Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

I posted up a comment on the "houllier moments" thread and it had got locked. I did resolve to only get involved in such discussions on relevent threads and I suppose this qualifies.

I don't really go for this "he has to go if he can't win the league" angle. You have to look at it in a more broad and sensible way than that I think. For me, it's a question of how long the manager has been here, and how much he's spent, how much we've improved etc.

I simply don't see an imminent seeing of the light again which could give us the big push towards the title. It was fairly clear that if we cut down on mass rotation we'd get more points, but now we've done that and proved it to be the case we're begining to lapse back into our old ways.

Take the midfield over the last three matches. Against Wigan we start Lucas, leaving Alonso out and ask the Brazillian to play ahead of Masherano. During the course of the match, bizarrely I thought the Argentine actually played ahead of Lucas but I'll put that down to his latin blood. Anyway, Mash played well (including setting up the goal) and Lucas didn't, eventually giving away the penalty.

Next match we play Chelsea, and we revert back to our strongest midfield. Lucas is out again, Alonso comes back in. The midfield as a whole functions quite well, Masherano is excellent and we win the match. We quite often do this when we play our best team.

Next match, the merry go round continues as Mash is left out against Everton, Lucas comes back in and we're off again. Lucas gets himself sent off, and we lose.

Now on the left, Benayoun has his best game in a Liverpool shirt against Wigan playing right midfield and scores. He then gets left out next game, comes on as left midfield substitute and is one of our best players. Next game he is out again, (are you keeping up?)

Meanwhile Aurelio at left full back puts in a sterling performance against Chelsea, but then is left out of the Everton match. Throughout all of this, we still simply cannot find any fluency or consistency, (funnily enough). We still go into games too defensive to win sufficient numbers of them, and there isn't any players waiting in the wings that are about to change our situation anytime soon. It's not good enough after five years to depend so heavily on Steven Gerrard to bail us out of the sh!te all of the time. IMHO we will not win the league with Rafa as manager, and as a result I think we should get somebody else in at the end of the season who potentially can.

I don't believe it'd set us back five years, as I don't believe Rafa will win us the league. That is my premise, and as a result I think anohter couple of years with the current manager would be effectively wasted.

good post...

echoes what some have  been saying for quite some time now i must say... manager has lost the plot (for this season atleast) and i truely believe that our best chance of silverwear this season was the FA cup and we somehow managed to fail yet again...

[Lando_Griffin]

If Rafa goes, I think many people are in for a shock. Those who lambast Rafa for speaking out in the press, then laud Mourinho as the saviour, are sadly missing something. Moris was the most vociferous, gabbling pesticide ever to "grace" an interview. He consistently belittled everyone, often insulted the opposition, and conducted himself without any grace or diligence.
No stranger to speaking out against his employers, he created an untenable position for himself inside 2 years of taking over the club.

And a sizable minority on here think we've got it bad with Rafa.

Aside from this, Rafa's tactics are often spot on, but the many many good things he does are all too oft overlooked to try and aid the anti's arguments. The subs against Chelsea changed the game, and directly contributed to at least one goal. (But then, in the anti's minds, rather than this being a positive, they suggest Rafa should have started that team - a curious notion, as whenever Benayoun starts a game, Rafa is insulted to high heaven anyway...) So you see, there really is no winning with the anti crowd.

I honestly feel that even if we go on to win the league this year, these baffling individuals will still claim that Rafa should be sacked.

[112-1077774096]

maureen also won the league

[Lando_Griffin]

maureen also won the league

...with a squad which cost half a billion pounds.

[112-1077774096]

maureen also won the league

...with a squad which cost half a billion pounds.

and? your point is? they still have an expensive squad but didn't win it last season, the didn't win the CL.

it doesn't matter how expensive the squad is when you don't let them do their jobs. every player in that team would have walked through walls for maureen, how many of ours would do the same for rafa?

[bigmick]

[quote="Lando_Griffin"]If Rafa goes, I think many people are in for a shock.


I don't know about a shock. I suppose it all depends on what kind of job the replacement manager did or does.

If he can't get us into the top four of the Premiership each time around, given our financial clout comapred to our rivals for third and fourth, I'd be shocked. If he can't then get us out of the group which contains two nothing teams and one midtable Premiership ones, I'd be shocked about that too. 

On the other hand, if he's given forty million quid to spend and manages to improve the first team to the extent of replacing Ryan Babel with Albert Riera, I'd probably be even more shocked. Similarly, if he attempted to go through a title run in of fifteen games or so with only one recognised striker I'd be amazed never mind shocked. I'd be the first one saying "feck me you're no better than the last bloke". That wouldn't be enough to want the last bloke back though.

And lastly, if we give him five years and 150 million quid, I'd be shocked if he can't improve the squad from where it currently is. A squad that has Arbeloa as our best right back and no replacement. Albert Riera as our best left midfielder and no replacement. Dirk Kuyt as our best right midfielder (as long as we play 4-5-1, never up front and as long as Gerrard and Alonso play) and no sensible replacement (infact being honest with the exception of the captain we haven't actually got a right midfielder). Fernando Torres as our best striker, and no replacement.

If he (whoever it is) couldn't improve on that, you're right I'd be shocked.

[bigmick]

I honestly feel that even if we go on to win the league this year, these baffling individuals will still claim that Rafa should be sacked.

Just on this point I've put my cards on the table elsewhere but I'm happy to do it again here. If Rafa wins the league, he has made me look a complete sheer and utter c...   It will mean I am talking absolute sh!t and there will absolutely nowhere to hide. What's more, I pledge here and now that I won't even attempt to hide, I'll take all the abuse anybody aims at me and I'll deserve every scrap of it.

[GYBS]

That fat spanish waiter has to go!!...we are a laughing stock, what manager plays a idiot like Lucas who gives fouls away like its xmas?..a player (if you could call him that ) who will cost a game after game...but for some reason the waiter cant see this!.....we have a manager(if you could call him that?) who takes off our main striker when we were trying to win the game and brings on that other useless thing Babel when he should have taken Kuyt off another non-producer. The only good thing to come out of tonights result is hopefully it will be the final nail in Benitez's coffin?....cos i think he needs burying after another tactically inept selection and more crackpot substitutions.

Your also on a wind up mission. You have posted this in another thread as well. Fat spanish waiter?

<MARKED>

Deffo a wum only the bitters and mancs call rafa that.

yep spot on ciggy - seen them call him it on many a forum and lots on 606 but never ever seen a liverpool fan call him it

[puroresu]

I just hope no contract is given to Rafa before the end of the season.

[Bam]

That fat spanish waiter has to go!!...we are a laughing stock, what manager plays a idiot like Lucas who gives fouls away like its xmas?..a player (if you could call him that ) who will cost a game after game...but for some reason the waiter cant see this!.....we have a manager(if you could call him that?) who takes off our main striker when we were trying to win the game and brings on that other useless thing Babel when he should have taken Kuyt off another non-producer. The only good thing to come out of tonights result is hopefully it will be the final nail in Benitez's coffin?....cos i think he needs burying after another tactically inept selection and more crackpot substitutions.

Your also on a wind up mission. You have posted this in another thread as well. Fat spanish waiter?

<MARKED>

Deffo a wum only the bitters and mancs call rafa that.

yep spot on ciggy - seen them call him it on many a forum and lots on 606 but never ever seen a liverpool fan call him it

Well considering he has been here since 2003 and probably one of the oldest members on this board. I'd be very surprised to see that he's hid his BS, Manc agenda all this time.

He isnt a WUM not IMO, just another disgruntled fan of the managers. Although Spanish Waiter does sound BS like, I hardly think its worth giviing him the Spanish inquisition over.

[Owzat]

I honestly feel that even if we go on to win the league this year, these baffling individuals will still claim that Rafa should be sacked.

Just on this point I've put my cards on the table elsewhere but I'm happy to do it again here. If Rafa wins the league, he has made me look a complete sheer and utter c...   It will mean I am talking absolute sh!t and there will absolutely nowhere to hide. What's more, I pledge here and now that I won't even attempt to hide, I'll take all the abuse anybody aims at me and I'll deserve every scrap of it.

I hope Rafa does win the league this year, I haven't completely given up hope of it yet. But he looks less and less convincing with tactics, substitutions and in front of the cameras. It's there to be won, he's not quite thrown it away yet, but selling Keane may be the decisive action in a few that are costing us. I all honesty we weren't even playing that well early season, just grinding out results or making comebacks. When did we last come back to win a league game? Wigan?

The momentum has gone, it's gone since we lost our first game that we should have taken as a kick up the backside and pushed onwards and upwards from. Seems now we're too afraid of losing, more than we should be looking to win

Premiership Momentum Lost

Games 01-10 (before we lost) : P10 W8 D2 L0 PTS 26
Games 12-24 (after we lost) : P13 W6 D7 L0 PTS 25

May not seem like a huge difference but one more point in THREE less games shows what the difference is between being top and not being top. We won four times as many games as we drew in the first 10 games, we've won less than we've drawn in the last 13. We are five points better off than any previous Premiership campaign, BUT none of those were even close to a title challenge at this stage so that's simply sign of a small improvement in us. I wonder how long it is before Rafa comes out with quirky stats like "eight points better off than at this stage last season" - is it a sign of confidence that he does it or simply to deflect growing criticism?

Rafa needs to buck his ideas up, I suspect he's too stuck in his ways and that may cost him any chance of winning the league with us - or probably even with Man Utd, Chelsea or Man City. He'd need to be in charge of a team with players so good they'd be hard pressed not to win most games, filled with the kind of players Rafa seems not to like. Well there's only 14 games (or less) until we know if we can/have won the league, I suspect we'll be resigned to not winning after the trip to old trafford.

[Sir Roger]

Rafa is what he is. Theres no changing him: arrogant, hard headed, stubborn, uncompromising, call him what you want. One thing we can say is that he will not change his style of management. He is confident in his own ability and adamant that he knows best. He has proven this over and over in the last five years with regards to players and team selections. He will choose who he wants to play when and where he wants to play them. This has been a constant in his reign. For the moment we are stuck with him and he does have a subsatntial support of many fans. But that wont last forever and more and more reds I know have had enough of him. He is gambling with the future of LFC and he must turn it around soon or lose whatever credibility he has left.
No more ups signor...

[bigmick]

It's true Rafa isn't going to change mate I agree with you there, and it's one of the reasons I'd like to give someone else a go. Stubborness can be a quality, but it can also be a weakness.

I like to try and stay ahead of the game, and my latest prediction is that if we do fail to win the league this term, all the draws will be quickly forgotten about. Not going for the win against Arsenal will become a distant memory at best, as will the giving up of numerous opportunites to give ourselves a cushion over the Mancs, taking both torres and Gerrard off at Wigan, selling Keane and leaving ourselves with one striker etc etc.

None of that will be the reason we didn't make it, it'll be those pesky injuries. You watch.

[Alex G.]

If Rafa doesn´t win any trophy this season he should go because three years without titles is too much time for a big club like Liverpool. As simple as that.

[Ciggy]

Taken from Ballague's official site:

Following the news that Liverpool`s American owners had flown in for contact talks with Rafa Benitez last weekend, many of you have been leaving comments asking for an update...

George Gillet Jr and Tom Hicks met with the Liverpool manager and his agent, Manuel Garcia Quilon, at the weekend and everyone has been left feeling very positive following these discussions. The fact that all parties were able to meet in person and discuss the matter face to face has helped the relationship - as has the fact that the club`s owners have also now made enquiries at other club`s with regard to what is an acceptable level of control for a manager in British football.

It has been suggested that the Liverpool owners have even consulted with Randy Lerner, the owner of Aston Villa, and are now satisfied that the level of control over football matters that Benitez is demanding at Liverpool is no greater than many other Premier League managers currently enjoy.

Almost everyone is now in agreement that the way forward is now for Benitez to sign a revised contract offer that will reflect his status as a manager, rather than just a coach; keeping him at Anfield for a further four years beyond the end of this current season. George Gillet Jr has now admitted that the best thing for Liverpool Football club is for this matter to be resolved as soon as possible so that off field politics do not distract from the team`s push for the Premier League title.

After having waited three months for a definitive offer from the Americans, Benitez will now not be rushed in to signing the deal, and there were murmurs coming out of Melwood on Thursday that a couple of issues are still not quite right. However, this weekend`s talks have certainly built bridges between all parties involved and I am under the impression that, while there still may be a delay, a deal will eventually be agreed.

http://www.guillembalague.com/rumores....&id=168