Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

Poll done by BBC Merseyside

should Rafa Benitez be sacked

69% yes

this is a change from 33% 3 weeks ago.


I dont he will get the sack as there is not another manager about right now, the club will only have sammy in place for a few games and no more.

How many people voted in total? Those things are meaningless unless they say how many actually took part. It's like 606 phone ins, the active base for people that call in is tiny so to be honest all the you hear on the radio are a minority.

[Kharhaz]

You should make your own mind up about Rafa and not take any notice to ex-players or media pundits who have won feck all as managers.

Thats what really winds me up about some of our fans they take what ex-players and Sky pundits say as the bible.

Thats true but it is no different to taking anothers opinion from another LFC Forum and agreeing with that. Its just a form of gathering evidence to back up the reasons why you agree with a situation or disagree with it.

This is something we all do. Paul Tomkins is well known to me because of this forum and the official one. Otherwise I wouldnt know who he was.

References are a common theme for all kind of arguments. The point is to prove that you are not the only one who sees whats right or wrong but to show your not the only one who believes in what you believe.

[The Real Deal]

Europa league with Everton etc is just making us a laughing stock to be honest. 5 times winners etc. the mancs are grinning.

for me for Rafa to keep his job, 4th place is the minimum requirement. City and Spurs etc will be fancying their chances.

Another manager is not neccesarily a bad option, as they would prob play a 4-4-2 instead of this silly 4-2-3-1, too defensive "sideways" playing holding midfielders and only one striker. home and away game after game. the "we are scared to get beat" formation!

A different manager would utilise the players differently. I would play Kuyt and Torres up front most games and a midfield of...babel (RM) Gerrard (CM) Mascha (CM) and Riera.

5th place, he has to go, and I think he would walk anyhow. i don't really care how we do in the Europa league. it has no significance.

Just not Jason Macateer/ John barnes to replace him.

Our problems lie deeper. Rafa has made several bad buys and we don't know if there will be any more big summers left in terms of spending. The squad overall is lacking in flair and quality needed and until that is addressed you can having Mourinho here and he still wouldn't win us shyte.

do you not see how you are undermining your own argument in your comments? you are contradicting yourself pal.

Even I could utilise our squad and make better team selection decisions than rafa does. its so obvious and frustrating it makes you angry.

Its just observation during matches/ performances etc.

why is rafa still at LFC!! ??? i will tell you. its called a 5 year deal!

Rafa is not a risk taker, even mourhinion played a 4-3-3 at anfield one time.

rafa would get a nose bleed if he even set foot near a 4-4-2, home or away.

its a joke the whole thing and we need a change.

[The Real Deal]

Didn't RedNose and Wenger had their "bad", unlucky seasons as well? If you stick to your (one of the best in the word, no one questions that) manager, it will benefit you on the long run.

yeah but didnt fergie and wenger win the league title when they were so unlucky? ? ???

dont undermine your own argument pal.

its all about 1 thing ....quality.

[The Real Deal]

most on here are dead set against changing manager mid-season as it is not "the Liverpool way"............. 

cool. but I was wondering if playing players out of position (kuyt on wing, babel on bench for 80 mins while playing lucas every game.),playing defensively TWO holding midfielders every game, and settling for fourth spot is the "liverpool way"

any one tell me what the "liverpool way" is? according to all of you.!

Bill shankly..." 1st is 1st, 2nd is nowhere!!!!!!

Bill shankly..." making liverpool fc "a bastian of invincibility""

now call me extreme, but thats what I thought LFC was all about?

make your own minds up.

[Kharhaz]

any one tell me what the "liverpool way" is? according to all of you.!
make your own minds up.

Good question. I always took the Liverpool way as creating our own fortune through the talent available to us. As bill shankly created a working ethic through the team it was carried on through bob paisley, joe fagan, kenny dalglish. But as times are changing, and money speaks volumes, its now down to bailing out on the hard work and buying our success. Everytime I hear "its the owners fault", to me it seems like a "we need arab money". Oh wait, DIC spring to mind. Rafa has been in charge long enough to build his own team, those who still blame the owners for our demise are not looking at the bigger picture. Lack of success this season will put pressure on the owners, but lets say they sell up and bugger off. Does this guarantee our future? no, it guarantees nothing. It will always be down to the success on the pitch, and too many excuses have been made to forgive those particular failures.

[Scottbot]

any one tell me what the "liverpool way" is? according to all of you.!
make your own minds up.

Good question. I always took the Liverpool way as creating our own fortune through the talent available to us. As bill shankly created a working ethic through the team it was carried on through bob paisley, joe fagan, kenny dalglish. But as times are changing, and money speaks volumes, its now down to bailing out on the hard work and buying our success. Everytime I hear "its the owners fault", to me it seems like a "we need arab money". Oh wait, DIC spring to mind. Rafa has been in charge long enough to build his own team, those who still blame the owners for our demise are not looking at the bigger picture. Lack of success this season will put pressure on the owners, but lets say they sell up and bugger off. Does this guarantee our future? no, it guarantees nothing. It will always be down to the success on the pitch, and too many excuses have been made to forgive those particular failures.

for me, the Liverpool way is more about the supporters, the city (not that i'm a local!) and the way the club as a whole conducts itself as a whole. It's about singing your heart out, cheering the team on when they need you the most, clapping the opposition when they've played you off the park, clapping ex-players every time they return, it's not booing the team/manager off the pitch no matter how badly they've played, it's not doing our dirty washing in public, acting with class and dignity and rising above the bulls.h..i..t and having pride in our football team NO MATTER HOW BAD THINGS GET.

[tubby]

Europa league with Everton etc is just making us a laughing stock to be honest. 5 times winners etc. the mancs are grinning.

for me for Rafa to keep his job, 4th place is the minimum requirement. City and Spurs etc will be fancying their chances.

Another manager is not neccesarily a bad option, as they would prob play a 4-4-2 instead of this silly 4-2-3-1, too defensive "sideways" playing holding midfielders and only one striker. home and away game after game. the "we are scared to get beat" formation!

A different manager would utilise the players differently. I would play Kuyt and Torres up front most games and a midfield of...babel (RM) Gerrard (CM) Mascha (CM) and Riera.

5th place, he has to go, and I think he would walk anyhow. i don't really care how we do in the Europa league. it has no significance.

Just not Jason Macateer/ John barnes to replace him.

Our problems lie deeper. Rafa has made several bad buys and we don't know if there will be any more big summers left in terms of spending. The squad overall is lacking in flair and quality needed and until that is addressed you can having Mourinho here and he still wouldn't win us shyte.

do you not see how you are undermining your own argument in your comments? you are contradicting yourself pal.

Even I could utilise our squad and make better team selection decisions than rafa does. its so obvious and frustrating it makes you angry.

Its just observation during matches/ performances etc.

why is rafa still at LFC!! ??? i will tell you. its called a 5 year deal!

Rafa is not a risk taker, even mourhinion played a 4-3-3 at anfield one time.

rafa would get a nose bleed if he even set foot near a 4-4-2, home or away.

its a joke the whole thing and we need a change.

Ill say again, when he has been allowed to spend however much is needed for his 1st choice he has always brought in players who do well.

When you shop in bargain basement what do you expect?

[Yossi_Benaloon]

Rafa Benitez could be benefitting from the global financial crisis. Football clubs have been hit in the same way as many businesses and Liverpool would have to give Benitez a large pay-off as he recently signed a new long-term contract. This Premier League discussion about managerial sackings reckons many clubs around the world cannot afford to sack their managers anymore - something which Rafa could be benefitting from.

I dont agree that all of Rafa's big signings have been a sucess, the likes of Babel,Robbie Keane and many in the £5mill to £10mill bracket (Dossenna, Skrtel, Leiva, Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy, Morientes, Garcia) have failed to impress or even stick around long at Anfield.

[Owzat]

When you shop in bargain basement what do you expect?

Bargain basement?!?!?!? Do you believe these exaggerations when you type them?!?!?!?

£21m Torres
£20.3m Keane
£20m Aquilani
£18.6m Mascherano
£17.5m Johnson

Hardly all bosmans and £500k snips. Might be a good time to do what I meant to a while back

Premiership sides who have never paid more than £10m for a player

£9.65m Aston Villa (Young)
£9m West Ham (Nesereko)
£9m Portsmouth (Defoe)
£8m Blackburn (Andy Cole)
£8m Bolton (Anelka)
£6.5m Wolves (Doyle)
£6m Wigan (N'Zogbia)
£5.5m Stoke (Kitson)
£5m Hull (Bullard)
£4.75m Birmingham (McFadden)
£3m Burnley (Steven Fletcher)

Over half the Premiership haven't paid out £10m+ on a player, another handful haven't paid more than £12m (Sunderland, Fulham, Bitters), so put everything into perspective a) we spend a lot more than most sides and yet don't always beat those we outspend, b) you don't absolutely have to spend big to land quality and c) our squad cost around £150m so shouldn't be losing as often as we do, no excuses of "lack of money".

[Penguins]

When you shop in bargain basement what do you expect?

Bargain basement?!?!?!? Do you believe these exaggerations when you type them?!?!?!?

£21m Torres
£20.3m Keane
£20m Aquilani
£18.6m Mascherano
£17.5m Johnson

Hardly all bosmans and £500k snips. Might be a good time to do what I meant to a while back

Premiership sides who have never paid more than £10m for a player

£9.65m Aston Villa (Young)
£9m West Ham (Nesereko)
£9m Portsmouth (Defoe)
£8m Blackburn (Andy Cole)
£8m Bolton (Anelka)
£6.5m Wolves (Doyle)
£6m Wigan (N'Zogbia)
£5.5m Stoke (Kitson)
£5m Hull (Bullard)
£4.75m Birmingham (McFadden)
£3m Burnley (Steven Fletcher)

Over half the Premiership haven't paid out £10m+ on a player, another handful haven't paid more than £12m (Sunderland, Fulham, Bitters), so put everything into perspective a) we spend a lot more than most sides and yet don't always beat those we outspend, b) you don't absolutely have to spend big to land quality and c) our squad cost around £150m so shouldn't be losing as often as we do, no excuses of "lack of money".

But look how those buys were funded?
Mostly by sales or loans.

Check instead how much each club has sold for these past 5 years!!

If Rafa sells Alonso for 30 million straight cash and is allowed to spend 20 million over 3 year installments to get a replacement, I wouldn't call that having loads of cash.

And you can turn those numbers anyway you want, Rafa's net spend is 16-17 million/year which is how much he has been able to spend if he doesn't sell anyone.

and to you a b and c.

a) no, but by spending more the likelyhood of beating those team increase(see Chelski)
b) no, but it is much easier to get guaranteed quality by spending big.(see Chelski)
c) well, and when you can only field a team worth less than 100 million on the field most of the season that comparision
goes out of the window. This is where it helps to have a strong bench(see Chelski)

[tubby]

When you shop in bargain basement what do you expect?

Bargain basement?!?!?!? Do you believe these exaggerations when you type them?!?!?!?

£21m Torres
£20.3m Keane
£20m Aquilani
£18.6m Mascherano
£17.5m Johnson

Hardly all bosmans and £500k snips. Might be a good time to do what I meant to a while back

Premiership sides who have never paid more than £10m for a player

£9.65m Aston Villa (Young)
£9m West Ham (Nesereko)
£9m Portsmouth (Defoe)
£8m Blackburn (Andy Cole)
£8m Bolton (Anelka)
£6.5m Wolves (Doyle)
£6m Wigan (N'Zogbia)
£5.5m Stoke (Kitson)
£5m Hull (Bullard)
£4.75m Birmingham (McFadden)
£3m Burnley (Steven Fletcher)

Over half the Premiership haven't paid out £10m+ on a player, another handful haven't paid more than £12m (Sunderland, Fulham, Bitters), so put everything into perspective a) we spend a lot more than most sides and yet don't always beat those we outspend, b) you don't absolutely have to spend big to land quality and c) our squad cost around £150m so shouldn't be losing as often as we do, no excuses of "lack of money".

How much was Zorba the Greek? And Agger when we were meant to be in for Vidic. What about Pennant? Were we not initially looking at Simao?

You must be thinking I said we always shop in bargain basement. What I have said is when he has been allowed to spend big he has for the most part brought in players who do well and that cannot be disputed. But the rest of the time we are shopping in bargain basement.

Anyway here statto this is for Saint and Mick.

£13.3Mil net spend dispels this great fallacy over Rafa Benitez

I bet I am not the only Liverpool fan who is sick to the back teeth of what seems to be a relentless barracking of Rafa Benitez from pundits, ex-players and our old friends in the media. It has been incredibly unfair and in my eyes totally unwarranted.

This season has been a disaster, nobody will ever question that, but let’s be honest it is the worse spell we have had under Benitez. Our great frustration over the past seasons hasn’t been that we haven’t made any progress, but more the fact that we have thrown away great opportunities to go that bit further, due to the fact we are short of genuine quality in depth within the squad, or the players that can unlock the most resolute of defences.

There is this great fallacy within football that Rafa Benitez has spent shed loads of money, whilst choosing to ignore about how much money has actually been brought in. Fortunately Gab Marcotti has been the only journalist to come out in his column in the Times to provide the balance to the argument and it certainly made for interesting reading, no more so than it showed the shortfall, or the actual deficit with ins and outs is £80m, which over six seasons actually amounts to £13.3m per season; hardly a massive outlay is it, especially when you get nearly £40m for being in the Premier League per season alone.

Like it is with Marcotti, this is the fact that frustrates me the most and if you compare us to a team like Tottenham who never get anywhere near the Champions League. They spend £14-17m on two or three players every season, yet Rafa isn’t afforded that luxury and he has to make silk purses out of pig’s sows; it is hardly ideal, especially when you look at the amount that Chelsea and Manchester United have spent to help them land a title.

I have a lot of sympathy for Benitez and it is a shame at the first signs of trouble that everyone has gang up on him and not been reflective of the giant strides the side has made during his tenure. They say one swallow doesn’t make a summer and a run of bad results shouldn’t cloud what a fabulous job, under tough circumstances, that Benitez has done for Liverpool football club.

---------

I'll try to dig out the original article from Marcotti.

[The Real Deal]

The biggest contributors to a "sack rafa" thread.....

Dazzer          186
Benny The Noon 118
s@int            85
DAV                  82
Lando_Griffin 79
lakes10          78
Emerald Red 74
heimdall          74
bigmick          70
7_Kewell          58
NANNY RED 58
Reg                  52
Igor Zidane 39
LFC2007          36
Rush Job          31
Greavesie          29
Owzat          27
Ciggy          26
bavlondon          25
The_Rock          24

shall we go round to their houses with pistols then?

your point??

unless you can bring forth any reality of your own pal. please keep quiet!  sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Real Deal]

he has always brought in players who do well.

When you shop in bargain basement what do you expect?

Listen mate have you seen many games this season?

lol lol lol lol lol lol

[account deleted by request]

Premier League agents' fees table
Total fees

Manchester City £12,874,283
Chelsea £9,562,223
Liverpool £6,657,305 
Tottenham Hotspur £6,066,935
Wigan Athletic £5,527,548
Arsenal £4,760,241
West Ham United  £3,576,972
Portsmouth £3,184,725
Bolton Wanderers £3,166,611
Everton £2,008,407
Sunderland £2,007,040
Aston Villa £1,708,374
Hull City £1,599,188
Manchester United £1,517,393
Blackburn Rovers £1,610,885
Fulham £1,469,258
Wolverhampton  £1,235,703
Birmingham City £974,982
Stoke City £716,042
Burnley £468,398
Total: £70,692,513

The figures regard payments to agents for the period October 1, 2008 to September 30, 2009.

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1232205/Manchester-City-Chelsea-Liverpool-big-spenders-Premier-League-clubs-pay-70m-agents-12-mont


hs.html?ITO=1490]LINK TO ARTICLE[/url]

You had better get your excuses in early Bav    Way I see it is either Rafa is a mug who pays over the odds to agents, or we have spent more than anyone bar Citeh and Chelsea on transfers