Liverpool FC Forum

[SouthCoastShankly]

Racist football chant ruled a criminal offence
Independent, The (London),  Jun 17, 2003  by Robert Verkaik Legal Affairs Correspondent

FOOTBALL FANS who join in racist chanting are committing a criminal offence and will be punished by the courts, the High Court ruled yesterday.

In the first case of its kind, a Port Vale fan who took part in a chant describing Oldham as a "town full of Pakis" was told that his language was racially offensive contrary to the 1991 Football (Offences) Act.

The ruling could stop all chanting that includes derogatory references about other nations, leading to a ban on songs about "frogs" or "krauts".

Sean Ratcliffe, 21, from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staff-ordshire, had been among a group of about 70 supporters who had taken up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" directed at Oldham Athletic fans in a league match at the Port Vale ground in Stoke-on-Trent in October last year. Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring, ruled that there was no doubt the word "Paki" was "a slang expression which is racially offensive".

It was not like words referring to nationality, such as Aussie or Brit, which could be used affectionately. The judge said: "It is odd and a shame that this is so in this country, but the unpleasant context in which it is so often used has left it with a derogatory or insulting, racialist connotation."

The judges overturned a decision at Stoke-on-Trent magistrates' court acquitting Ratcliffe on the basis that the chant was "mere doggerel" and not offensive.

Edward Coke, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the judges Ratcliffe did not understand why he had been singled out and asked whether all the mothers and children who had been chanting would be locked up. But Ratcliffe did admit that he knew the chant was wrong, saying: "It's racist, innit?" The case was sent back to the magistrates' court for him to be convicted.

[Stu.Murph]

This is just rediculous.

Why don't they make it like Snooker or Tennis where you can't speak at all?  

[Sabre]

The fact of the matter Stu is that generally people who use the word don't precede it with the colour of their skin. If you don't call your white mates a "white " but call your black mates "black " then your highlighting their race in a derogatory fashion. Why does the 'black' element have to come into it?

Ah. That's a difference. In Spain to be honest we do. If the colour of skin is too white, we say white or pale cúnt. or big nose- . We don't make differences. It's just descriptive.

[Stu.Murph]

Really interesting thread. It has drifted at some point to general chat comments but I won't move it just in case other mates want to give their say.

It was interesting because it deals with political correctness.

In Spain, we've been without inmigration for a lot of years, since in good part of XX century, XIX and XVIII century we've been in decay. 500 years ago, we expelled all the muslims and jews of the peninsula (although we "kindly", "offered" them to convert to Christianism).

Thus, there was not racism in Spain, because it's been us, mostly. Being racist in Spain is something very few would accept. It's seen as something bad. Only the 0.5% of the population would be racist.

Political correctness is useful for this kind of people, and don't tolerate their words.

But. There are others, and they're not few, that they're racist and they do not know it. I remember a mate of the uni that had the chance to go out with a sound black girl. She was hot. Absolutely hot. And he kept asking us about what we thought about her, he wasn't sure what to do. He was absolutely politically correct, and was using formulas thas has been imported to Spain RECENTLY to describe the good black race:

* "Black Skinned". Which is stupidly redundant
* "Coloured Skinned". Which is stupid anyway, because the only difference between skins is the amount of melanine (sp?) which we all have to protect from the sun.

And things like that. So what it has never been insulting, nor a bad thing "black", now despite not being bad, it's not politically correct. And that's new in Spain.

So a racist like that mate, who had prejudices to go out with a black girl just because their friends or they dad might think, only had to use those stupid politically correct expression to disguise his racism. And if you ask him if he's racist, he'll say a big NO NO.

My point, I don't know there but political correctness can be a double blade sword. It's useful against the most racist and aggressive, but it doesn't help in order "mild racist" realise they are. Words are important, but not that much.

Sorry for the off topic bit, but some things I've read here are very interesting and I wanted to say that.

Does the history of 'Moor's in Spain effect the midset of people?

Anyone who makes reference to a players skin colour in an offensive manner should be banned.  First game I went to away to Wimbledon I was 11 and someone behind me shouted "come on Walters you Black B****rd".  Now the guy probably aint racist but it aint nice standing there and hearing that.

My Brother was at Cardiff last year and a guy in front of him was calling Cisse "Black this and Black that".  This cant be justified at all.  Just like if someone shouted "Crouch you white c**t" couldnt be justified.  You have to have strict punishments or people will still do it.

But its ok for them to say he's a lanky cunt?

As Peewee said earlier in the thread, using the word black is simply an adjective. Nothing more. He's not saying all black people are cunts. He's saying that Cisse "who happens to be black" is a cunt.

Just as if he called Crouch a lanky cunt. Crouch "who happens to be lanky" is a cunt or Riise "who happens to be a ginger" is one.

How is saying someone is a black cunt, different to being called a scouse cunt or a ginger cunt?

The fact is, if some black fella behind you called Riise a ginger you'll laugh and brush it off. Black people don't have ginger hair correct me if I'm wrong, so therefore he's discriminating against Riise's race.

I think you all need to get off your high horses and stop dragging this country even further down than it is already. Absoloute joke.

Black people don't have ginger hair correct me if I'm wrong, so therefore he's discriminating against Riise's race.

Wes Brown.

The fact of the matter Stu is that generally people who use the word cunt don't precede it with the colour of their skin. If you don't call your white mates a "white cunt" but call your black mates "black cunts" then your highlighting their race in a derogatory fashion. Why does the 'black' element have to come into it?

Just don't even start.

Jobsworth people like you are the main reason this countries going to down the gutter and whats worse is you can't see the error of your ways.

And Wes Brown isn't black.

[Stu.Murph]

The fact of the matter Stu is that generally people who use the word don't precede it with the colour of their skin. If you don't call your white mates a "white " but call your black mates "black " then your highlighting their race in a derogatory fashion. Why does the 'black' element have to come into it?

Ah. That's a difference. In Spain to be honest we do. If the colour of skin is too white, we say white or pale cúnt. or big nose- . We don't make differences. It's just descriptive.

Exactly.

Thats the difference in culture and the exact reason this place is going down the gutter.

People want to make an issue out of nothing.

[LFC #1]

Racist football chant ruled a criminal offence
Independent, The (London),  Jun 17, 2003  by Robert Verkaik Legal Affairs Correspondent

FOOTBALL FANS who join in racist chanting are committing a criminal offence and will be punished by the courts, the High Court ruled yesterday.

In the first case of its kind, a Port Vale fan who took part in a chant describing Oldham as a "town full of Pakis" was told that his language was racially offensive contrary to the 1991 Football (Offences) Act.

The ruling could stop all chanting that includes derogatory references about other nations, leading to a ban on songs about "frogs" or "krauts".

Sean Ratcliffe, 21, from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staff-ordshire, had been among a group of about 70 supporters who had taken up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" directed at Oldham Athletic fans in a league match at the Port Vale ground in Stoke-on-Trent in October last year. Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring, ruled that there was no doubt the word "Paki" was "a slang expression which is racially offensive".

It was not like words referring to nationality, such as Aussie or Brit, which could be used affectionately. The judge said: "It is odd and a shame that this is so in this country, but the unpleasant context in which it is so often used has left it with a derogatory or insulting, racialist connotation."

The judges overturned a decision at Stoke-on-Trent magistrates' court acquitting Ratcliffe on the basis that the chant was "mere doggerel" and not offensive.

Edward Coke, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the judges Ratcliffe did not understand why he had been singled out and asked whether all the mothers and children who had been chanting would be locked up. But Ratcliffe did admit that he knew the chant was wrong, saying: "It's racist, innit?" The case was sent back to the magistrates' court for him to be convicted.

Although I completley disagree with what was being sung, what happened to free speech? Especially banter at a football game ffs.

PC gone mad

[Stu.Murph]

Racist football chant ruled a criminal offence
Independent, The (London),  Jun 17, 2003  by Robert Verkaik Legal Affairs Correspondent

FOOTBALL FANS who join in racist chanting are committing a criminal offence and will be punished by the courts, the High Court ruled yesterday.

In the first case of its kind, a Port Vale fan who took part in a chant describing Oldham as a "town full of Pakis" was told that his language was racially offensive contrary to the 1991 Football (Offences) Act.

The ruling could stop all chanting that includes derogatory references about other nations, leading to a ban on songs about "frogs" or "krauts".

Sean Ratcliffe, 21, from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staff-ordshire, had been among a group of about 70 supporters who had taken up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" directed at Oldham Athletic fans in a league match at the Port Vale ground in Stoke-on-Trent in October last year. Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring, ruled that there was no doubt the word "Paki" was "a slang expression which is racially offensive".

It was not like words referring to nationality, such as Aussie or Brit, which could be used affectionately. The judge said: "It is odd and a shame that this is so in this country, but the unpleasant context in which it is so often used has left it with a derogatory or insulting, racialist connotation."

The judges overturned a decision at Stoke-on-Trent magistrates' court acquitting Ratcliffe on the basis that the chant was "mere doggerel" and not offensive.

Edward Coke, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the judges Ratcliffe did not understand why he had been singled out and asked whether all the mothers and children who had been chanting would be locked up. But Ratcliffe did admit that he knew the chant was wrong, saying: "It's racist, innit?" The case was sent back to the magistrates' court for him to be convicted.

Although I completley disagree with what was being sung, what happened to free speech? Especially banter at a football game ffs.

PC gone mad

Scott you Aussie ! 

Oh ya from New Zealand aren't ya...

[Rafa D]

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting its ok to call someone a "black cu.nt".

[Stu.Murph]

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting its ok to call someone a "black cu.nt".

And I can't believe people like you either.

What is the difference in calling someone a black cunt or a lanky or ginger cunt?

Go on? Am all ears.

[LFC #1]

Racist football chant ruled a criminal offence
Independent, The (London),  Jun 17, 2003  by Robert Verkaik Legal Affairs Correspondent

FOOTBALL FANS who join in racist chanting are committing a criminal offence and will be punished by the courts, the High Court ruled yesterday.

In the first case of its kind, a Port Vale fan who took part in a chant describing Oldham as a "town full of Pakis" was told that his language was racially offensive contrary to the 1991 Football (Offences) Act.

The ruling could stop all chanting that includes derogatory references about other nations, leading to a ban on songs about "frogs" or "krauts".

Sean Ratcliffe, 21, from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staff-ordshire, had been among a group of about 70 supporters who had taken up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" directed at Oldham Athletic fans in a league match at the Port Vale ground in Stoke-on-Trent in October last year. Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring, ruled that there was no doubt the word "Paki" was "a slang expression which is racially offensive".

It was not like words referring to nationality, such as Aussie or Brit, which could be used affectionately. The judge said: "It is odd and a shame that this is so in this country, but the unpleasant context in which it is so often used has left it with a derogatory or insulting, racialist connotation."

The judges overturned a decision at Stoke-on-Trent magistrates' court acquitting Ratcliffe on the basis that the chant was "mere doggerel" and not offensive.

Edward Coke, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the judges Ratcliffe did not understand why he had been singled out and asked whether all the mothers and children who had been chanting would be locked up. But Ratcliffe did admit that he knew the chant was wrong, saying: "It's racist, innit?" The case was sent back to the magistrates' court for him to be convicted.

Although I completley disagree with what was being sung, what happened to free speech? Especially banter at a football game ffs.

PC gone mad

Scott you Aussie ! 

Oh ya from New Zealand aren't ya...

Just calling me an Aussie would have been offensive enough 

[Stu.Murph]

Racist football chant ruled a criminal offence
Independent, The (London),  Jun 17, 2003  by Robert Verkaik Legal Affairs Correspondent

FOOTBALL FANS who join in racist chanting are committing a criminal offence and will be punished by the courts, the High Court ruled yesterday.

In the first case of its kind, a Port Vale fan who took part in a chant describing Oldham as a "town full of Pakis" was told that his language was racially offensive contrary to the 1991 Football (Offences) Act.

The ruling could stop all chanting that includes derogatory references about other nations, leading to a ban on songs about "frogs" or "krauts".

Sean Ratcliffe, 21, from Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staff-ordshire, had been among a group of about 70 supporters who had taken up the chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis" directed at Oldham Athletic fans in a league match at the Port Vale ground in Stoke-on-Trent in October last year. Lord Justice Auld, sitting with Mr Justice Goldring, ruled that there was no doubt the word "Paki" was "a slang expression which is racially offensive".

It was not like words referring to nationality, such as Aussie or Brit, which could be used affectionately. The judge said: "It is odd and a shame that this is so in this country, but the unpleasant context in which it is so often used has left it with a derogatory or insulting, racialist connotation."

The judges overturned a decision at Stoke-on-Trent magistrates' court acquitting Ratcliffe on the basis that the chant was "mere doggerel" and not offensive.

Edward Coke, for the Director of Public Prosecutions, told the judges Ratcliffe did not understand why he had been singled out and asked whether all the mothers and children who had been chanting would be locked up. But Ratcliffe did admit that he knew the chant was wrong, saying: "It's racist, innit?" The case was sent back to the magistrates' court for him to be convicted.

Although I completley disagree with what was being sung, what happened to free speech? Especially banter at a football game ffs.

PC gone mad

Scott you Aussie ! 

Oh ya from New Zealand aren't ya...

Just calling me an Aussie would have been offensive enough 

[Rafa D]

Calling someone a black cu.nt is racist, calling someone a lanky cu.nt is not.

Its quite simple really. You can point to the fact that both are insulting but with the all the history of the slave trade and the persecusion of black throughout history meaning racism is a very sensitive subject.

When was a lanky person ever killed because of their height stu?

Its racist end of.

[redtrader74]

Really interesting thread. It has drifted at some point to general chat comments but I won't move it just in case other mates want to give their say.

It was interesting because it deals with political correctness.

In Spain, we've been without inmigration for a lot of years, since in good part of XX century, XIX and XVIII century we've been in decay. 500 years ago, we expelled all the muslims and jews of the peninsula (although we "kindly", "offered" them to convert to Christianism).

Thus, there was not racism in Spain, because it's been us, mostly. Being racist in Spain is something very few would accept. It's seen as something bad. Only the 0.5% of the population would be racist.

Political correctness is useful for this kind of people, and don't tolerate their words.

But. There are others, and they're not few, that they're racist and they do not know it. I remember a mate of the uni that had the chance to go out with a sound black girl. She was hot. Absolutely hot. And he kept asking us about what we thought about her, he wasn't sure what to do. He was absolutely politically correct, and was using formulas thas has been imported to Spain RECENTLY to describe the good black race:

* "Black Skinned". Which is stupidly redundant
* "Coloured Skinned". Which is stupid anyway, because the only difference between skins is the amount of melanine (sp?) which we all have to protect from the sun.

And things like that. So what it has never been insulting, nor a bad thing "black", now despite not being bad, it's not politically correct. And that's new in Spain.

So a racist like that mate, who had prejudices to go out with a black girl just because their friends or they dad might think, only had to use those stupid politically correct expression to disguise his racism. And if you ask him if he's racist, he'll say a big NO NO.

My point, I don't know there but political correctness can be a double blade sword. It's useful against the most racist and aggressive, but it doesn't help in order "mild racist" realise they are. Words are important, but not that much.

Sorry for the off topic bit, but some things I've read here are very interesting and I wanted to say that.

Does the history of 'Moor's in Spain effect the midset of people?

Anyone who makes reference to a players skin colour in an offensive manner should be banned.  First game I went to away to Wimbledon I was 11 and someone behind me shouted "come on Walters you Black B****rd".  Now the guy probably aint racist but it aint nice standing there and hearing that.

My Brother was at Cardiff last year and a guy in front of him was calling Cisse "Black this and Black that".  This cant be justified at all.  Just like if someone shouted "Crouch you white c**t" couldnt be justified.  You have to have strict punishments or people will still do it.

But its ok for them to say he's a lanky cunt?

As Peewee said earlier in the thread, using the word black is simply an adjective. Nothing more. He's not saying all black people are cunts. He's saying that Cisse "who happens to be black" is a cunt.

Just as if he called Crouch a lanky cunt. Crouch "who happens to be lanky" is a cunt or Riise "who happens to be a ginger" is one.

How is saying someone is a black cunt, different to being called a scouse cunt or a ginger cunt?

The fact is, if some black fella behind you called Riise a ginger you'll laugh and brush it off. Black people don't have ginger hair correct me if I'm wrong, so therefore he's discriminating against Riise's race.

I think you all need to get off your high horses and stop dragging this country even further down than it is already. Absoloute joke.

imho the difference between lanky, ginger, and black adjectives is that people get kicked in for being black,(or white for that matter), and recieve discrimination. It all depends on what the person saying it means, is it racial or discriptive?? as we cannot know we can't allow it. But i have to agree that the pc brigade has gone too far, as Aussie, welsh and Jock etc. are obviously said tongue in cheek, and you wouldn't know where they're from on the street unless they had a sign round their neck!.

[Stu.Murph]

Calling someone a black cu.nt is racist, calling someone a lanky cu.nt is not.

Its quite simple really. You can point to the fact that both are insulting but with the all the history of the slave trade and the persecusion of black throughout history meaning racism is a very sensitive subject.

When was a lanky person ever killed because of their height stu?

Its racist end of.

Pathetic answer.

Absoloutely pathetic answer and again another example of whats wrong with the country.

I ask you the same quesiton again. What is the difference?

Its got all to do with anything in the past. I'm on about now, whats the difference.

You've got three cunts in a room, one 5'11 blonde hair, one black, 5'11 black hair, the other 7 foot, blonde hair.

You describe the black one as a black and the lanky one as a lanky . Whats the difference?

[Rafa D]

The history makes a difference. Hows that a pathetic answer? Lets use Hillsborough as an example.

Recently there was uproar when someone suggested we should play the Champions League Final at Hillsborough - why? BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY.

The hurts still there.

I recall you got banned for something to do with racist remarks so I don't expect you to understand.

However any decent , semi intelligent human being can see it for what it is. Your making yourself look soft lad.