Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

because a new manager would come in and wont to work his own ideas just liek rafa has and wants too - he is 4 years into it and is getting close . Unless a new owner comes in and give rafa os someone unlimited funds then things need to be built step by step not the way chelsea did it when they went crazy with money . succes or winning the title doesnt just happen over night - it needs to be worked on .

Yes so backing away from the 5 year quote a bit now are we. Of course it takes a bit of time but no way should it need 5 years to get your own team in place, especially if you are taking over a very decent team like Liverpool now are.

[Lando_Griffin]

yeah Bob im a bit perplexed about the fact we are a bit short on options now but cant see what we can do about it bar hope torres doesnt get hurt and maybe one of the youngsters gets a go in the fa cup and steps up .

Well of course there's nothing we can do about it...we're all just bystanders to the train wreck.  That doesn't mean we can't feel mighty hacked off about how it all played out.  Sorry but I'm not yet to the point of shrugging my shoulders and saying 'oh well, I guess we'll just have to get on with it.'  Not by a long way. 

No probs with that Bob and can understand (when someone syas it more sensibly as opposed to coming on just slagging off the manager ) your thinking . i guess im just one of those people that will wait and see and reserve judgement .

With the greatest respect, there's no need to wait and see. We are taking a huge gamble for the remainder of the season, and what is there to wait and see about? As long as Torres stays fit, we'll probably perhaps maybe just get away with it. It won't make it right though.

It's akin to selling all our reserve goalies (might take a while I know but run with me on this) and saying lets just hope Reina stays fit, He probably will in truth as goalies normally do, but it wouldn't make the decision right.

The absolutely only debate that I can see, the only thing which is infact debateABLE is how much pressure if any the manager was put under to sell, how much of a financial consideration was it?

On the other stuff there's no need to "wait and see", to sell Keane without a replacement is palpably ridiculous.

So Keane was one of only two strikers at Liverpool FC?

Give over, you big pudding.

[crazyhorse]

That is a great post Crazy - and another good point of view about the age and development of players .

Thank you. I appreciate that.

My point is that Keane is a very good player. And at his age he may well be at his peak... Going to LFC for a player like him can result in two things.. strie to get better and play the best football in your career - Macca at Real, Mcmahon at Liverpool, HYYPIA at Liverpool...

Or.. think that you are already a great player.. Schevchenko (spl) at Chelski, Morientes at Liverpool, KEANE at Liverpool!!!!

Keane loves our club, but THOUGHT he was already good enough.. That for me was why he was not.

Its is plain now that Rafa never really fancied him.. he has his reasons and who are we to question him.. how many La liga titles has anyone on here won? or CL?... What worries me is the timing. A week ago we could have got in a Podolski, or an Adriano to replace him.. but now we have to go the rest of the season with N Gog and Kuyt. It is a worry and I wonder if Rafa is making a point with the directors here. I fear our title challenge has been comprimised for the sake of Benitez's contract negotiations.

[GYBS]

how long do you think it would take then ? with limited funds that we have ? give us a rough idea - also considering the fact that man utd will keep getting strnoger and buying big world class players when they want too ?

[heimdall]

yes i am for real ace - if you want to have a pop at the argument then go explain to crazy as he is the one that brought up the point i just agreed with him .

I can confirm that you are for real, a real pain in the that is, just kidding mate   

anyway that's enough from me for one day, I enjoyed that debate, no hard feelings anybody.

[Rush Job]

yeah Bob im a bit perplexed about the fact we are a bit short on options now but cant see what we can do about it bar hope torres doesnt get hurt and maybe one of the youngsters gets a go in the fa cup and steps up .

Well of course there's nothing we can do about it...we're all just bystanders to the train wreck.  That doesn't mean we can't feel mighty hacked off about how it all played out.  Sorry but I'm not yet to the point of shrugging my shoulders and saying 'oh well, I guess we'll just have to get on with it.'  Not by a long way. 

No probs with that Bob and can understand (when someone syas it more sensibly as opposed to coming on just slagging off the manager ) your thinking . i guess im just one of those people that will wait and see and reserve judgement .

With the greatest respect, there's no need to wait and see. We are taking a huge gamble for the remainder of the season, and what is there to wait and see about? As long as Torres stays fit, we'll probably perhaps maybe just get away with it. It won't make it right though.

It's akin to selling all our reserve goalies (might take a while I know but run with me on this) and saying lets just hope Reina stays fit, He probably will in truth as goalies normally do, but it wouldn't make the decision right.

The absolutely only debate that I can see, the only thing which is infact debateABLE is how much pressure if any the manager was put under to sell, how much of a financial consideration was it?

On the other stuff there's no need to "wait and see", to sell Keane without a replacement is palpably ridiculous.

I guess it would be interesting to know how much imput the owners had - even more so seeing as they are both over here at this moment in time as well . the first statement or press release from rafa will be interesting .

It`ll be a case of reading between the lines, especially considering contract talks.
If it was down to the owners (who at very least sanctioned it) its not like he can come out and say so because the press would go mad and city would bid for Torres.

[GYBS]

That is a great post Crazy - and another good point of view about the age and development of players .

Thank you. I appreciate that.

My point is that Keane is a very good player. And at his age he may well be at his peak... Going to LFC for a player like him can result in two things.. strie to get better and play the best football in your career - Macca at Real, Mcmahon at Liverpool, HYYPIA at Liverpool...

Or.. think that you are already a great player.. Schevchenko (spl) at Chelski, Morientes at Liverpool, KEANE at Liverpool!!!!

Keane loves our club, but THOUGHT he was already good enough.. That for me was why he was not.

it is a different point of view and there is some background for it and i cant really remember someone arriving at a big club late in their career or latish an going on to do very well with that new career . Maybe it would of been different if as you say keane was boght 4 years ago while he was still learning and developing his game .

[bigmick]

yeah Bob im a bit perplexed about the fact we are a bit short on options now but cant see what we can do about it bar hope torres doesnt get hurt and maybe one of the youngsters gets a go in the fa cup and steps up .

Well of course there's nothing we can do about it...we're all just bystanders to the train wreck.  That doesn't mean we can't feel mighty hacked off about how it all played out.  Sorry but I'm not yet to the point of shrugging my shoulders and saying 'oh well, I guess we'll just have to get on with it.'  Not by a long way. 

No probs with that Bob and can understand (when someone syas it more sensibly as opposed to coming on just slagging off the manager ) your thinking . i guess im just one of those people that will wait and see and reserve judgement .

With the greatest respect, there's no need to wait and see. We are taking a huge gamble for the remainder of the season, and what is there to wait and see about? As long as Torres stays fit, we'll probably perhaps maybe just get away with it. It won't make it right though.

It's akin to selling all our reserve goalies (might take a while I know but run with me on this) and saying lets just hope Reina stays fit, He probably will in truth as goalies normally do, but it wouldn't make the decision right.

The absolutely only debate that I can see, the only thing which is infact debateABLE is how much pressure if any the manager was put under to sell, how much of a financial consideration was it?

On the other stuff there's no need to "wait and see", to sell Keane without a replacement is palpably ridiculous.

So Keane was one of only two strikers at Liverpool FC?

Give over, you big pudding.

I think he was one of only two credible strikers at the club yes Lando. Just so we're clear, do you personally think it was a good idea to sell Keane without bothering to replace him?

[redrover]

very interesting article scott. hard to disagree with

[heimdall]

how long do you think it would take then ? with limited funds that we have ? give us a rough idea - also considering the fact that man utd will keep getting strnoger and buying big world class players when they want too ?

3 seasons, would need some money but not crazy money like Chelsea. If there was crazy money then first season like Chelsea.
But the point is I don't think we'd go backwards much even in season 1.

[GYBS]

but that is still three more seasons and that is with money as you say which we dont have . where as i think rafa will get us there in less that three seasons .

[NANNY RED]

Did we go backwards when Rafa became manager? answer the question please?? 

Now your just being a soft lad. Why do you think he has

Nanny, I'm just trying to get GYBS to admit that we wouldn't necessarily have to go on a massive 5 year rebuilding plan if we got a new manager.

Of course it would set us back. Different ideas, Different tactics, players in an out, different backroom staff, Handling these owners, i could go on. Anyway this is Robbie Keane isnt it. An im sure an all them yanks must of had a say in this somewhere, They had to sanction the deal they could of just said no not enough money. Thats what i cant understand in all of this, But it will all come out in the wash i suppose,

[bigmick]

very interesting article scott. hard to disagree with

He's a good writer is Henry Winter. His was one of the articles I always looked out for when I was in England. Very often journalists such as Winter and Oliver Kay know much more than they say. Players are more prepared to divulge snippets to journalists of the qualities, knowing that their information is going to be at worst hinted at, not sensationalised etc. You can take it as a given that the Gerrard, Torres and Carragher liking Keane, along with the rest of the players line is spot on.

Part of me would like to find out what really went on, and part of me hopes it never comes out. If Keane does a "my nightmare at Liverpool" spread, I've no doubt almost all the fans would turn against him, regardless of the justification. Rafa f course would never go into the press and discuss such a matter, no Liverpool manager would. Such things are never in the press from within the club, it's not the Liverpool way is it    .

[tubby]

Its a big if but if Rafa was able to go out and buy a quality player for several positions then im sure it would make his job easier but at the same would load more pressure on him. I dont want us to do a Chelsea and spend 250mil on 6 players but I would like us to fill maybe 2 more positions with players of Torres's and Gerrards calibre. A RB and RM. I really think had we managed to get someone like Alves and Simao when we had the chance that we could be a hell of a lot stronger than we are now. Anyway there is still hope yet.

[crazyhorse]

That is a great post Crazy - and another good point of view about the age and development of players .

Thank you. I appreciate that.

My point is that Keane is a very good player. And at his age he may well be at his peak... Going to LFC for a player like him can result in two things.. strie to get better and play the best football in your career - Macca at Real, Mcmahon at Liverpool, HYYPIA at Liverpool...

Or.. think that you are already a great player.. Schevchenko (spl) at Chelski, Morientes at Liverpool, KEANE at Liverpool!!!!

Keane loves our club, but THOUGHT he was already good enough.. That for me was why he was not.

it is a different point of view and there is some background for it and i cant really remember someone arriving at a big club late in their career or latish an going on to do very well with that new career . Maybe it would of been different if as you say keane was boght 4 years ago while he was still learning and developing his game .

I take your point GYBS and it makes a nice change to have a proper football discussion.

You can quote a few,, Zola for one who at the end of his career at Chelsea played the best football of his career. Yes he was a great player to begin with, but Chelsea and the environment they put him in made him better.

Marcus Babble was an example for us. For one season with us he was truly world class.. and I believe (i type from memory after a bottle of red) that he was well into his late twenties when he signed for us.

I do take your point though, Most World class players have already been recognised as "world class" before they hit 28 or so.. However this does pose the question as to why we signed Keane in the first place?