Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

The recent news of big Sami's exclusion from the CL squad and his subsequent response to this below is not a good sign imo:

From bbc news:

Liverpool defender Sami Hyypia has admitted he faces an uncertain future at Anfield after being left out of the club's 25-man Champions League squad.

New Uefa regulations mean clubs have to include at least eight home-grown players in their squad.

The 34-year-old Finn said: "The manager's decision to leave me out of the squad is a big disappointment.

"I understand it's partly because of the Uefa regulations, but the news came as a surprise to me and a shock too."

The Finland international was subject to a bid from Stoke City during the summer, but Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez wanted to keep hold of him.

Hyypia, who has made 446 appearances for the Reds since signing from Dutch club Willem II in May 1999, hopes he still has a future on Merseyside but admits that had he known about Benitez's decision earlier, he might be playing his football elsewhere this season.

"The club had a 'perfect' timing for this," he added.

"They didn't want me to move elsewhere, so that's why I was told the news of having been left out, just after the transfer window had closed.

"The club went public to say there had been offers for me, but turned them down. So perhaps that means I am still part of the plans for this season.

"I don't know if I would have wanted to move on had I heard news about the squad when the window was still open."

Uefa rules state that four players in the 25-man party must be produced by the club's own academy, while four others can be produced by an English academy.

Established names Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, along with 19-year-old midfielder Jay Spearing and right-back Stephen Darby, 19, make up the contingent from Liverpool

The other four players are Robbie Keane, Jermaine Pennant, 17-year-old versatile defender Steven Irwin and 18-year-old defender Martin Kelly.

Liverpool begin their Champions League campaign away at Marseille on 16 September and will also face PSV Eindhoven and Atletico Madrid in a tough group.

Should they progress beyond the group stages, clubs can submit a revised squad list prior to the knockout rounds in the new year.



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This summer we have already had Alonso unsettled over the Barry fiasco and another of the experienced and respected players, Steve Finnan, controversially sold.  Then there's Pennant who by all accounts was encouraged to leave but turned down Stoke.  Crouch was a well liked among the other players and again was sold.  Now Hyypia has imo stupidly been left out of the CL squad.

Regardless of whether you think Alonso is good enough, or whether Finnan wasn't past it or whether Rafa was right to try and sell Pennant, my point is that as a manager you cannot win trophies with a disgruntled squad.  I am all for having a ruthless manager, but for fu.ck sake be sensible about it too.

We now have 3 players who feel far from wanted (Hyypia, Alonso and Pennant).  The Hyypia decision is a disgrace, he has given 9 years of service and always saved his best performances for the CL, so why leave him out?   If he's not going to be first choice in the Premiership, then why not play him in CL group games - the competition that supposedly isn't our priority this season?  Daft.

My hope is that these players' bemusement won't turn into negativity towards Benitez in the dressing room and spread to other players, which I think is a possibility, especially if results don't go our way.  I fear Benitez has shot himself in the foot here.

[GYBS]

Left out due to the home grown rule being in force and we really only needed three cbs . samis experience would be more use in the prem against teams like bolton who hit the long ball as opposed to in europe when the ball is passed to death and on the deck for the majority of the time . sami been an outstanding servant for us but there has to be a time when these players are used less and less .

[LFC2007]

In relation to the Finnan/Alonso alleged unrest. The Barry non-deal pressed us into making late decisions on their futures. If the board had told Rafa two months earlier that they actually thought he wasn't value for money, Alonso and Finnan's futures may have been settled earlier. I don't think Alonso will give any less for us because of the summer transfer fiasco, and it could even work the other way. The sale of Finnan may be a footballing mistake because he was a reliable player, but assessing the effect of his departure on team morale is difficult if you're not an insider. Gerrard regularly comes out and has a good moan, Carragher has firm views - always has and always will, and Sami is just a bit miffed, but he'll get over it being a seasoned pro.

[Ace Ventura]

Left out due to the home grown rule being in force and we really only needed three cbs . samis experience would be more use in the prem against teams like bolton who hit the long ball as opposed to in europe when the ball is passed to death and on the deck for the majority of the time . sami been an outstanding servant for us but there has to be a time when these players are used less and less .

There's obviously going to be reasons and a thought process behind what Rafa has done, but what seems to be the problem here is that Sami didnt appear to have been given even an indication that it might happen, which for a player that has given so many years of excellent service seems a real kick in the teeth.

I think it was a bit of a bad move by Rafa this one, surely there could of been someone else omitted like Degen ?
Some will say we only have Arbeloa at RB then but i am sure Skyrtl or Carra could play there at a must. Or one of the young lads Darby or Kelly - thats why they are supposedly in the list anyway isnt it ?

[JC_81]

Left out due to the home grown rule being in force and we really only needed three cbs . samis experience would be more use in the prem against teams like bolton who hit the long ball as opposed to in europe when the ball is passed to death and on the deck for the majority of the time . sami been an outstanding servant for us but there has to be a time when these players are used less and less .

Complete bollox.

Sami is more use against long ball teams in the Prem?  In fact these are the exact teams that cause him trouble, because they pump the ball over his head into the corners and the channels and get him turned quickly, exploiting his lack of pace.  Continental teams with their slower build up enable Hyypia to do what he's best at - read the game and snuff out attacks with good positional play.

[JC_81]

The sale of Finnan may be a footballing mistake because he was a reliable player, but assessing the effect of his departure on team morale is difficult if you're not an insider.

It's no more difficult than guessing exactly what went on behind the scenes between Benitez and the board over the Barry deal, which is what you have done in coming to the conclusion that the Alonso and Finnan situations are the board's fault and not Rafa's.

[GYBS]

Rafael Benitez today explained his thinking behind the decision to leave Sami Hyypia out of Liverpool’s Champions League group games this season.

The long-serving centre-back was the victim of a new rule implemented by UEFA which states that all clubs taking part in this season's competition must have at least eight home-grown players in their squads for all Champions League matches.

"It was really difficult decision, but we had to do it. With the rule saying that you need more or less eight British - or local - players in the squads, we needed to decide which three centre-backs to have for the Champions League," Benitez told Liverpoolfc.tv.

Despite Hyypia's frustration, the Liverpool manager stressed that each of his defenders will get plenty of first-team opportunities over the course of the season.

"We now have four centre-backs who are good enough so they have to compete," said the boss. "And obviously it depends on the number of games we play and how we progress in the cup competitions too, so there could be a lot of games for many of our players."

Meanwhile, Benitez vented his frustration about UEFA's new rule, adding: "Clearly I think it is a mistake. When you play in the Champions League, you need the best players you have on the pitch. It is not about where you are from, it is about the best players. I would understand if this rule came in for the Premier League, but not for the Champions League

[GYBS]

Also remember Ballack for chelsea was left out last year and didnt harm them . out of the four sami is now back up .

[NiftyNeil]

Sami should look at the facts. Out of him, Skrtel and Agger, one of them had to be left out. He'll still serve a purpose this year, but not in the group stages of the Champions League. I don't know why he's saying he may have left if he'd known earlier, it's not as though Stoke are in the Champions League is it?

[LFC2007]

The sale of Finnan may be a footballing mistake because he was a reliable player, but assessing the effect of his departure on team morale is difficult if you're not an insider.

It's no more difficult than guessing exactly what went on behind the scenes between Benitez and the board over the Barry deal, which is what you have done in coming to the conclusion that the Alonso and Finnan situations are the board's fault and not Rafa's.

I haven't concluded that the Alonso or Finnan situations were the board's fault, I've made a considered judgement based on what the board came out with, and what Rafa came out with on the subject of the Barry deal. Had the board stated two months earlier that Barry wasn't value for money, it probably wouldn't have dragged on a week until the deadline - the price was known from the outset. The logical knock on effect would've been greater clarity over the futures of Alonso and Finnan.

Then you have the effect Finnan's departure may have on morale? I don't know the effect his departure may have on tem morale, I could speculate that it may have had a negative effect because he was a respected pro and a long, and decent servant to the club, or I could speculate that the squad understand that players often get moved on, and at the age of 32 and with the signing of Degen, his opportunities may have been limited.

[JC_81]

The sale of Finnan may be a footballing mistake because he was a reliable player, but assessing the effect of his departure on team morale is difficult if you're not an insider.

It's no more difficult than guessing exactly what went on behind the scenes between Benitez and the board over the Barry deal, which is what you have done in coming to the conclusion that the Alonso and Finnan situations are the board's fault and not Rafa's.

I haven't concluded that the Alonso or Finnan situations were the board's fault, I've made a considered judgement based on what the board came out with, and what Rafa came out with on the subject of the Barry deal. Had the board stated two months earlier that Barry wasn't value for money, it probably wouldn't have dragged on a week until the deadline. The price was known from the outset. The logical knock on effect would've been greater clarity over the future of Alonso and Finnan.

Then you have the effect Finnan's departure may have on morale? I don't know the effect his departure may have on tem morale, I could speculate that it may have a negative effect because he was a respected pro and a long, and decent servant to the club, or I could speculate that the squad understand that players often get moved on, and at the age of 32 and with the signing of Degen, his opportunities may have been limited.

So in a nutshell, you haven't concluded that the Barry/Alonso/Finnan situation is the boards's fault, you have made a considered judgement that it is.  Cheers.

[Bad Bob]

As I've said in another thread, I can understand the reasoning behind each of these decisions (Hyypia, Alonso, Finnan, Crouch, Pennant) from a footballing perspective (even if I don't agree with all of them).  What concerns me, though, is how the players have been told, by whom and when.  We won't have most of the information in each case to know the true story but, in the Hyypia case for example, having a model professional come out with a heartfelt display of surprise and hurt in the paper is a source of concern.  That it seems not to be an isolated incident is also worrying because it may indicate deeper dressing room problems.  It all just adds to the feeling that things aren't quite right with the club at the moment in all departments (not just the boardroom).

[JC_81]

As I've said in another thread, I can understand the reasoning behind each of these decisions (Hyypia, Alonso, Finnan, Crouch, Pennant) from a footballing perspective (even if I don't agree with all of them).  What concerns me, though, is how the players have been told, by whom and when.  We won't have most of the information in each case to know the true story but, in the Hyypia case for example, having a model professional come out with a heartfelt display of surprise and hurt in the paper is a source of concern.  That it seems not to be an isolated incident is also worrying because it may indicate deeper dressing room problems.  It all just adds to the feeling that things aren't quite right with the club at the moment in all departments (not just the boardroom).

Exactly.

[LFC2007]

The sale of Finnan may be a footballing mistake because he was a reliable player, but assessing the effect of his departure on team morale is difficult if you're not an insider.

It's no more difficult than guessing exactly what went on behind the scenes between Benitez and the board over the Barry deal, which is what you have done in coming to the conclusion that the Alonso and Finnan situations are the board's fault and not Rafa's.

I haven't concluded that the Alonso or Finnan situations were the board's fault, I've made a considered judgement based on what the board came out with, and what Rafa came out with on the subject of the Barry deal. Had the board stated two months earlier that Barry wasn't value for money, it probably wouldn't have dragged on a week until the deadline. The price was known from the outset. The logical knock on effect would've been greater clarity over the future of Alonso and Finnan.

Then you have the effect Finnan's departure may have on morale? I don't know the effect his departure may have on tem morale, I could speculate that it may have a negative effect because he was a respected pro and a long, and decent servant to the club, or I could speculate that the squad understand that players often get moved on, and at the age of 32 and with the signing of Degen, his opportunities may have been limited.

So in a nutshell, you haven't concluded that the Barry deal is the boards's fault, you have made a considered judgement that it is.  Cheers.

Do you fancy a debate about the different meanings of the word 'conclude' or would you prefer to talk about the topic at hand?

[GYBS]

well in the case of crouch he wanted to leave and didnt want to sign a new contract cause he didnt want to be back up to torres .