Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Nice and simple if we dont win the league should Rafa be sacked or do you want Rafa sacked if he fails to win the league ?

For me its no - as i feel we will end up a lot closer to the winners if its not us and that to me shows improvement and something to build on a give us a platform to have a go next season .

[Ciggy]

Havent we got one of these already 

[GYBS]

Dont know ? Not seen one .

[we all dream...]

No, I have faith in him and believe he is building a decent team that can, is and will challenge for the title!

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

at this moment in time no, but that could all change if we fail to maintain a challenge till the end of the season

maybe u could of added another option

[Zidane]

If he stayed long enough I think he would win at least 1 before Stevie/Carra have to start hitting the bench.  I don't know if he will be around that long though.

[GYBS]

at this moment in time no, but that could all change if we fail to maintain a challenge till the end of the season

maybe u could of added another option

was thinking about another option but just wanted to keep it simple with the votes and then let people explain thier views etc

[Judge]

Havent we got one of these already 

no, but we do have another one of these

[Reg]

Dont be daft.

[Madmax]

Not really but  what if we slip down the table and again challenge for the 3rd or 4th spot..... Maybe different thoughts then. If that would be the case i woul say we need a change.

[devaney]

Nice and simple if we dont win the league should Rafa be sacked or do you want Rafa sacked if he fails to win the league ?

For me its no - as i feel we will end up a lot closer to the winners if its not us and that to me shows improvement and something to build on a give us a platform to have a go next season .

If he wins nothing that will be three years without a trophy and a massive amount of spending. No one has spent more than Rafa except Chelsea so yes I think serious consideration should be given to his position.

[alanricouk]

I think he has one more season after this is finished. He will have his own team then, with his own players.

Plus, maybe more to spend if we do get new owners.

[bigmick]

It's not about whether or not we win the league. It would obviously mean that Rafa has another five years if we do, but you can't in all seriousness say to somebody "win the league or your out". We demanded a challenge, and we've got one so the manager deserves credit for that and deserves a chance to go closer next season, if indeed we do fall a bit short this time.

The key for me though is progress, and it's a very interesting subject. It's far too easy IMHO to say that as we are a better team than when Rafa first arrived, we have made "massive" or "huge" progress. Yes the team has progressed, but it's worth looking at how much, at what cost and how quickly it's happened. It's also worth considering what the future looks like.

Firstly as far as the team is concerned. It contains two players (Gerrard and Carragher) who were here under the previous regime. Both are much better players than they were then. Carragher has improved out of all recognition, and I think Rafa deserves lots of credit for both moving him to central defence and for trusting him in the early days. He's improved a bundle. Gerrard was always good of course, but he's now a fantastic player. IMHO possibly the best in the World today. Now I don't subscribe to what some person said on here the other week that "Rafa made Gerrard into the footballer that he is" but clearly the manager deserves some credit for his developement. I think Gerrard would probably have been pretty good anyway  but there should be some credit there. My point with regards those two is that having a centre half and a central midfielder of the quality of those two who have matured at the same time is a huge, massive advantage to any manager.

Given we also spent a shed load of money (200 millionish), and given the team which Rafa inherited was inadequate in many areas, and given that we've had five years at it, I would expect the team to have improved. I think if the team hadn't improved there would be something seriously awry. It's fairly clear to me though that it has got better, and that this team would beat Houlliers team which he left behind. The unfortunate thing is, we don't play against that Houllier team, we play against the other big four teams who prior to this season had all improved as well. Arguably, some of them improved by more in spells over the same period than we did, while spending less money getting there.

So yes the team has progressed. We were kicking around 4th place in the league when Rafa arrived, and it remains to be seen whereabouts we'll finish up this season, but we hope for better. I did ask though in another thread whether the progress was quick enough and I'm not so sure. This Summers transfer dealings are looking like just about the worst bunch of transfers in the History of the Football Club, and if it is going to cost us 40 million quid to improve the first team with a player of the quality of Riera, the Kuwaities had better start drilling for some new oil wells because we are going to need a lot of cash.

I worry about the fact that a suspension for Arbeloa can derail us so completely because we've only got one right back. I worry that we had to play Insua because we didn't have a fit left back (one who was injured, one who just isn't fit to play there for us). Insua worked out but it was just as well he did. I worry that we've only got one left midfielder, that we haven't got a right midfielder who can play in a 4-4-2 to anything like the required standard. I worry about the wasted money, and that despite our improvement and massive strides, Aston Villa have improved to the alarming extent that they are within three points of us at the end of January.

We made progress on mistakes during the seeing of the light period, which was good. we are now though well and truly back into the styling, and I wonder if the dimmer switch has been replaced by the old on-off. We can't seem to get our heads around the notion that footballers respond like human beings to encouragement, emotional nourishment, consistency, feeling wanted etc etc. Player after player comes in one revolving door, flatters to decieve and then leaves spinning through the other door, seemingly bemused and dizzy from the experience. The only certainty seems to be the entry fees are much more expensive than the exit ones, and the cycle continues.

Probably a better and more pertinant question than the topic starter is this. If we finish third or fourth, 10 points or so off the top of the league this season would you change the manager then? That's an interesting one.

[KOPMATT]

No he shouldn't!

[bigmick]

No he shouldn't!

a very succint response Matt, I could learn much from you.