Liverpool FC Forum

[bunglemark2]

I think its funny how Torres and Gerrard seem to get injured at the same times... real injuries? Or they just really don't wanna play?

Lookd to me like they just weren't er.sed last night.
Torres gets a bit of a roughing up and decides he's had enough. Gerrard decides there's no way we'll score with the tripe left on the pitch.
Bad, bad, bad attitude from both of them...

[devaney]

And people like LG ER BTN wonder why Benitez gets criticised and every thread becomes a Benitez bashing session. Well last night was the reason. It was embarrassing to watch the game and the after match interview with Benitez was even more embarrassing. I am more convinced than ever that he is actually trying to get himself sacked. Make no mistake we played a side that are struggling in the CS and haven't won in their last five games. In fact in two of the games they got soundly thrashed leaking 4 goals on both occasions! We helped make them look good with some awful football and as for Benayoun's foul and miss at least it should take some of the pressure off Kuyt from the critics.

[Sir Roger]

One thing I don't understand Rafa is that if the players are not performing, shouldn't some of them be benched regardless of the player's status? If Reading can beat us with nobody, it wouldn't be a bad idea to play more of our reserve players as they are more hungrier I suppose. Players like Pacheco or move players around. It just seems our team had lost it's soul. No one is willing to take up the challenge and lead this team. Even with our injuries, I don't mind them losing if they show they had put in the effort but I don't see that happening. A lot of the players deserve to be benched and humiliated. They have to realize the job will be taken away if you are not performing. This is what a manager should do as this is what other manager will do in other professional sports also. If they cry being disrespected, they have no one but themselves to blame. And those are not the kind of player we need. We need more player with a fighting spirit in them rather than "Oh well, too bad" kind of attitude. Just look at Birmingham, I had watched them recently, why they had been so successful recently is because all the players just take extra effort in pressurizing the opponents. Basically, they just work harder and run an extra step. If you work hard, good things will eventually come. I see the players in our club seems to wait for the ship to sink and then leave and it won't be their problem. This is really sad as I think the problem lies beneath more than Rafa.

I would agree with you except that I think "humiliate is the wrong word for these players. I dont think they feel humiliated when they are benched. They are angry and frustrated, surly and sulky. They obviously think they are above being dropped and have no desire to prove the manager wrong when they get their chance.
What we have got is a load of de-motivated, apathetic, confused players who are leaderless both on and off the pitch.

[made in UK]

Well after being slightly intimidated by Ciggy this morning I'll try and post some football stuff.

Rafa has usually come accross as a likeable guy during interviews and what have you and there is no doubt in my mind he is trying to do what he thinks is best for the club. Therefore I don't like to see petulant and personal comments directed at the manager the way some of our fans have been of late.

I've doubted Rafael Benitez to be the man to take Liverpool back to the pinnacle of English football for a good two or three seasons now. Everything has been hottly disputed on this forum; Mindset and tactics, formations, rotation, in and out transfers, budget, owners, substitutions, physical fitness, round pegs & square holes, motivation and man-management etc. I suppose any fan of any club can pick out the negagtive attritubes their manager has. I think I could write a fair bit about each of those attributes where I feel the manager could have done better.

During a dire rut I think it is imperative that a manager still has his players on side and giving 110% for their/his cause. The sad fact of the matter is their not ,plus another plausible factor to consider aswell is that half the players we have can't achieve the performances to pull the team around. I feel man-management during a time like this either makes or breaks a manager, it is well rumoured that Rafa can be a ruthless cold so and so with his playing staff. While many are quick to laugh about the concerns raised by some for not having an "arm around the shoulder" type of manager. I think this attribute now becomes a key factor given the circumstances, because the players should be looking to their manager for inspiration and confidence while at the same time having confidence in his approach and tactics towards their matches. Their all in it together so to speak, but from where I'm sitting Rafa looks as though he's on his own and his players have turned their backs on him.

I've long thought that if you don't build up some sort of social raport with your staff in any proffesion you may not get their backing during tough times. Of course I'm not saying that Rafa is some sort of cold c*nt that hasn't an ounce of personality in him just that he may not have the people skills. I don't know of course I'm just giving an opinion of why I don't think he is able to turn things round and the last honourable thing he can do for the club is to simply walk away from it.

The Alonso article here confirms that he can be ruthless and cold even to his players which I think in times like this can turn around and bite you on the a.rse. Alonso being the proffesional he is is not going to come out and blatantly slate Rafa for stabbing him in the back. If you're able to read between the lines, thats basically the story he is giving. I also believe many other players have left Anfield under Rafa because of egos or personality clashes they've had with eachother, likewise with his backroom staff.

During dire ruts like this you can have the tactics, formations and whatever else spot on but if the players aren't a) willing to perform and b) aren't capable then surely as a manager your days are numbered. I mean look at Gerrard, the bloke looks a patch of his former self and no doubt injuries haven't helped, but the onfield tantrums and the sulky body lanaguage don't exhibit a happy or content player. Its the same with Torres who has been in recent weeks concerntrating on whinging at the refs more than scoring goals. In both cases this could be just born out of frustration that the team aren't performing well or that their heads are dropping under the guidence of Rafa. Gerrard came out last week and said it was the players fault that we've had a dissapointing season and thats all well and good spounting it out to the press. But when it comes to the field of play none of the players have come out and rectified the statement the captain made a week ago.

For me Rafa is as good as gone and I don't see him being able to turn this around the hole is to deep. I appreciate the wonderful memories of Istanbul and the FA cup final during an age where I thought we'd actually kick on. But it wasn't/isn't to be, he's unfortunately taken us as far as he can.

[Judge]

he said before the match - we will try, and try to show quality...up until then he said we had quality

so somethings up..


sorry RAFA, go back to Spain, thanks for 2005, but we need someone else

[Sir Roger]

All the chickens are coming home to roost. Every mistake, misjudgement, mismanaged player will be highlighted and the criticism will gather more and more speed and Rafa will be overwhelmed like a tsunami victim. He is not doing himself any favours by isolating himself by his pathetic comments.
"We will have to work hard" What the f'uck does that mean? Has hard work not already been done? What type of work? Surely not the type that has got us into this sh'it in the first place.
He is like King Canute ordering the tide back.
He is a dead man walking...

[lakes10]

SSN reported ths morning that Ian Rush has said that it might be time for the club to look at a new manager, he has backed Rafa untill now....but he was sitting next to kenny last night.

[tubby]

It's all good and well talking about spending big next season but we need to get through this season first. Last night was shocking.

[Ben Patrick]

Went last night for the first time in ages and it was an absolute shambles.
I actually feel sorry for Rafa, the players to me have given up and were a disgrace.
Having said that he signed these players and he is the manager. The man charged with motivating them and in tough times installing belief etc.
He has clearly not been able to do that this season.
We have had a lot of key players injured that havent helped but again the squad is his squad.
He has shaped it over 5 years and if we cant cope with injuries then the buck stops with him.
We are weak in the same areas that we were 5 years ago and these have not been addressed.
When i got sent the team yesterday by my mate i wasnt that concerned. I thought it was definately strong enough to beat a lowly championship side at home.
I thought the players would come out with fire in their bellies as this was our last chance of winning something on note this season. With united already out and a decent draw next round this was a chance that was there for the taking.
Get some confidence back with a 3 or 4 goal win.
But the players are that devoid of confidence and he (Rafa) appears to not have any idea how to turn it round that we are in a truly awful position.

There is no way that he should be getting called a waiter and slagged off though. The man has put everything he could into this club.
Embraced the city and tried to get us back where we feel we belong.
He brought us the champions league which meant we got to keep the trophy. All that deserves respect.
He should be fondly remembered for what he acheived initially and for what he wanted to achieve too.

But he does need to go, he has had his chance and didnt quite get there. Its a shame and i genuinely wish he could have succeeded, but imo he will always come up short and someone else deserves a chance.
The club comes first.

In a few years people who are supporting him will understand that he had come as far as he could and he will be looked on like Houllier as a decent fella who tried his hardest but wasnt quite able to do what he or we wanted.

[anti-hero]

well i'm all for letting it go. it surprises me even as i type this.   but can we really let him go at this point?  i mean, nevermind the fact that all the newspapers have pointed out already, that it would cost ALOT of money to reorganize the bootroom and all the other staff midseason, but wouldnt we be sulking too if a new manager came in this instant and the results were the same, or poorer? and who would we attract this late into the season?

i dont think the lot of managers that are currently without a club these days would make the grade at anfield, let alone a top draw manager that is probably managing another top club still in the chase for silverware. its harder to come to terms with it, but i think WE WILL be staying with Rafa AT LEAST till the end of this season. so hang on to your horsies.

it would probably be more beneficial to us anyways, less confusion in an already dejected and out of sorts dressing room. imagine midseason, if rafa goes and takes his contingent of spanish coaches with him. and in comes some italian (i say italian because our next manager would most likely be an import   just being honest no? maybe mourinho?) and a bunch of other mustachioed mario looking plumbers, and we have torres and carra and gerrard looking at each other trying to understand what he's trying to say.

but at the same time we all want him to leave because we want CHANGE. we've hoped and hoped. can we hope some more though? because that's the only thing i think we have right now. hope. that somewhere in that 'tactical footballing brain' is a plan to at least, make us look respectable.

[akumaface]

Well, Made in UK, I think Rafa is more old school and believes player should be professional and no need for any cuddling. I think this approach is not wrong but his blindness of faith in certain players kind of contradict that. Players today are spoiled and we shouldn't promote or accept this kind of attitude but the sad fact is that they might indeed need someone to put their arms around their shoulder. Honestly, if you look at the Chelsea team, you can simply just put them on the pitch and they should know how to play regardless. So, tactic isn't as important as it used to be. What worse is seems the players don't even believed in Rafa's tactics. I'm sure if you ask them, they prefer man marking then Zonal when facing set pieces. I don;t think there is anything much that we can say. For Rafa, if he leaves or get canned, he would be just as happy as he will get compensated while teams will be lining up for his service. We as fans are the ones that is left for the suffering....

[Redman in wales]

Went last night for the first time in ages and it was an absolute shambles.
I actually feel sorry for Rafa, the players to me have given up and were a disgrace.
Having said that he signed these players and he is the manager. The man charged with motivating them and in tough times installing belief etc.
He has clearly not been able to do that this season.
We have had a lot of key players injured that havent helped but again the squad is his squad.
He has shaped it over 5 years and if we cant cope with injuries then the buck stops with him.
We are weak in the same areas that we were 5 years ago and these have not been addressed.
When i got sent the team yesterday by my mate i wasnt that concerned. I thought it was definately strong enough to beat a lowly championship side at home.
I thought the players would come out with fire in their bellies as this was our last chance of winning something on note this season. With united already out and a decent draw next round this was a chance that was there for the taking.
Get some confidence back with a 3 or 4 goal win.
But the players are that devoid of confidence and he (Rafa) appears to not have any idea how to turn it round that we are in a truly awful position.

There is no way that he should be getting called a waiter and slagged off though. The man has put everything he could into this club.
Embraced the city and tried to get us back where we feel we belong.
He brought us the champions league which meant we got to keep the trophy. All that deserves respect.
He should be fondly remembered for what he acheived initially and for what he wanted to achieve too.

But he does need to go, he has had his chance and didnt quite get there. Its a shame and i genuinely wish he could have succeeded, but imo he will always come up short and someone else deserves a chance.
The club comes first.

In a few years people who are supporting him will understand that he had come as far as he could and he will be looked on like Houllier as a decent fella who tried his hardest but wasnt quite able to do what he or we wanted.

is right

[lakes10]

it seems to me that Rafa lost the team over the Alonso thinghas not been able to get them back on side, our warm up game were a mess this year, Rafa hand picked them games, we would have been better to stay at home and play teams here.

Rafa dont understad that you just dont win games as you have a better name than then, you still have to give the players an idea of how to beat them.

he needs to talk to the players and get on with them, that would build respect, something that not many have left for him.

Rafa has been his own down fall, i myself think he built a team a few years ago that could have won the prem if used right, he did not use it right and then last year set about selling that team.......and thats where we are today..........a mess.

[lakes10]

now news hub stuff from me for a bit as my mates is off due to his wife having a baby, took its time in coming, 3 weeks late lol

[glenbuck patriot]

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