Liverpool FC Forum

[AjaxMan]

guy on talksport from holland say babel is like a young henry

left wing, cutting in......fast, skillfull

heres hoping

who said that? i would like to know.

[LFC2007]

The problem is: there's no opportunity for developing winning teams, because every year the best players are signed by wealthy clubs. Ajax could have had a great team when they did keep all their stars last years:

Trabelsi (went to Man City)
Grygera (Juventus)
Van der Meyde (Internazionale)
Van der Vaart (Hamburger SV)
De Jong (Hamburger SV)
Chivu (AS Roma)
Ibrahimovic (Juventus)
Maxwell (Internazionale)
Pienaar (Borussia Dortmund)
Mido (AS Roma)
Babel (Liverpool)
De Mul (Sevilla)

Same story for PSV. Ooijer, Alex, Lee, Park, Bouma, Van Bommel, Vogel, Vennegoor of Hesselink, Robben, Kezman, Rommedahl all left the club.

Which is exactly my point, at this moment in time the Eredivisie is not considered one of the major european leagues where the top players go to play. It's either full of average players at the bottom, quality young players at the top who are ultimately sold or veteran players who are coming back to Holland to finish their careers e.g. Stam, Davids, Cocu.

I don't think it's feasible to have 6 or 7 top leagues in Europe, we live in a capitalistic society - there will only be 3 or a maximum of 4 top leagues that all the top players want to play in. The Eredivise doesn't have the depth to become a top league at this moment in time, it's comparable to the SPL in many ways. One week you can be going to Celtic Park to play in front of a 60,000 sell-out and the next week you're away to Inverness Callie Thistle in front of 5000!

[Ace Ventura]

I'd also suggest you take note of Koeman, one of the most defensive coaches in Europe.

The Dutch league is poor, yes. It has quality players, as does the Portuguese league and the Brazilian league - but they are also poor in comparison to the major european leagues.
Other than Ajax, PSV and AZ your league is poor in quality. Even those teams can barely compete at a european level.


The Premier League p!sses on the Eredvisie, it doesn't compare.

The problem is: there's no opportunity for developing winning teams, because every year the best players are signed by wealthy clubs. Ajax could have had a great team when they did keep all their stars last years:

Trabelsi (went to Man City)
Grygera (Juventus)
Van der Meyde (Internazionale)
Van der Vaart (Hamburger SV)
De Jong (Hamburger SV)
Chivu (AS Roma)
Ibrahimovic (Juventus)
Maxwell (Internazionale)
Pienaar (Borussia Dortmund)
Mido (AS Roma)
Babel (Liverpool)
De Mul (Sevilla)

Same story for PSV. Ooijer, Alex, Lee, Park, Bouma, Van Bommel, Vogel, Vennegoor of Hesselink, Robben, Kezman, Rommedahl all left the club.

Hmm Babel is being slagged by Ajax and supporters of other dutch clubs yet you still pick him in the team of top players that have left to join clubs in the top European leagues.

Cant be THAT sh!te then 

[AjaxMan]

Which is exactly my point, at this moment in time the Eredivisie is not considered one of the major european leagues where the top players go to play. It's either full of average players at the bottom, quality young players at the top who are ultimately sold or veteran players who are coming back to Holland to finish their careers e.g. Stam, Davids, Cocu.

I don't think it's feasible to have 6 or 7 top leagues in Europe, we live in a capitalistic society - there will only be 3 or a maximum of 4 top leagues that all the top players want to play in. The Eredivise doesn't have the depth to become a top league at this moment in time, it's comparable to the SPL in many ways. One week you can be going to Celtic Park to play in front of a 60,000 sell-out and the next week you're away to Inverness Callie Thistle in front of 5000!

The bottom's not full of average players. Actually, most of the players from the U21-squads (champions 2006, 2007) are from lower teams like Heerenveen, Twente, Groningen, Vitesse or Utrecht. This means the lower teams have quality players also. Otherwise you can't become champions of Europe under 21.

I think you underestimate the level of the Dutch league. You only look to the achievements in CL and UEFA Cup. But it's not fair to compare when you like at the budgets. Dutch teams do not get the same chances to build world class teams as English teams. But that does not mean they lack quality.

[AjaxMan]

Hmm Babel is being slagged by Ajax and supporters of other dutch clubs yet you still pick him in the team of top players that have left to join clubs in the top European leagues.

Cant be THAT sh!te then 

Yes, because Babel can becóme a world class attacker. But at the moment he's not. When he stayed at Ajax he could have developed so he would really be ready to succeed at, for example, Liverpool. But now I don't think Liverpool becomes much stronger with the recent Babel...

[LFC2007]

The bottom's not full of average players. Actually, most of the players from the U21-squads (champions 2006, 2007) are from lower teams like Heerenveen, Twente, Groningen, Vitesse or Utrecht. This means the lower teams have quality players also. Otherwise you can't become champions of Europe under 21.

I think you underestimate the level of the Dutch league. You only look to the achievements in CL and UEFA Cup. But it's not fair to compare when you like at the budgets. Dutch teams do not get the same chances to build world class teams as English teams. But that does not mean they lack quality.

I don't underestimate the quality of the eredivisie, but it is CLEARLY nowhere near on the same level as The Premier League, La Liga or Serie A. It's not an attractive league anymore.

It's obvious when you watch a game, the quality and organisation is not the same as the top leagues. It's just about on a par with Ligue 1 - even still I'd say it has greater depth and a greater capacity to be a top league than the Eredivisie.

You have quality players there, but not with the same level of development and not in the same quantity as in England. Your stadia are very small at the lower clubs aswell.

The bottom clubs are generally full of average players, there is a big gulf in class between the squad of Wigan Atheltic for example and Excelsior Rotterdam. Partly down to money of course.

And the U21 tournament, well, the Netherlands have always produced quality youngsters but we were extremely close to reaching the final in your own back yard!

[kingofthekop2002]

its a bit like someone bidding £15mil for guthrie or Hammill. They maybe good, young, promising players but not quite worth that amount.

No.

No its not.

Its like someone shelling out £10.75m for a young Basque player who's been showing real potential, called Xabi Alonso.

Babel's got 15 caps for his country and recently looked excellent for the u'21's. Give the lad a chance.

[Sabre]

While I agree that the Dutch league is not at the level of the Spanish or English one, I'd be shamed if I didn't admit the admiration I have to that country's football.

The Portuguese, the Polish, the Bulgarians have periods of 5-10 years of glory and then they come back to mediocre times. The Dutch though, are a bloody factory of good footballers since I can remember, and beyond. I think they haven't stopped making good players, and that coming from a 16 Million people country means that they do their football stuff right.

Except for strange people like Kronkamp, the rule for Dutch players is that they're good professionals

Teams like Ajax have been pioneers on modern football academies methodology. They buy cheap, what the english and Spanish buy expensive (they for instace brought Romario first), and their football players are versatile and adaptable, both for england and for Spain. I had to be fair to the Dutch football, I'll always take them more seriously than to other leagues and football.

[GOAT]

Hmm Babel...we'll see about him.

Babel and Benayoun...

Chelsea buy the likes of malouda and possibly daniel alves while we buy them two..

Well we'll see

[The Manhattan Project]

Hmm Babel...we'll see about him.

Babel and Benayoun...

Chelsea buy the likes of malouda and possibly daniel alves while we buy them two..

Well we'll see

In fairness, we did talk to Malouda, but there's nothing we can do if he has such bizarre reasons for choosing Chelsea over us. He basically said "they didn't show me enough love" and to be honest, we don't need someone like that with that attitude at this club.

[LFC2007]

While I agree that the Dutch league is not at the level of the Spanish or English one, I'd be shamed if I didn't admit the admiration I have to that country's football.

The Portuguese, the Polish, the Bulgarians have periods of 5-10 years of glory and then they come back to mediocre times. The Dutch though, are a bloody factory of good footballers since I can remember, and beyond. I think they haven't stopped making good players, and that coming from a 16 Million people country means that they do their football stuff right.

Except for strange people like Kronkamp, the rule for Dutch players is that they're good professionals

Teams like Ajax have been pioneers on modern football academies methodology. They buy cheap, what the english and Spanish buy expensive (they for instace brought Romario first), and their football players are versatile and adaptable, both for england and for Spain. I had to be fair to the Dutch football, I'll always take them more seriously than to other leagues and football.

The quality of their league and the talent they produce are two separate issues. You can produce quality young talent and have effective youth systems whilst also having a poor standard in the league.

[puroresu]

good point.  i use the same argument when people diss the french league.  every year there clubs are raided 4 talent.

English clubs struggle to produce good players.  Its quite disgraceful that the amount of money spent on academies ha produced so little.

Did u think the Atlantic league was a good idea? The best clubs from  Holland, Scoland, Portugal, Turkey, Belgium etc in one league.

You would make that point, I've never seen you compliment anything British.

only a fool would say academies in England have produced the quality which many thought they would.  El Tel and Brooking have admitted that basically the have failed.

The Dutch League isnt the strongest but without TV money its so difficult to compete with England, Spain and Italy.  However the standard is still good.  Its not like clubs from the 3 big leagues look at the dutch league as some low standard and question whether its players can play in there own leagues.  If anything they look at it as a great place to get quality for cheap.

[Redman in wales]

its a bit like someone bidding £15mil for guthrie or Hammill. They maybe good, young, promising players but not quite worth that amount.

No.

No its not.

Its like someone shelling out £10.75m for a young Basque player who's been showing real potential, called Xabi Alonso.

Babel's got 15 caps for his country and recently looked excellent for the u'21's. Give the lad a chance.

no its not like that either.

This is more money for a player who, at the time of buying him, is not of the same quality as alonso. Alonso was 23 when we bought him and was a first team regular from the word go, which i doubt babel will be.

in reality, its somewhere between the two

please dont get me wrong, i am behind the lad 100%. the only point i was making is that i... like many.. think we have paid over the odds for him

[paisleyred]

We are paying the going rate.
Man U paid more for Anderson and Nani who are also good prospects.
Chelsea paid a similar amount last season for Obi Mikel.
Christ even Arsenal pay big bucks for young prospects.
As soon as clubs from abroad see an English team interested in a prospect the price doubles or even trebles.
Thats life.

[LFC2007]

only a fool would say academies in England have produced the quality which many thought they would.  El Tel and Brooking have admitted that basically the have failed.

The Dutch League isnt the strongest but without TV money its so difficult to compete with England, Spain and Italy.  However the standard is still good.  Its not like clubs from the 3 big leagues look at the dutch league as some low standard and question whether its players can play in there own leagues.  If anything they look at it as a great place to get quality for cheap.

Only a fool would think I am endorsing British football academies, had you actually read my views on academies you may realise that I am one of the biggest critics of it. Yet, that is not even the point in debate.

Your posts have an anti-British tone to them, borne out of our foreign policy in the middle-east.


Once again, you miss the point entirely about talent and the strength of the league. We don't produce talent in the same vein as Holland and yet our league is significantly ahead in its overall quality and organisation.

It's not solely down to TV money, it's a combination of factors including population, attendances, lifestyle and history.