Liverpool FC Forum

[NANNY RED]

It's done now, nowt we can do about it, fingers crossed eh, off to read a book on Buddhism me...

Hum Hum hum

I think thats what they say

[crazyhorse]

When he arrived I thought that we could make him a better player and that he would be a great long term signing.. However when he became a little fish in a big pond and was no longer number one his shortcomings looked obvious...

Wait a sec....let me look at that post through my sphinctre and it might make some sense....ehhh.....no, sorry - it's still complete b0ll0x....

Bugger me... hang on.. finally we have found some football debate.... not!


Explain.

The point of my post was that our club has a history of taking players and making them better, people like Barnes, McMahon, Rush, Keegan, even Dalglish.

There are more. Torres is a better player now than when he was at his previous club. Reina is a better keeper, and to cite an older player look at what the club did for Sami Hyypia's game. He is still a PL class defender now in the twilight of his career. All becasue of the coaching, style, and above all tradition and history of LFC, the best club in the world.

I know Keane was older than those above when we signed him, but at the same time he should have been at his physical peak and able to get better. The fact was even though he is a LFC fan and worships the club he was neither good enough, or in the right frame of mind to follow in the footsteps of legends gone by.

Dont rubbish a post unless you have the substance to back it up.

[heimdall]

I just cant believe this is Benitez`s decision, its the owners getting some money back before they fk off imo..

Thats a scary point mate.

Why not sell Torres then, if they are trying to cashin, why don't you guys stop making bullsh1t excuses for the manager, drag your heads out of the sand and smell the coffee, the club is in complete fecking turmoil, we have senior mangement, owners and a football manager, please someone buy us and do a complete clearout of management and half the useless feckers who are in our squad and have the cheek to call themselves footballers!

Its the owners who receive any bids and ultimately its them who sanction any deals.
I dont think its that much of a stretch of imagination but like I say its only my opinion no need to get out your pram.

Not meaning to have a go at you but I'm just so fecking annoyed at some of the blind devotion on here when our club is going to sh1t before our eyes.

yet you want to take it back even further while we are in a position to challenge for the title plus the cl plus the fa cup ?

Did Chelsea go backwards when they were bought? No, so drop that line of arguing GYBS it doesn't work ok. Why would we go backwards with a new manager or are you saying we wetn backwards when Rafa took over? I just don't understand your reasoning, plus how would new owners with more money than our current owners be a bad thing. Please I'm trying to figure out how your mind works because I think if I can do that then maybe I can figure Rafa out as well.

When are we being bought then ? you are talking about changing our manager ? where is all this money coming from that a new manager can use ? look at chelsea change managers and go downhill rapidly .

Did we go backwards when Rafa became manager? answer the question please?? 

[GYBS]

That is a great post Crazy - and another good point of view about the age and development of players .

[GYBS]

I just cant believe this is Benitez`s decision, its the owners getting some money back before they fk off imo..

Thats a scary point mate.

Why not sell Torres then, if they are trying to cashin, why don't you guys stop making bullsh1t excuses for the manager, drag your heads out of the sand and smell the coffee, the club is in complete fecking turmoil, we have senior mangement, owners and a football manager, please someone buy us and do a complete clearout of management and half the useless feckers who are in our squad and have the cheek to call themselves footballers!

Its the owners who receive any bids and ultimately its them who sanction any deals.
I dont think its that much of a stretch of imagination but like I say its only my opinion no need to get out your pram.

Not meaning to have a go at you but I'm just so fecking annoyed at some of the blind devotion on here when our club is going to sh1t before our eyes.

yet you want to take it back even further while we are in a position to challenge for the title plus the cl plus the fa cup ?

Did Chelsea go backwards when they were bought? No, so drop that line of arguing GYBS it doesn't work ok. Why would we go backwards with a new manager or are you saying we wetn backwards when Rafa took over? I just don't understand your reasoning, plus how would new owners with more money than our current owners be a bad thing. Please I'm trying to figure out how your mind works because I think if I can do that then maybe I can figure Rafa out as well.

When are we being bought then ? you are talking about changing our manager ? where is all this money coming from that a new manager can use ? look at chelsea change managers and go downhill rapidly .

Did we go backwards when Rafabecame manager? answer the question please?? 

In the league yes we did .

[heimdall]

When are we being bought then ? you are talking about changing our manager ? where is all this money coming from that a new manager can use ? look at chelsea change managers and go downhill rapidly .

Did we go backwards when Rafabecame manager? answer the question please??  [/quote]
In the league yes we did .[/quote]

Did we go 5 years backwards?

So why do you know we would go 5 years backwards if we got a new manager then, when we didn't go 5 years backwards with Rafa?

[NANNY RED]

Did we go backwards when Rafa became manager? answer the question please?? 

Now your just being a soft lad. Why do you think he has

[Scottbot]

It's done now, nowt we can do about it, fingers crossed eh, off to read a book on Buddhism me...

Hum Hum hum

I think thats what they say

Nothing a bit of Trancsendental Meditation can't cure.....you coming round Gybs? i'll even crack open the josticks....

it's gotta be time for bed...sigh

[Sabre]

Crazyhorse, the bit you say about making better players in Liverpool is true and I could extend that list to the likes of Arbeloa, Riera and Alonso easily.

But even if Keane failed to achieve that. Why not getting rid in summer. Why now. How can a manager that has lined up Keane 16 times (and minutes in this team means you're important in this team independently you're subbed or not), and in one month, deem the player unuseful.

It makes no sense to me and I'm among the first ones to defend Rafa here. That's why I want to be completely sure who had which responsability in this madness.


GYBS mate, I appreciate your posting because I'd never blame anyone defending the managers and the players, even if they use arguments I disagree. But don't quote that long pyramids, try that you write more than you quote, as the thread is more readable than repeating all the time the same text. Thanks mate!

[GYBS]

because a new manager would come in and wont to work his own ideas just liek rafa has and wants too - he is 4 years into it and is getting close . Unless a new owner comes in and give rafa os someone unlimited funds then things need to be built step by step not the way chelsea did it when they went crazy with money . succes or winning the title doesnt just happen over night - it needs to be worked on .

[aCe']

That is a great post Crazy - and another good point of view about the age and development of players .

are you for real

[heimdall]

Did we go backwards when Rafa became manager? answer the question please?? 

Now your just being a soft lad. Why do you think he has

Nanny, I'm just trying to get GYBS to admit that we wouldn't necessarily have to go on a massive 5 year rebuilding plan if we got a new manager.

[GYBS]

And no worries sabre - keep forgetting that

[Scottbot]

Just imagine this: last minute of the last game of the season and Robbie Keane, a cockerel rather than a Liver bird on his shirt, goes running through one-on-one against Pepe Reina in front of a fraught Kop.


By Henry Winter

Rafael Benitez and Robbie Keane - Showing Robbie Keane the exit could prove costly
Unfitting end? Could Robbie Keane ruin Liverpool's title dreams? Photo: AFP

Keane could kill Anfield's dream of a first title in 19 years, gifting the championship to Manchester United, letting their hated rivals equal their record of 18 titles. Selling Keane back to Spurs would then be officially chronicled as one of the most expensive mistakes in footballing history. So why offload him? Rafael Benitez has some explaining to do.

The last-day doomsday scenario may be far-fetched, as United will surely have de-iced the open-top bus by then, but the 'Curious Case of Keane's Six Months on Merseyside' would take the combined forensic skills and analytical minds of Morse, Poirot and Holmes to unravel.

Liverpool surely do not need the money that urgently; for all the chaos surrounding their irritating American co-owners, a cheque for £15 million-plus (in reality a restructuring of Liverpool's original £20 million payment) cannot form a motive to sell. A title is worth that in prize-money and commercial trappings. So why gamble? Ambitious clubs do not dispense with good strikers mid-season. Very odd. But peer into Benitez's mind.

The decision to send Keane back south was driven through by Benitez, and it is hard to find logic in the Liverpool manager's actions. If Fernando Torres stretches for a ball in training at Melwood on Tuesday morning, and pulls one of those sensitive hamstrings, the songs of praise for the popular Keane will turn into a requiem on Liverpool's season.

After Torres struck twice against Chelsea on Sunday to revive Liverpool's Premier League aspirations, Keane was one of the first in the dressing room congratulating the victors. The Irishman was well liked by Torres, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, and their opinion set the tone. Keane will be missed by the players.

But not by Benitez. Keane arrived at Anfield eager to fulfil a childhood dream of pulling on the red of Liverpool and he was warmly received by the players. But Benitez does not do warm. If the Irishman had been signed by Benitez's predecessor, Gerard Houllier, he would have been given more time to prove himself but the Spaniard is a hard task-master.

Benitez enjoys a reputation of quickly dismissing those who fail to deliver yet it is here that confusion enters the debate. As he drove down the M6 yesterday, Keane could have been forgiven for wondering how Ryan Babel has been given time by Benitez while he has been sent south. Some sympathy must exist for the underperforming Keane, rarely given a run in his best position – through the middle.

Keane's treatment simply exposes the reality that Benitez is a cold manager, clearly an individual raised at icy Real Madrid rather than in Liverpool's more compassionate, family-driven atmosphere. Gerrard's famous lament about Benitez, that his career ambition remained a desire for a "well done off Rafa'', has never rung truer. Benitez's approach to man-management has always been a hand at the throat not an arm around the shoulder. Cold, cold, cold. Benitez is a one-man cold snap.

Now, as he previews Wednesday's FA Cup collision with Everton, Liverpool's manager will seek to justify his reasons for banishing Keane. Benitez will hint at dark, political club reasons, but Keane's exit is purely the Spaniard's doing. In dismissing Keane, he may live to rue not bringing in Emile Heskey.

Anyone looking at the winners and losers in the transfer window will surely conclude that Aston Villa have done the best deal. Only £3.5 million for Heskey! Martin O'Neill, an inspired man-manager, has struck again. Heskey will slot effortlessly into the dressing room. On the pitch, he will take some of the work-load off Gabriel Agbonlahor and Ashley Young. Those Liverpool players who craved the selfless Heskey returning to Anfield now sound frustrated people.

Other clubs have excelled during the window. Jimmy Bullard may discover that London is bigger than Hull but this looks a neat piece of business. The fee, £5 million, appears steep for a 30-year-old and the 4½-year contract particularly generous but Hull crave more energy through the middle, and a bit more ebullience in the dressing room. Bullard provides that.

At Everton, David Moyes does not care for players who let the team down on the field or the club down off it so Jo's loan stay at Everton will be intriguing. The Brazilian has been an embarrassment at Manchester City, whose manager Mark Hughes must be heaving a sigh of relief.

A general rule of the January transfer window is that it is a time when the unhappy, the unsettled and the unloved move. Craig Bellamy will bring some energy to City's front-line, a contrast to the lazy Jo.

Ditto El Hadji Diouf at Blackburn Rovers. Like Bellamy, Diouf is a pest on and off the pitch but the Senegalese striker will give Rovers a greater cutting edge. Of the other striking successes, Jay Simpson's loan move from Arsenal gives West Brom hope of staying up while the £3.5million James Beattie will bring goals to Stoke City.

[GYBS]

yes i am for real ace - if you want to have a pop at the argument then go explain to crazy as he is the one that brought up the point i just agreed with him .