Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

As Mick has highlighted, though, the major curiosity was dropping Crouch for a game he seemed tailor made for.  The big man, combining with Bellamy or Robbie, could have caused SU real problems at the back--particularly with Gonzales and Gerrard running onto knock downs and lay-offs as well.  Here I assume Rafa was resting him for Maccabi Haifa.  Why Crouch needs resting at this stage of the season, though, as somewhat beyond me--no matter how knackered he may have been on Wednesday.  I also think this is where the injuries really told, as I'm sure Crouch would have come on had Rafa had that extra substitution available. 

There's a big difference between giving the Premiership priority over the group stages of the CL and failing to qualify. I'd love us to win No 19 more than anything but everyone should realise that the real money and kudos is in Europe now. If we want to attract the best players we need both the cash and the offer of CL footie.

We have to qualify and Rafa knows that. If we'd gubbed Haifa 3-0 in the first leg you may well have seen Crouch at Bramall Lane and we may well have taken all 3 points. We didn't so we've only ourselves to blame really.

Let's qualify and then get on with the league. I expect a much better performance against West Ham next weekend and I'm sure we'll get it.

[Ciggy]

Well 8 changes tonight, ok 3 where forced upon us, but still a worry.
Ecspecially with so many new face's in the squad, and they all have to fight for their place and earn their wages.
But I worry so much, so many miss placed passes and no fluidity to the game, we where better tonight than we where on saturday.
But FFS we should have buried that lot tonight within the first 20 mins.
I know its going to take time, but I dont really think we can afford a team in transition at this moment if Im honest.
If there was one player I would have kept it had to be Didi Hamann, I think we where foolish to let him go, so much experience so much of a cool head, I feel we should have hung on to him, but alas he has gone.

The team are still under performing, and we looked so good against Chelsea, this is what I have a problem with why we only raise our game against our rivals.

There is something at LFC I dont know what it is but we always make it harder for ourselves than it actually is.
The sooner this hoodoo is lifted the better, cause it does my feckin head in.

[Ciggy]

BTW the Valencia fans used to hate Rafa chopping and changing the team on a consitant basis, but he won them 2 LA Liga's I bet they wish he was still there now.
I am not to sure if the same tactics can be applied in the prem, cause its new to us and everyone else.
Only time will tell, but thats why he earns as much in a week than I earn in a year.
Plus he's not blonde

[adamnbarrett]

Saturday showed the "Drop Alonso we've got Momo and Gerrard" brigade up bigtime. He makes us tick and we missed his creativity from the middle of the park.

I disagree slightly. Yes we did miss Alonso's creativity but i think it was because Gerrard was out wide rather than central with Momo. I think had we have played with Pennant and Gonzalez from the start we wouldn't have missed him so much.

But one of our main problems on saturday was the fact that we didn't get the ball to gerrard enough. Zenden and momo aren't good enough passers to spread the play out to the wing to gerrard and therefore he didn't get the ball enough. This meant he had to move inside to receive the ball but he left Kromkamp unprotected so he ended up giving away silly free kicks like the one they scored from.

Once stevie was put back into the middle of the park he and the team did better because he was getting more of the ball.

So in conclusion, if gerrard is on the right, we must play alonso. If gerrard is in the middle, then we should play momo, or even alonso still becuase then you have twice the amount of creativity but it depends who you are playing.

With momo expected to be out for 2-3 weeks. I expect Stevie and Xabi in the middle with Pennant on the wing.

[Bretc]

I was fuming when Gerrard was forced to switch to the centre to try and start our attacking move against SU. 2 issues here,

1) Gap left unfilled on the right.
2) What's the point of playing Zenden then?

Zenden was supposed to do his job, which was to start our attacking moves. But what did he do? Nothing! And so Gerrard gotto do Zenden's job. If not for the injuries, I'm sure Rafa would have taken him off for Pennant. No point to have 2 players doing the same task.

I'm ok with the rotation of players but one thing that still irks mi is the over-reliance on Gerrard. When Gerrard plays, the rest seem to slack off and are happy to let the captain run the show. This must be addressed asap. What happens if Gerrard has an off day? Players like Alonso and Sissoko must step forward and make their presence felt even with Gerrard on the field. They must believe in themselves, they have qualities which even our Captain Marvel cannot provide. No one is better than Alonso in terms of long range radar passes and Sissoko is the best in snapping away and closing down opponent

[BOODIDDY]

our players are not physically fit yet, hence the rotation. The number  of injuries has been unfortunate and so rafa has been slightly hampered. One win, a draw and progression to the cl proper. I'll take it. A win on sat and bingo, we are off and running.

[bigmick]

Well, Chelsea have won and Man Utd have won so no surprises there. My feeling is that we may quickly be made to pay for the extremely lacklustre home performance against Macabi Haifa and the baffling decision in that game to go with Bellamy and Garcia up front. Because we barely scraped home in that game we had had to hold players back for the second leg, and life being life one thing led to another at Bramhall Lane.

Rafa has no bigger fan on these boards than me, I think he is a brilliant manager but I think he has called it wrong here. You didn't need to be Einstein to work out that our start was not easy, and we should have been out of the blocks with an up and at 'em performance against the Israeli's. A 3-0 win there would have meant that we could have gone to Sheffield United with the intention of taking them apart, as opposed to the tentative way in which we felt our way in yesterday.

People may accuse me of over reacting but say for instance we beat West Ham at home which won't be a walkover, then draw at Everton we could be four points behind the leaders before the visit to Stamford Bridge. Defeat there would put us seven points behind and in the same position as last season, chasing shadows early doors.

Sooner later we will realise that the Premiership has changed. When teams get in excess of ninety points in a season you've got to hit the ground running, right from thr first whistle. If we had torn into Sheffield United from the first whistle with proper intent, I am absolutely certain we would have won the game comfortably.

Just got a bit bored and nobody was around so's I thought I'd flick back to the point where we lost our way last season, ie the first game. I really hope that this season we try and hit the ground running.

[account deleted by request]

I think it is vital that we start this season with a team as close as possible to the one that finished last year. Results are so vital this early one, I agree that we should be looking to build some momentum and rhythm before we go gung ho and with introducing new players. If Finnan and Alonso were not fit enough yesterday then I think that Rafa made a mistake not playing Gerrard in the centre alongside Sissoko and Pennant on the right, but an even bigger mistake was not to play Crouch, like Mick has pointed out. A focal point to the team is vital and I’m sure Crouch could have managed these 2 games against Sheff Utd and Haifa and then be rested for the West Ham game were Kuyt could have made his debut.

Rotation is a vital part of the modern game and must be used, that is why Rafa has built a squad of such quality and variety. But we must accept that were we will seek high payoffs with rotation we will also be taking risks with high consequences. As long as Rafa is getting it right most of the time (which he does) then it is definitely worth it, even though I feel he got it slightly wrong in this case. But in his defence, had those 2 injuries not occurred so early on I believe we would have won this game.

On the whole, we should be trying to start with a team that resembles the one that showed such fantastic from last year, and then bed in the new players once we have some momentum and rhythm.

While I agree that Gerrard should have played central midfield, I am not so sure Rafa could afford to play Crouch. Crouch looked absolutely knackered at the end of the England game, and we have a game of even more importance against Haifa coming up.
           If Rafa had played Crouch yesterday and we had got all 3 points, but then lost to Haifa because Crouch wasnt fit, that would be a disaster. Losing 2 points while being very upsetting can ,and hopefully will be overcome in the next 37 games, lose against Haifa and we are out.

I think I had a point too, if we had gone out against Haifa our season WOULD have been over before it started  Remember it was Crouch that scored the goal that got us through !

[maguskwt]

I think it is vital that we start this season with a team as close as possible to the one that finished last year. Results are so vital this early one, I agree that we should be looking to build some momentum and rhythm before we go gung ho and with introducing new players. If Finnan and Alonso were not fit enough yesterday then I think that Rafa made a mistake not playing Gerrard in the centre alongside Sissoko and Pennant on the right, but an even bigger mistake was not to play Crouch, like Mick has pointed out. A focal point to the team is vital and I’m sure Crouch could have managed these 2 games against Sheff Utd and Haifa and then be rested for the West Ham game were Kuyt could have made his debut.

Rotation is a vital part of the modern game and must be used, that is why Rafa has built a squad of such quality and variety. But we must accept that were we will seek high payoffs with rotation we will also be taking risks with high consequences. As long as Rafa is getting it right most of the time (which he does) then it is definitely worth it, even though I feel he got it slightly wrong in this case. But in his defence, had those 2 injuries not occurred so early on I believe we would have won this game.

On the whole, we should be trying to start with a team that resembles the one that showed such fantastic from last year, and then bed in the new players once we have some momentum and rhythm.

While I agree that Gerrard should have played central midfield, I am not so sure Rafa could afford to play Crouch. Crouch looked absolutely knackered at the end of the England game, and we have a game of even more importance against Haifa coming up.
           If Rafa had played Crouch yesterday and we had got all 3 points, but then lost to Haifa because Crouch wasnt fit, that would be a disaster. Losing 2 points while being very upsetting can ,and hopefully will be overcome in the next 37 games, lose against Haifa and we are out.

I think I had a point too, if we had gone out against Haifa our season WOULD have been over before it started  Remember it was Crouch that scored the goal that got us through !

I'm afraid Rafa bullshits sometimes... even when crouch was scoring he drops him the next game... 

[Ciggy]

Had to bump this looks like we are in for another season of rotation with the forwards
Rafa said you know how I love to rotate my players thats the idea to have 4 strikers...

OHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOO................................Here we go again.
No doubt this topic will be bumped during the new season

[Igor Zidane]

Had to bump this looks like we are in for another season of rotation with the forwards
Rafa said you know how I love to rotate my players thats the idea to have 4 strikers...

OHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOO................................Here we go again.
No doubt this topic will be bumped during the new season

Noooooooooooooooo lynds not again 

[Ciggy]

Had to bump this looks like we are in for another season of rotation with the forwards
Rafa said you know how I love to rotate my players thats the idea to have 4 strikers...

OHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOO................................Here we go again.
No doubt this topic will be bumped during the new season

Noooooooooooooooo lynds not again 

Fraid so...............  
Only that Im really happy Torres is here Id be probably going off on a rant now.

[red37]

He was talking about a striker weighing in with 20 odd goals a season and he goes..."id rather have four strikers scoring 15 each"  along them lines anyway.

Which reminds me of a point:

Are the days of the old fashioned front two numbered now? Or have they been for a while, maybe an idea for another thread....one of them who can be ar5ed typing stuff out might open up a debate who knows..

[crillylfc]

surely EL NINO will escape this rotation!!