go around yelling c.r.a.p like i'm the man they lose respect very quiclky with their supporters no matter what the sport. I remember drogba in a game for Chelsea running to the side lines after scoring and yelling the i'm back i'm back and all i could think of was your a goose mate shut the hell up. Stevie needs to be part of the team and grow and learn with it not be the MAN.......what a goose.

just like Anthony 'the man' Mundine.  I hate him so much cos his mouth's writing cheques that his ****** cant cash.  Of course the rap he did with Joel Turner didnt help things either

[stmichael]

As good as a player as Stevie is, and he's very good, I honestly have to say that as a dyed in the wool Liverpool fan, he is probably the most over rated player around.

Lampard was saying that he was in the Zidane class the other day. Those kind of comments are not helpful and sadly they have given Stevie a hugely inflated view of myself. Hollywood passes and 30 yard tunderbolts are all well and good, but as recently as the Man UTD game Roy Keane gave him a master class is economy, efficiency and inspiration. Gerrard has more ability than Roy Keane, is a better athlete than Keane ever was (thats saying something) but he needs to learn from Keane's game. If he could combine some of Keane's game to his own then he'd be the best around, one of the best of all time perhaps, but without Keane's strengths Gerrard is often an imposter.

Xabi Alonso could well surpass Gerrard. Alonso can pass long like Gerrard but crucially is a far better player at the simple skill of passing it short and keeping things simple.

hit the nail on the head there jbg.

i love stevie as much as the next fan but i agree that he is overrated in some quarters. as brilliant as he has been at times this season, it is a fact that for the three biggest league games (manure home and away and everton) he was largely anonymous.

it's also very relevant with regards to the lesson keane and scholes gave him that day at anfield. we seem to forget that gerrard is only 24 (hardly a spring chicken i know) but he still has a lot of improving to do if you ask me.

[bigmick]

Unfortunately, and I know I'm going to get absolutely slaughtered for this, Gerrard will probably become the player to match the hype once he leaves us. Indeed, he probably needs to leave us to become that player.
Thats not a comment on Liverpool you understand, its a comment on him. It's an appreciation of the situation which has convinced him that he is our best player and absolutely indispensable. I thought his reaction to Garcias admittedly poor pass which preceded Fulham's goal was a disgrace, from a captain unforgiveable. What would Keanne have done? Chased back and like as not hacked the bloke down, got booked and then gone absolutely ballistic with Garcia. He wouldn't though have just shrugged, terrible.
But imagine Stevie at a Chelsea or a Madrid, where he has to fight like a dog every week for recognition. Where if he tries too many Hollywood balls he is hauled off and replaced by another top player. Think he'll make a player then? you bet he will and good for him. What about us though?
Feed the hype, Zidane? Stevies twice as good.  Keep it going and when the moment comes, 50 million and not a penny less.

P.S. A top thread, begun by a brilliant post lads. If anyone disagrees with my points then get stuck in by all means but lets try and keep at least one subject numpty free eh?

[Big Niall]

at least he said he wouldn't join Manu. he can go anywhere else if the money is right.

like Lampard He's short game and tactical awareness need a lot of work, that is why they were both outclassed in Euro 2004, watch the portugal game again, England gave the ball away non stop. I think the media are blowing him up. Alonso looks class and doesn't go for the flash.

Roy Keane rarely does anything that makes a fan go "wow, did you see that" but he seems to control a game.

good player, hope he stays but won't shed a tear if we get £30m for him.

If he was scottish would he get as much hype?

[stmichael]

Gerrard's attitude is a problem. Houllier identified a couple of years ago that Stevie was starting to believe his own press; now it's swallowed him whole. It's a pleasure to read that I'm not the only one who sees Gerrard's often misdirected passes or hopelessly optimistic shots. These are the very faults that players like Baros and Garcia are crucified for, yet when Gerrard hoofs the ball into touch - going for the spectacular rather than simply passing to a better placed teammate - mention is rarely made.

I do not support Steven Gerrard FC. While I don't blame the lad for the media frenzy that accompanies him, it has become entirely irritating, and it is destabilising the efforts of the club to forge a winning team. Reading after every match that Gerrard has saved us again (if we win) or will look to leave (if we lose) is making my blood boil. For what it's worth, Gerrard has a valid claim to carrying the team for the past two seasons.

This season he does not. He has scored some crucial goals, most notably against Olympiakos, but the myth that he alone got us to the latter stages of the CL is ridiculous. Indeed his rather distasteful attempts to get sent off in that game when things were going against us are as important to remember as his goal.

Steven Gerrard is a great player, but he certainly is not one of the greats. We are not talking about the potential departure of Zidane or Ronaldinho here. I'd like to see him stay, if for no other reason than to believe that there is still some loyalty, some love of the club left in football, but I am equally happy to see him go.

The money from his sale, in the hands of Benitez, is a delicious thought, and would hopefully signal an era in which Liverpool FC can focus on building a winning team, rather than pandering to simply one more of what has been a succession of inflated egos at the club in recent years.

[Boocity]

This season he does not. He has scored some crucial goals, most notably against Olympiakos, but the myth that he alone got us to the latter stages of the CL is ridiculous. Indeed his rather distasteful attempts to get sent off in that game when things were going against us are as important to remember as his goal.

Totally agree there, the olympiakos game was a brilliant team performance but the way the media harped on about Stevie you'd think he was the only player on the pitch