Liverpool FC Forum

[imouthep]

Sorry sabre just have a quick question that i hope i hope doesn't annoy anyone os that the deprtivo logo or is it mallorca?(next to the liverpool sign) or am i just completely off!

[Rush Job]

I cant help but feel our current side is being gudged a tad prematurly, imho players like Alonso, kewel ( boarderline when fit ) and Agger deserve to be in the SG, FT group and considering the forementioned including Torres have been injured for all if not most of the season so far and havent had the chance to line up together i feel some are gudging a side they havent seen. I also think we have some crackin youth talent with the likes of Guthrie( lookin the part at Bolton ) Lucas, Hobbs the list go's on.

[imouthep]

[imho players like Alonso, kewel ( boarderline when fit ) and Agger deserve to be in the SG, FT]

Indeed i agree there are many other players that fit into that bracket mash, carra, reina, I mean our side is very very good but I still feel that there needs to be an injection of a little more magic. A player we can depend on when we lose the like SG and FT to injury we do look to struggle for goals at times and players like that "conjure goals out of thin air".

Look at the fulham game for instance we completely dominated and anhillated them in every aspect but we could not score. I can not fault the team on such an encouraging performance but leagues are not won on good performances alone we need to sometimes play badly and get lucky with a piece pf brilliance here and there. FT showed this, who would have thought he could score from such an impossible angle but he did.

And as stated before the likes of hobbs,leto, levia,babel are all players for the future and they will definately form the backbone of our team someday but if we have the ability to add class to our squad then why noy do it? I am not saying buy for the sake of buying rather get that elusive player that would give us the competitive edge over our rivals.

[maguskwt]

If for instance Sissoko, Crouch and Carson were to be sold for a combined fee of around 30 million (which given the figures bandied about ought to be about in the ball-park) and perhaps Riise for 3 or 4, then we may find ourselves in a position where we have significant cash to spash sooner rather than later. If the owners were to back Rafa with maybe another ten mill or so, then we could be properly int he hunt for the top players, and blokes such as Villa would be by no means off the radar.

IMO that might be selling too much... you don't wanna destabilize the squad too much with too many new players... even now we have benyaoun, babel and torres as new players... arbeloa and aurelio are still relatively new... so is lucas...

I'd sell sissoko, crouch and, carson, especially since they are not regulars and with the money I'd seal masherano's deal and buy a second striker to replace crouch. I probably won't sell riise since he's an old hand yet still relatively young and he's also very versatile. I like his attitude... even though alot of people are criticising him, I still think he can offer us alot... I'm sure he will come through this bad form and bang in goals from the left side like he used to...

[StevieL]

If we none of our players dont get injured regularly, we can definitely challenge for the title! The problem is, key players this season have been injured: torres, gerrard, alonso and agger.

Also, there's been debate about who should partner TORRES up front?!?! IMO, neither kuyt/voronin or crouch are good enough to pair up with him, and in fact, i'd prefer to see torres play up front himself, with someone shadowing him.

                 Reina

              Carra   Aggers 
Finnan                              Aurelio
          Mascherano   Alonso
Benayoun                         Kewell
                 Gerrard
                     Torres
                     
This solves the "who should partner torres debate" and "who should play in the centre?!".

Obviously, we have babel, and many say they want him partnering torres, but i think he still needs a league season to adjust, and then we can try him up front.

Mascherano is a must in the side, he absolutely destroys the opponents play and imo is one of the best DMF going around.
Alonso?! Great play maker, and we have definietly missed him!
If Gerrard wants to play in the middle, why not play him as an AMF?!?! he has the pace to accompany torres and the shot to still fire in from distance. We've already seen the brilliant through ball he passed to torres to set up the chelsea goal.

With benayoun and pennant(when he comes back) we have more then enough on the right side of the field, and the real problem is really the right side. If kewell stays fit, we're fine... if not... RIISE?! T___T!?!? thats what we gotta find during the jan. a LMF!!

who shall we use as subs?!
- babel for experience, and to change the game.
- arbeloa, someone to replace finnan/aurelio if they get injured/having a bad game
- itandge
- hyppia
- Crouch/Kuyt/Voronin

I wouldn't be necessarily using crouch/kuyt/voronin to sub off torres, but to just shift our formation.
E.g take alonso/mascherano/benayoun off and move gerrard to CMF/RMF and put one of ur substiute strikers to partner torres.

what do you think?!

[maguskwt]

If we none of our players dont get injured regularly, we can definitely challenge for the title! The problem is, key players this season have been injured: torres, gerrard, alonso and agger.

Also, there's been debate about who should partner TORRES up front?!?! IMO, neither kuyt/voronin or crouch are good enough to pair up with him, and in fact, i'd prefer to see torres play up front himself, with someone shadowing him.

                 Reina

              Carra   Aggers 
Finnan                              Aurelio
          Mascherano   Alonso
Benayoun                         Kewell
                 Gerrard
                     Torres
                     
This solves the "who should partner torres debate" and "who should play in the centre?!".

Obviously, we have babel, and many say they want him partnering torres, but i think he still needs a league season to adjust, and then we can try him up front.

Mascherano is a must in the side, he absolutely destroys the opponents play and imo is one of the best DMF going around.
Alonso?! Great play maker, and we have definietly missed him!
If Gerrard wants to play in the middle, why not play him as an AMF?!?! he has the pace to accompany torres and the shot to still fire in from distance. We've already seen the brilliant through ball he passed to torres to set up the chelsea goal.

With benayoun and pennant(when he comes back) we have more then enough on the right side of the field, and the real problem is really the right side. If kewell stays fit, we're fine... if not... RIISE?! T___T!?!? thats what we gotta find during the jan. a LMF!!

who shall we use as subs?!
- babel for experience, and to change the game.
- arbeloa, someone to replace finnan/aurelio if they get injured/having a bad game
- itandge
- hyppia
- Crouch/Kuyt/Voronin

I wouldn't be necessarily using crouch/kuyt/voronin to sub off torres, but to just shift our formation.
E.g take alonso/mascherano/benayoun off and move gerrard to CMF/RMF and put one of ur substiute strikers to partner torres.

what do you think?!

we've seen time and time again when gerrard plays as support striker his effectiveness is greatly reduced... he's just not meant to be played so high up where defenders can mark him quite effectively... to make use of his passing, his surging runs and his long range shots he has to play either AM or CM...

I'd still pair kuyt with torres... even though his form is off right now and he seems to be a bit delusional about his role i think that he's the most suitable player to pair up with torres just because crouch is not a player who plays a quick passing game and the passing game is where torres is best at...

[66-1112520797]

Well we may be about to enter a crucial and historic few months if indeed we are a couple of players short. It's quite concieveable in fact likely that we will be selling a few players off, and thanks to the fact that we have a manger who is pretty shrewd in the transfer market we should be about to rake some cash in.

If for instance Sissoko, Crouch and Carson were to be sold for a combined fee of around 30 million (which given the figures bandied about ought to be about in the ball-park) and perhaps Riise for 3 or 4, then we may find ourselves in a position where we have significant cash to spash sooner rather than later. If the owners were to back Rafa with maybe another ten mill or so, then we could be properly int he hunt for the top players, and blokes such as Villa would be by no means off the radar.

If we do get those sort of funds, I hope it's not spent on "squad strengthening", or people to "give us more options", or "useful players who can play in a number of different positions" but on first team players. If once we've bought them we actually them on a regular basis it might help a bit as well.

Agreed.

He's brought in "squad players" such as Momo, Carson and to my disbelief Crouch. They'd be no point in trading them in for much of a muchness in return. Be bold Rafa, go BIG.

[account deleted by request]

Well we may be about to enter a crucial and historic few months if indeed we are a couple of players short. It's quite concieveable in fact likely that we will be selling a few players off, and thanks to the fact that we have a manger who is pretty shrewd in the transfer market we should be about to rake some cash in.

If for instance Sissoko, Crouch and Carson were to be sold for a combined fee of around 30 million (which given the figures bandied about ought to be about in the ball-park) and perhaps Riise for 3 or 4, then we may find ourselves in a position where we have significant cash to spash sooner rather than later. If the owners were to back Rafa with maybe another ten mill or so, then we could be properly int he hunt for the top players, and blokes such as Villa would be by no means off the radar.

If we do get those sort of funds, I hope it's not spent on "squad strengthening", or people to "give us more options", or "useful players who can play in a number of different positions" but on first team players. If once we've bought them we actually them on a regular basis it might help a bit as well.

Agreed.

He's brought in "squad players" such as Momo, Carson and to my disbelief Crouch. They'd be no point in trading them in for much of a muchness in return. Be bold Rafa, go BIG.

I agree Bamaga,I would rather he brought in 2 top quality players for £15/20million each than 4 or 5 players for £5/10million.

We need to push on now with our signings, we have seen with Torres the difference a top quality player can make, another two of similar calibre and we will be really up and running.

[Sabre]

It's not a matter of being bold, it's a matter of the board hands him $$$$$$$$$

Being bold won't bring you Kaka 

Given the money he has been given so far, he has found a great keeper, probably the best option if you can't pay for a Casillas or a Buffon. He has found aswell a stable replacement for Hyypia and a great CB.

He has brought as well Alonso and Mascherano. Crouch may be a "squad player", but for what is worth, he is an english international.

And of course when he's been given the money he's brought Torres. With the necessary money even my 2 years niece is bold. 

[account deleted by request]

It's not a matter of being bold, it's a matter of the board hands him $$$$$$$$$

Being bold won't bring you Kaka 

Given the money he has been given so far, he has found a great keeper, probably the best option if you can't pay for a Casillas or a Buffon. He has found aswell a stable replacement for Hyypia and a great CB.

He has brought as well Alonso and Mascherano. Crouch may be a "squad player", but for what is worth, he is an english international.

And of course when he's been given the money he's brought Torres. With the necessary money even my 2 years niece is bold. 

He's had the money Sabre, in the summer he bought Lucas £5m + Babel £11m + Benayoun £5m = circa  £21m, and while they are all decent buys(maybe great buys one day) its open to argument whether he should have blown his wad on one top quality player rather than 3 players who arn't of that calibre (yet).

Same the season before, he went for Pennant £7m, Bellamy £6m and Kuyt £10m = circa £23m, in hindsight maybe he would have been better buying just the one player (either a top winger or a top striker)

This diversification of funds has arguably given us a very strong squad but without the necessary extra quality required if we are to win the League.

In other words, you usually get what you pay for, "pay peanuts and you get monkeys"   

[Sabre]

As explained in the Crouch thread, he bought options when options were required.

Now options are not required, so if he buys more "options" I'll join you and Bamaga in your criticism. 

Well we have different diagnostics, but we choose the same medicine: quality signings.

[account deleted by request]

As explained in the Crouch thread, he bought options when options were required.

Now options are not required, so if he buys more "options" I'll join you and Bamaga in your criticism. 

Well we have different diagnostics, but we choose the same medicine: quality signings.

Fair enough    I still find it surprising that Rafa does more business in the winter window than he does in the summer Whereas most managers hardly do any in the winter window. Did he do this at Valencia?

[Bad Bob]

It's not a matter of being bold, it's a matter of the board hands him $$$$$$$$$

Being bold won't bring you Kaka 

Given the money he has been given so far, he has found a great keeper, probably the best option if you can't pay for a Casillas or a Buffon. He has found aswell a stable replacement for Hyypia and a great CB.

He has brought as well Alonso and Mascherano. Crouch may be a "squad player", but for what is worth, he is an english international.

And of course when he's been given the money he's brought Torres. With the necessary money even my 2 years niece is bold. 

He's had the money Sabre, in the summer he bought Lucas £5m + Babel £11m + Benayoun £5m = circa  £21m, and while they are all decent buys(maybe great buys one day) its open to argument whether he should have blown his wad on one top quality player rather than 3 players who arn't of that calibre (yet).

Same the season before, he went for Pennant £7m, Bellamy £6m and Kuyt £10m = circa £23m, in hindsight maybe he would have been better buying just the one player (either a top winger or a top striker)

This diversification of funds has arguably given us a very strong squad but without the necessary extra quality required if we are to win the League.

In other words, you usually get what you pay for, "pay peanuts and you get monkeys"   

I'm with you in mildly questioning the wisdom of some of this summer's signings.  Babel and Lucas, for instance, might turn into brilliant players down the line but if we had looked elsewhere and gotten one player the calibre of Torres to play out wide, I would have been happier.

Last season's signings are a different matter for me, though.  First, we need to acknowledge that the budget was still pretty tight and there were many gaps to fill.  A season of Gerrard and Cisse on the right showed that we needed an RM--if only to back Stevie up if Rafa decided to continue with him out there (which he did at first).  In addition, Morientes hadn't settled and Cisse wasn't good enough by just about everyone's estimation at the time (although that might be an interesting discussion to revisit in light of his scoring record compared to what we've had since  ).  So, we needed to sign two strikers.  Given how expensive top creative players are, I don't think Rafa could have done much better with the money available.  Add to that the fact that a player like Kuyt looked very promising on paper/youtube ( ) and Bellamy had bags of Premiership experience and was in good form and I don't think they were bargain barrel buys at the time.  As for top strikers, one look at how Shevchenko's got on at Chelsea tells me that there's no guarantees there either.  So, while I'm disappointed last season's signings didn't have the impact we hoped, I do think they made sense at the time.

[Sabre]

Doing things in the winter is not a good sign, not in Valencia, not in Liverpool. I don't remember well if in Valencia he was very active in winter, I'll check that, but I don't recall it.

Yes, it's a bad thing to do things in winter because it means you didn't do the homework in summer.

In some cases, I think it was Rafa's fault, like in the Heinze case. He was a good player for us, but Rafa should have had another quality option in case Manchester did what they did.

In some cases, it was not his fault, Alves and Simao were players that needed an amount, and that amount never was handed to Rafa.

The problem at this point is that in order to improve the squad we need quality, and quality is scarce. Only the likes of Mascherano or Heinze are capable of improving the existing squad. The problem now is to have the necessary economic muscle to buy this kind of players.

[ConnO'var]

So, while I'm disappointed last season's signings didn't have the impact we hoped, I do think they made sense at the time.

In this, I disagree, Bob.

Kuyt, I can understand. But Pennant and Bellamy were poor choices. I said this at the time and nothing I've seen from the two of them since, have made me change my mind.

There is no doubt that we needed a right sided player and another striker. Splitting the funds though, was in hindsight, erroneous. Both Bellamy and Pennant had and still do have character and ability issues. Both had caused endless off field problems and in the case of Bellamy, in the dressing room as well. They were both risks and we damned well knew it. As it turned out, Bellamy showed his true colours yet again and had to be offloaded. Pennant, for all his improvement is not, IMHO, liverpool standard and never will be. He's not smart enough and seems to be mentally fragile whose confidence can be severely rocked with a few ordinary performances.

Yes, both these position needed to be filled, especially the right midfield slot..... But combining the fees of these two together, would have landed us Alves who would have been an automatic 1st choice. (I know, he's a right wingback but can play as a right midfielder and also given us an option to play 5-3-2. I also know that it's possible that he may have bombed in the premiership like Shevchenko but less likely to have been the problem that is a certainty.... Bellamy).That would have left us with Crouch, Kuyt and Fowler upfront. Which would have left us with 1 position to fill. I believe Kanu was available on a free..... COuldn't have been much worse than Bellamy, I don't think....

All this is with the benefit of hindsight, I'll add before I get lambasted, but last season's transfer set us back in the league in my opinion.