Liverpool FC Forum

[Redman in wales]

The topic is about how Roys footie is evolving why people persist on bringing up last season has nothing to do with Roys teams evolving.

i dont know ciggy. benny was going on about it being the worst start for 18 years (which is the post I replied to). you're right, neither that or last season have anything to do with roys footie evolving. its got even less to do with roys fulham, who have a completely different set of players to Liverpool football club (well almost completly - *cough Paul K cough*)

[jacdaniel]

1. Why do we play significantly better second halves than first halves? Is Roy only a master at motivating at half time, or what?

Thats a difficult question to answer i guess.  My honest opinion is that we're too focused on trying to contain the opposition during the first half.
Perhaps we're giving teams too much respect.

But in the 2nd half we start to actually play a bit.  usually cos plan A to contain hasn't worked.  Against the likes of united, City, Arsenal, Trabzonspor and even Steuna we were in a bad position at half time so had to attack more.

Maybe we should focus on playing our own game from the start.

[fivecups]

2 reasons we were beaten yesterday for starters.

1. United have better players.
2. United's team are much more established. Compare:

1. Reina  > VDS
2. Johnson  =  O'Shea
3. Carra     <   Vidic
4. Skrtel    <   Evans
5. Konchesky <<  Evra
6. Maxi      <<     Nani
7. Poulsen  <<    Fletcher
8. Gerrard   =   Scholes (in CM)
9. Cole     =     Giggs
10. Meireles  < Rooney
11. Torres   <  Berbatov (with Nandos poor current form)

So there were some vague statements in the match thread about what Roy should have done differently - been more attacking, played Babel not Maxi, kept Meireles on etc. I think Roy did fairly well - I would have considered swapping Gerrard and Meireles but I'm not sure I would have setup radically differently. I was also impressed that he had the attacking nous to go 4-4-2 and that it worked as I would have expected us to get destroyed in midfield.

5/11 of our players in their first season at the club, 0/11 for them.

[jacdaniel]

4-4-2 worked well for us yesterday cos united were also playing it and we weren't over run in Midfield.

When we were playing 4-5-1... it didn't work cos we had no width.

[Thommo's perm]

I am not ar'sed about formations because a good side will play well and win whatever the formation.
I will start with the positives. We were narrowly beaten by the champions elect. At their ground in front of their fans. We came within a whisker of beating them and they know it. We played with more confidence in the second half and actually looked like a team. It was a quite evenly matched game with their tenacity eventually paying dividends and getting the winning goal at the end.
Nobody in their right mind could say that we were sh'it and deserved to get beat because we played well eneough to get the draw at least.
On the negative side. Konchesky is rope. He is as bad if not worse than Insua positional wise. I have seen enough of him to know he will always be caught out with a winger behind him. Two of Berbatovs goals were a result of crosses from the wing Konchesky was supposed to be defending. The first goal was an absolute joke whereby our defender on the post (Konchesky) for some reason decided to edge himself to the middle of the goal, behind the keeper, so as to lose sight of the ball that eventually went past him into the net.
Johnson is a big tart in my opinion, who spends more time fixing his hair than playing football. If only he put so much effort into taking people on and putting dangerous crosses into the box. He needs a good kick up the ar'se to liven him up. Maxi is also a serious waste of time with limited or no input into the game.
By and large I thought Roy got it right yesterday and I was pleased with the performance if not the result. A bit more self belief and confidence from the players and we could have won yesterday. They werent that far ahead and I look forward to their visit where Im sure we will take all the points.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Why would I be happy ?! Please elaborate ? I would say I'm the totally opposite and currently very happy with what I am seeing - there is not one reason to be happy .

A truly beautiful freudian slip   

Yep it was a typing error which I have corrected so please tell me why I would be happy currently when I see our team so low in the league ?

Benny,

Bear in mind one last minute cock up (Reina v Arsenal) is the difference between 16th and 8th.

That is called perspective.

Only Chelsea can truly say they have met season start expectations. I think if we were actually 8th not many would of had problems with the start of the season considering it is the transition of one manager to the next.

[bigmick]

Well, I have two questions:

1. Why do we play significantly better second halves than first halves? Is Roy only a master at motivating at half time, or what?

I think this is a set-up and mindset question, and it's something we are going to have to improve upon. I do have some sympathy with Roy in that as soon as he arrived the best fans in the land were mounting a campaign to undermine him, but I really do think that as difficult as it probably is, he has to put the criticism to the back of his mind and go for it more. At the moment, I can't help but think that the orchestrated clamour on the internet forums from people who don't want him sacked, is forcing him into a more defensive "mustn't get beat" mentality than he needs.

[sgs]

How are we evolving? Here's Daniel Agger's opinion:



Daniel Agger has admitted that he is frustrated by Roy Hodgson’s style of play at Liverpool.

The attack-minded defender will be eager to forget his brief cameo at Old Trafford yesterday after failing to prevent the cross that led to Dimitar Berbatov’s winning goal just two minutes after he had replaced Paul Konchesky at left-back.

Agger, who was also left out of the starting line-up against Birmingham City last weekend, has lifted the lid on his frustrations behind Hodgson’s approach to games and has refused to alter his natural game despite fears that it could see him overlooked for a regular place in the side.

He said: "The manager's philosophy is that we play football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style.

“I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he [Hodgson] doesn't want to play me because of that".

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who offloads the ball at every opportunity."

"I'll fight for my chance. I know what I stand for, and I think he [Hodgson] does too".

[Benny The Noon]

Where is this campaign ? Does the manager read the forums now and read the critisim he is getting for things he is doing ?

The internet forums are dictating how he plays ?!?!  seriously !!!!!

[Thommo's perm]

2 reasons we were beaten yesterday for starters.

1. United have better players.
2. United's team are much more established. Compare:

1. Reina  > VDS
2. Johnson  =  O'Shea
3. Carra     <   Vidic
4. Skrtel    <   Evans
5. Konchesky <<  Evra
6. Maxi      <<     Nani
7. Poulsen  <<    Fletcher
8. Gerrard   =   Scholes (in CM)
9. Cole     =     Giggs
10. Meireles  < Rooney
11. Torres   <  Berbatov (with Nandos poor current form)

So there were some vague statements in the match thread about what Roy should have done differently - been more attacking, played Babel not Maxi, kept Meireles on etc. I think Roy did fairly well - I would have considered swapping Gerrard and Meireles but I'm not sure I would have setup radically differently. I was also impressed that he had the attacking nous to go 4-4-2 and that it worked as I would have expected us to get destroyed in midfield.

5/11 of our players in their first season at the club, 0/11 for them.

I would say in comparison thy are better, but only just.

1. Reina  > VDS               Reina
2. Johnson  =  O'Shea       equal
3. Carra     <   Vidic          Vidic, just
4. Skrtel    <   Evans         equal
5. Konchesky <<  Evra       Evra
6. Maxi      <<     Nani       Nani is a moaning whinging bitch, but he is better than Maxi
7. Poulsen  <<    Fletcher   equal
8. Gerrard   =   Scholes (in CM) Gerrard
9. Cole     =     Giggs         equal
10. Meireles  < Rooney      equal
11. Torres   <  Berbatov    based on current form berbatov. But I wouldnt swap him for Torres
They arent that much better, but they are a more atacking side.

[Benny The Noon]

1. Reina  - VDS               Reina
2. Johnson  -  O'Shea       Johnson
3. Carra     -  Vidic          Vidic
4. Skrtel    -   Evans        Evans
5. Konchesky - Evra       Evra
6. Maxi      -     Nani       Nani
7. Poulsen  -   Fletcher   Fletcher
8. Gerrard   -  Scholes     Gerrard
9. Cole     -    Giggs         Giggs
10. Meireles  - Rooney      Rooney
11. Torres   -  Berbatov   Torres

[fivecups]

2 reasons we were beaten yesterday for starters.

1. United have better players.
2. United's team are much more established. Compare:

1. Reina  > VDS
2. Johnson  =  O'Shea
3. Carra     <   Vidic
4. Skrtel    <   Evans
5. Konchesky <<  Evra
6. Maxi      <<     Nani
7. Poulsen  <<    Fletcher
8. Gerrard   =   Scholes (in CM)
9. Cole     =     Giggs
10. Meireles  < Rooney
11. Torres   <  Berbatov (with Nandos poor current form)

So there were some vague statements in the match thread about what Roy should have done differently - been more attacking, played Babel not Maxi, kept Meireles on etc. I think Roy did fairly well - I would have considered swapping Gerrard and Meireles but I'm not sure I would have setup radically differently. I was also impressed that he had the attacking nous to go 4-4-2 and that it worked as I would have expected us to get destroyed in midfield.

5/11 of our players in their first season at the club, 0/11 for them.

I would say in comparison thy are better, but only just.

1. Reina  > VDS               Reina
2. Johnson  =  O'Shea       equal
3. Carra     <   Vidic          Vidic, just
4. Skrtel    <   Evans         equal
5. Konchesky <<  Evra       Evra
6. Maxi      <<     Nani       Nani is a moaning whinging bitch, but he is better than Maxi
7. Poulsen  <<    Fletcher   equal
8. Gerrard   =   Scholes (in CM) Gerrard
9. Cole     =     Giggs         equal
10. Meireles  < Rooney      equal
11. Torres   <  Berbatov    based on current form berbatov. But I wouldnt swap him for Torres
They arent that much better, but they are a more atacking side.

Totally agree about Torres although he's badly out of form (and still doesn't look fit?) but I've got to say I think Fletcher is a quality player, one of those that's everywhere and involved in everything for 90 minutes, and one of the reasons we didn't win the midfield, even with an extra man yesterday. Too early to judge Poulsen yet but I'll be surprised if he reaches Fletchers level.

[bigmick]

While the posse are compiling their "I don't believe what I'm hearing" posts, I'll explain what I mean with regards to yesterday.

For me the principal error in our set up was that we played Gerrard too close to Poulsen and not close enough to Torres. people said they would have swapped Mereiles and Gerrard but that would have been wsorse IMHO. No, Mereiles was fine where he was, but Gerrard was 30 yards too deep much of the time. We really ought to have gone in with a back four plus Poulsen in front, and said to the other five to get up there when we've got it.

Equally, we played Maxi which for me was a negative move. he was played principally to keep the ball I suspect, he isn't going to cause Man Utd any problems, he's there to give us an out and ping it about. Now he couldn't do it of course, because they got in his face a bit and as we know he doesn't like it. Even if he had played well though, I think his inclusion was a missed opportunity to play a more offensive player.

To that end, we have three options. Babel is obviously the first and I thought he was unlucky not to play after his energetic performance in midweek. Pacheco is the second option, and although he is probably too lightwieght he would have offered no less than maxi, and crucially like babel WOULD provide a semblance of implied threat at the very least. The third option though is the one I am more and more leaning towards. I advocated buying Glen Johnson many moons ago when he was out of favour at Chelsea. He looked then as he looks now to me, namely a right sided midfielder who's playing at full back. I think with our vulnberability aerially, the time has come to push Johnson to the right and move Carragher to right back. The Greek can play down the middle, and I think we'd have balance. Derek Kuyt can take his chances up top.

Now as for mindset, I agreed with Roy when he said we had to contain Man Utd (of course we did but we didn't manage it in the end) but I didn't agree with the "first and foremost" elelement of it. I think if we had been spunkier going forward, more committed to hurt them, we have had to take less blows from their attacks. It's all about balance really as it always has been, and ours is still not quite right.

[Benny The Noon]

A few people have mentioned playing Johnson higher up but IMO i dont think it will work - Johnson playing right mid will be marked throughout the game and he doesnt have the ability to go past players when tightly marked - for me his best ability is when he bursts forward from that right back position and when he is space and uses the space created by a right mid who has cut in and then he overlaps bursting onto balls. Play him at right mid and IMO it nulifies his best attributes . When Kuyt is back we will see Johnson back to his best attacking wise - they work very well together .

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Here's my personal take on what's wrong with Roy's tactics...... they don't work  and they will continue to do exactly that until he bins his football philosophy of allowing opposing teams the lions share of possession and to push up on our midfield.... because whilst looking precise enough on a chalkboard it will always fail dismally when applied in practice ..... The manager needs to go back to basics starting with the defence, he needs to concentrate on making that area solid ...Konchesky and Johnson are amongst the most inept defenders I have ever had the misfortune to see in a Red shirt ...he needs to play Gerrard as a winger again ,until we get someone capable of producing a decent ball into the box ,or who possesses the propensity to beat a man ,we need to push higher up the pitch and compress the play and most of all he needs to give Cole a free role ....failing that he needs to give Torres a partner up front the lad looks demoralized ...
The season is in its infancy and It can still be rectified at this early stage ...but time is ticking on and the mentality of the manager needs to change drastically ,Liverpool fans may well be patient ,but we are not fools give us something to instil a touch of hope Roy, because your willingness to accept draws might have reflected the mindset of Fulham fans, but Liverpool fans tend not to conform if the manager is intent on fiddling while Rome burns ..............