Liverpool FC Forum

[muzodziwa]

world class
Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Reina, Carragher

[muzodziwa]

and Alonso

[aCe']

World Class:

Gerrard and Torres

Top Class:

Alonso, Mascherano, Reina, Carragher

Good Players:

Keane, Riera

Decent Squad Players:

Aurelio, Arbeloa, Hyypia, Skrtel, Pennant

Need to be sold:

KUYTTT, Lucas, Babel, Dossena, Ngog, Voronin, Degen, Plessis

Wouldnt matter if theyr here or not:

Benayoun, Agger, insua(yet), Elzhar, everybody else i forgot

[Owzat]

I'll have to come back and explain my choices, if at all, I really need to leave earlier than I have been! (EDIT : that's not gonna happen at this rate)

World Class (2) : Torres, Gerrard
Top Class (4) : Reina, Carragher, Skrtel, Alonso
Good/Very Good Players (7) : Kuyt, Agger, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Riera, Hyypia, Aurelio
Decent/Rotation/Squad (8) : Keane*, Lucas, Benayoun, El Zhar, Insua, Cavalieri, Babel, Voronin

Not Good Enough (6) : N'Gog, Plessis, Dossena, Degen, Pennant, Leto

*can only judge him on what he's done for Liverpool, I wonder how many have been generous based on his overall career

It's hard to place some in such rigid (relatively) brackets since some will fall betwixt. Like I'm not going to list Insua as a good player based on a handful of games. Some will suffer rating drops due to recent form. Think I've got all the main squad members - plus Leto who some may have forgotten.

Gotta go so do bear that in mind, I may change my mind and also may justify the placements with a little comment or two later

EDIT : apologies for overlooking Alonso (originally), I was in a rush. I thought I had more or less typed enough to pre-empt most of what DannAn "picked up on"

[DanAn]

I'll have to come back and explain my choices, if at all, I really need to leave earlier than I have been! (EDIT : that's not gonna happen at this rate)

World Class (2) : Torres, Gerrard
Top Class (3) : Reina, Carragher, Skrtel
Good/Very Good Players (7) : Kuyt, Agger, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Riera, Hyypia, Aurelio
Decent/Rotation/Squad (8) : Keane*, Lucas, Benayoun, El Zhar, Insua, Cavalieri, Babel, Voronin

Not Good Enough (6) : N'Gog, Plessis, Dossena, Degen, Pennant, Leto

*can only judge him on what he's done for Liverpool, I wonder how many have been generous based on his overall career

It's hard to place some in such rigid (relatively) brackets since some will fall betwixt. Like I'm not going to list Insua as a good player based on a handful of games. Some will suffer rating drops due to recent form. Think I've got all the main squad members - plus Leto who some may have forgotten.

Gotta go so do bear that in mind, I may change my mind and also may justify the placements with a little comment or two later

Be interested to here your reasoning because I disagree with a lot of it.

1. What does Reina have to do to be considered world class? He's arguably the best Keeper in the best/richest league.

2. You left out Alonso but remembered Leto....How?

3. Even at Liverpool Keane has still been a good player. He's been better for us than Aurelio has. He just has different expectations

4. Ranking Leto as not good enough before he walks in the door???

5. Is Pennant rated on performance on the pitch or in the papers?

[mart]

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Gerrard
Torres -
Alonso -

Top class (Would get in most teams squads)

Reina - Possibly even world class but imo that term tends to be used to easily.
Mascherano - Great at what he does but too limited to be considered world class.
Carragher/Skrtel/Agger/Hyypia

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Kuyt
Aurelio 
Riera
Keane - Based on his performances for liverpool so far he might get pushed down to decent squad player. But i still think he can do better.

Decent squad player


Benayoun - Very useful player to have but not really good enough for the first team.
Arbeloa


Jury still out

Lucas
Insua
Degen
Cavalieri
Ngog
Babel - I had faith in him, but he must start to show something in the chances he gets or he should be sold.

Would prefer to see sold

Dossena
Pennant
Voronin

[Owzat]

Be interested to here your reasoning because I disagree with a lot of it.

I was rushed for time, should have spelt that out in CAPS, bold and colour for those who like to rush in and judge others. Maybe if you'd read some of my text at the bottom you wouldn't have asked half these questions

1. What does Reina have to do to be considered world class? He's arguably the best Keeper in the best/richest league.

I rate Reina, but as I stated it can be hard to place players in a single bracket. I rate Reina just below Gerrard and Torres, however I stop just shy of calling him World Class

2. You left out Alonso but remembered Leto....How?

I was rushed for time - and didn't you know he'd been sold I nearly missed Hyypia, not having time leaves you shy of time to check things thoroughly. I put numbers in to try and help me cover everyone.

3. Even at Liverpool Keane has still been a good player. He's been better for us than Aurelio has. He just has different expectations

Strikers are signed to score goals, I did even state that Keane was based purely on what he's done so far.

4. Ranking Leto as not good enough before he walks in the door???

Haven't you seen him play for us in pre-season friendlies? If not I suggest you refrain from making comments without possesion of all the facts.

5. Is Pennant rated on performance on the pitch or in the papers?

I wouldn't rate anyone based on papers. A) because I don't buy papers. B) because then I'd be rating Gerrard on an entirely different scale and C) because I formulate my own opinions, maybe you simply regurgitate what you read somewhere but I don't[/color]

[Leonmc0708]

We seem at the moment to have a few disagreements going in various threads about just how good some of our players are, and whether player "a" contributes more than player "b" etc etc and even whether player "c" should even be at our club at all.

I thought we could try and explain our reasons why we think the way we do about the different players, and which category we see them as fitting best into.

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres.

Top class (Would get in most teams squads )

Carragher, Alonso, Hyypia (was but maybe not now)

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Skrtel, Agger, Riera, Arbeloa(?) Keane(?) Aurelio(?)

Decent squad player 

Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Cavelieri

Would prefer to see sold

Voronin, Pennant, Benayoun, Degan, Dossena, Ngog


No doubt I have missed someone out and offended people by not putting their favourite players in the "right" category. This is my view of the players and even then I have questions about quite a few.

To explain a couple of my more controversial decisions.

I put Masch as world class and Alonso as "only" top class because I think there are quite a few better players than Alonso in his role, and I don't believe there is a better player than Masch at what he does. Like it or lump it thats my view.

Arbeloa , Keane and Aurelio, I was torn between them being squad players and good players but decided to be happy clappy for once and put them in possibly a higher category than maybe they deserve.

Benayoun, is no doubt good enough to be a decent squad player alongside Kuyt etc etc, I think he tends to narrow the pitch too much when he plays and I think we could get better for similar money to what we would get for him.

You are Stu the Red and I claim my five pounds.

[account deleted by request]

We seem at the moment to have a few disagreements going in various threads about just how good some of our players are, and whether player "a" contributes more than player "b" etc etc and even whether player "c" should even be at our club at all.

I thought we could try and explain our reasons why we think the way we do about the different players, and which category we see them as fitting best into.

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres.

Top class (Would get in most teams squads )

Carragher, Alonso, Hyypia (was but maybe not now)

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Skrtel, Agger, Riera, Arbeloa(?) Keane(?) Aurelio(?)

Decent squad player 

Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Cavelieri

Would prefer to see sold

Voronin, Pennant, Benayoun, Degan, Dossena, Ngog


No doubt I have missed someone out and offended people by not putting their favourite players in the "right" category. This is my view of the players and even then I have questions about quite a few.

To explain a couple of my more controversial decisions.

I put Masch as world class and Alonso as "only" top class because I think there are quite a few better players than Alonso in his role, and I don't believe there is a better player than Masch at what he does. Like it or lump it thats my view.

Arbeloa , Keane and Aurelio, I was torn between them being squad players and good players but decided to be happy clappy for once and put them in possibly a higher category than maybe they deserve.

Benayoun, is no doubt good enough to be a decent squad player alongside Kuyt etc etc, I think he tends to narrow the pitch too much when he plays and I think we could get better for similar money to what we would get for him.

You are Stu the Red and I claim my five pounds.

Get a clue

Stu would NEVER say Masch is World class, possibly not even Reina(?)

[Owzat]

Be interested to here your reasoning because I disagree with a lot of it.

By the way, five points of "criticism" out of 26 players is hardly "a lot of it". Minus one for me knowing Leto had played for Liverpool and you not!

[Fo Dne]

[GYBS]

edit

[Leonmc0708]

We seem at the moment to have a few disagreements going in various threads about just how good some of our players are, and whether player "a" contributes more than player "b" etc etc and even whether player "c" should even be at our club at all.

I thought we could try and explain our reasons why we think the way we do about the different players, and which category we see them as fitting best into.

World class (Would get on most teams in the world)

Reina, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres.

Top class (Would get in most teams squads )

Carragher, Alonso, Hyypia (was but maybe not now)

Good player (good enough for a title winning team)

Skrtel, Agger, Riera, Arbeloa(?) Keane(?) Aurelio(?)

Decent squad player 

Kuyt, Lucas, Insua, Cavelieri

Would prefer to see sold

Voronin, Pennant, Benayoun, Degan, Dossena, Ngog


No doubt I have missed someone out and offended people by not putting their favourite players in the "right" category. This is my view of the players and even then I have questions about quite a few.

To explain a couple of my more controversial decisions.

I put Masch as world class and Alonso as "only" top class because I think there are quite a few better players than Alonso in his role, and I don't believe there is a better player than Masch at what he does. Like it or lump it thats my view.

Arbeloa , Keane and Aurelio, I was torn between them being squad players and good players but decided to be happy clappy for once and put them in possibly a higher category than maybe they deserve.

Benayoun, is no doubt good enough to be a decent squad player alongside Kuyt etc etc, I think he tends to narrow the pitch too much when he plays and I think we could get better for similar money to what we would get for him.

You are Stu the Red and I claim my five pounds.

Get a clue

Stu would NEVER say Masch is World class, possibly not even Reina(?)

Just because I feel like I'm going to break them up even further into more groups.

The Elite: (Top five players in the world)

Steven Gerrard: Absoloutely unbelievable player. Wouldn't swap him for anyone and don't believe any other player is capable of his performances being played completely out of position. Absoloute monster of a player and we'll be lucky to see another one who is nearly as good in all our years as Liverpool fans.

Fernando Torres: Quite simply unplayable at his best. Fast, strong, skillfull, lethal finisher, great in the air, unbelievable movement, wonderfull touch, can shoot from distance. Not as important as Gerrard, but easily in the top five players in the world for me.

World class players: (in and around the top 6-20 players in the world)

None

Top class players: (Players who'd get into pretty much every side).

None (Would have had Sami Hyypia in here a few years ago)

Excellent players: (good enough to win a league with, have some excellent attributes but theres alot around that are as good)

Alonso: Again, excellent use of the ball, reads the game well, keeps possession well and links up well with other good players.

Reira: Excellent use of the ball, intelligent and links up well with others, provides superb balance.

Keane: Has yet to produce in a red shirt but through no real fault of his own. Has superb vision, his movement is world class and his link up play is exceptional. Technically he's good aswell. Just needs to settle and get to the level of confidence needed to play consistently well for this club, in terms of ability there are no worries.

Good players: (Usually consistent or decent and played in the right system, next to the right players, can have a positive effect)

Hyypia: Still think he's our best centre half for me. Not as good as he used to be but still shows signs of class. Good on the ball, uses it well and still dominant in the air. Reads the game superbly. Obviously lacks alot of mobility these days.

Carragher: Could probably push him up a level due to what he gives Liverpool and the fact he's a leader but I don't believe in overating your own. Solid defensively, has his faults but doesn't everyone.

Skyrtel: Solid without being spectacular.

Agger: Again solid without being spectacular. Excellent and carrying the ball out from the back. Would be nice is his passing ability was upto the same standard.

Mascherano: Good in the tackle but a poor passer. Excellent at reading the game aswell and where to press the ball.

Decent squad player: (not really first teamers but you can get away with the odd one)

Insua, Aurelio, Bennayoun, Pennant, Arbeloa

Absoloute rubbish that needs to go:

Kuyt, Voronin, Ngog, Babel, Lucas, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri

--------------------------------------------------------------

We've got a decent squad, we just need a couple of additions but they have to all be improvements on what we have. For me this team has potentially a great mix of the right players if we can find the type of players and obviously they have to be of the required standard to suppliment the ones we already have.

The player rater has spoken so I am going to lock this thread in a minutes as this is the FINAL word on the matter.

[Fo Dne]

The sarcastic stalker returns! No wonder this place has gone to pot when you have moderators like this.

[dawson99]

Absolute rubbish that needs to go Kuyt & Lucas? They both have things to offer the club if you ask me.