Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

would torres be a world class buy?

Have to be honest what Ive heard about Torres lately most of us may be dissapointed if he does come for 20 odd million and doesnt deliver.
He was excellent in the WC that we know of, I am split on this I am not 100% sure I want him to come but on the other hand should he join the mancs and become a success we would all be sliting our wrists.
And be saying why didnt we buy him when we had the chance its a gamble but then again so is every player we buy whether he turns out to be world class in the future is another story.

[flamingpoe]

fair enuf stu but its not wat other peoples opinions are its yours, thats what makes us human and comparatavely fans, so if u wanna make your opinions, on other peoples views then that is up 2 u, also united have bid for torres, same money just a little top up on his liverpool wages, united have stated tho, that if liverpool renew their wages, then united cannot contend with it, with there current financial predicement i think united made torres wages 3500 more than what we offered him, so i highly expect we will do theres by 1500, then ferguson might just back off!!!,.......i hate ferguson hes a git

[ivor_the_injun]

And I think you're absoloutely nuts.

He has a glaring lack of ability to judge how good certain players are and its that reason we're where we are in the league.

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

Its not even about how much money has been spent. The only real class he's brought in is Reina, Alonso and Fowler. Fowler's now left. He's signed to many decent players, he needs to go out an sign class players.

Let's not turn this into a thread about Ashton FFS, as we know that's what you're thinking, and surely by now you must know it's been done to death. What I will say is that Crouch, while by no means a complete player, and certainly not without flaws, has proved an excellent signing from my point of view, and definitely a player worthy of the shirt.

Agger too, as far as I'm concerned. He's not the finished article, but he's growing into the team, and I think there's a long-term centre-half partnership blossoming between him and Carra. He's not the best in the Prem, he's not the next Alan Hansen, but he's young and he's capable. Sami's not the force he once was, and I think Agger's done enough to earn more time in the team. I certainly don't think any ridiculous money needs throwing at a centre back, put it that way.

Sissoko I'll take issue with purely because he's not a nailed-on first 11 player now, far from it. Like Crouch he's not a complete solution for the position, but he's an option and at times a very, very good one. At times an average one. A £5m squad player - nothing wrong with that.

Kuyt I kind of agree with you. I worried that his goalscoring wouldn't translate to the Prem, and so far it hasn't. Certainly not one to ship out, and I wonder what we'll be saying about the guy this time next year. Interesting season ahead for him, hopefully.

For me this summer is about two things - it's about filling spots in the squad where the backup isn't good enough, and it's about raising the level of the first 11 with seriously top level players. At times the squad players he's brought in (ie: Zenden, Pellegrino)  have been nowhere near the level required, but at the same time they were cheap options, and apparently cheap was all that the board could afford.

I do think, on balance, he's done alright in the transfer market. I certainly don't think he's fared any worse than the other top 4 managers in recent seasons, particularly given that he's had a lot less cash to work with.

[flamingpoe]

[/quote]One of the best in the world that can't pass a ball?[quote] unfortunately, tho stu even if he is a cdm that cant pass the ball, juventus and a c milan (hint the team that beat us in the final......i know it hurts, but its true) still want him

[ivor_the_injun]

Cue this thread going WAAAAY off topic...

[grayghost]

Cue this thread going WAAAAY off topic...

Does any one of you guys like Marmite on your buties 

[Stu.Murph]

And I think you're absoloutely nuts.

He has a glaring lack of ability to judge how good certain players are and its that reason we're where we are in the league.

The signings of Sissoko, Agger, Kuyt and Crouch are the ones that wind me up the most. None of them are excellent players, yet all of them are in our first 11.

Its not even about how much money has been spent. The only real class he's brought in is Reina, Alonso and Fowler. Fowler's now left. He's signed to many decent players, he needs to go out an sign class players.

Let's not turn this into a thread about Ashton FFS, as we know that's what you're thinking, and surely by now you must know it's been done to death. What I will say is that Crouch, while by no means a complete player, and certainly not without flaws, has proved an excellent signing from my point of view, and definitely a player worthy of the shirt.

Agger too, as far as I'm concerned. He's not the finished article, but he's growing into the team, and I think there's a long-term centre-half partnership blossoming between him and Carra. He's not the best in the Prem, he's not the next Alan Hansen, but he's young and he's capable. Sami's not the force he once was, and I think Agger's done enough to earn more time in the team. I certainly don't think any ridiculous money needs throwing at a centre back, put it that way.

Sissoko I'll take issue with purely because he's not a nailed-on first 11 player now, far from it. Like Crouch he's not a complete solution for the position, but he's an option and at times a very, very good one. At times an average one. A £5m squad player - nothing wrong with that.

Kuyt I kind of agree with you. I worried that his goalscoring wouldn't translate to the Prem, and so far it hasn't. Certainly not one to ship out, and I wonder what we'll be saying about the guy this time next year. Interesting season ahead for him, hopefully.

For me this summer is about two things - it's about filling spots in the squad where the backup isn't good enough, and it's about raising the level of the first 11 with seriously top level players. At times the squad players he's brought in (ie: Zenden, Pellegrino)  have been nowhere near the level required, but at the same time they were cheap options, and apparently cheap was all that the board could afford.

I do think, on balance, he's done alright in the transfer market. I certainly don't think he's fared any worse than the other top 4 managers in recent seasons, particularly given that he's had a lot less cash to work with.

I really can't be arsed going into detail today as I'm not in the mood. Look at the transfers in Houllier's first three years to Benitez. Look at the money spent to the quality of players brought in. Think about the improvements made...

From McAteer and Heggem, to Babbel.
From Babb... to Hyypia.
From Harkness and Bjornebye, to Riise.
From a past it Barnes and puffy Redknapp to Gerrard and Hamann.

I also put to you Houllier spent £125,000,000 as some people love to remind others. Well divide that by the number of years he was here. Five and a half, you then get less than £25,000,000 a season. FACT! So don't give me the Rafa has less money .

Rafa's hardly improved any area of the team (individually) with the exception of the goalkeeper. Says it all. As a TEAM we've improved, but theres only so far you can go with average individuals. You need great players to have a great team, its as simple as that. We have one.

You're obviously happy for him to waste money on average players. I'm not. I want to see better. I've seen money wasted before and I'm sick of it. I want the best out there for the money we have. Ashton instead of Crouch, Anelka instead of Bellamy and Kuyt. Woodgate instead of Agger. I want class, not average options.

Like I've said, would you rather have Owen at his 2001/2002 form or the option of Bellamy or Crouch?

Absoloutely no contest what so ever.

End of.

[Stu.Murph]

The other point Ivor...

To strengthen the "back up" you don't go and sign back up do you.

You sign first teamers and keep the current first teamers as back up.

If I was to have Agger, Carragher, Hyypia and Palletta and was to sign Woodgate, it would be Palletta going out the door to make way. Not Agger and Palletta.

Same for example with Kewell and Gonzalez. I wouldn't Keep Gonzalez as backup if we signed Robben (for example) or I wouldn't go and look for antoher player to replace him. Kewell would then take Gonzalez place.

Its about improving the first 11. As always. With class players who will take us to the next level. Simple as.

[Reg]

Stu´s clearly had his sausgae roll today, he´s not just up and running, he positively flying.....

[maguskwt]

reina - very good buy
alonso - very good buy
mascherano - very good buy?

agger - good to very good buy (still young still have room for improvement)

kuyt - good buy

arbeloa - decent buy
crouch - decent buy
garcia - decent buy (only because he somehow scores crucial goals otherwise average buy)

paletta - average buy (jurty is still out)
pennant - average buy
bellamy - average buy

gonzalez - bad buy
morientes - bad buy
kronkamp - bad buy
josemi - bad buy
nunez - bad negotiation (deal with owen)

so to me rafa's ability in buying suitable players for liverpool is still average...like 50/50... he's still not as good as wenger IMO... I compare him to wenger because arsenal's budget is about the same as us... mourinho and ferguson does better than rafa but this is because they had more money...

[Elchris]

I think he did 'ok' with the transfers not great but enough with the funds that he's been provided , we have to keep in mind most of these players aren't his first options  but i do not prefer he's likings to the players from spain . They seem to have a very hard time fitting into the english league.

Btw if took his buys and then sell them , i think we could make a very healthy profit

[maguskwt]

Woodgate instead of Agger.

   

Agger can become so much better than woodgate...

agger = 22
woodgate = 27

[ivor_the_injun]

I really can't be arsed going into detail today as I'm not in the mood. Look at the transfers in Houllier's first three years to Benitez. Look at the money spent to the quality of players brought in. Think about the improvements made...

I meant less cash to work with than the opposition, obviously.

Comparing his spending to Houllier's reign is absolutely pointless. Look at how Chelsea and Man U have moved the spending goalposts FFS. £31m for a central defender in Ferdinand... £24m for Drogba... apparently disposable players like Shevchenko and Veron. We think it's a victory when we make 10p on a player like Baros, but these f*ckers p*ss away losses of £10m on a player and shrug their shoulders.

I've made the point before about Arsenal - people bang on about Wenger being a genius with nurturing younger players, while overlooking the fact that he's bringing them to the club for £5m, £7m, £10m...Theo Walcott cost Arsenal £2m less than the most we've ever paid for a player.

The point about moving the team on is fair enough, but it's not like there have been many reasonably priced peak-era Owen-alikes on the market.

Ditto Babbel - a great player, but Rafa rates Finnan and so do I.

Likewise Hyypia - he's not in his mid-to-late 20s anymore, and you have to move on. I'd personally say that Agger was about as good as we could have got for the money paid last year, but that's just my opinion.

As for Hamann - how do you top the best player in world football in that position? Answer - you can't. We've got Alonso and Mascherano now though, not like-for-like by any means, but I'll console myself with them to be honest with you.

The team hasn't kicked on, I agree. But we simply haven't been able to compete in terms of transfer fees and wages in recent years, and a gulf has opened. That's why we have new owners, and that's why Rafa needs to earn his corn this summer.

[Red Macgregor]

Just a thought, but I actually think that Rafa is uncomfortable with big stars in his dressing room.
Hence his ambivalence to Owen and his need to tame 'StevieG'
My guess is that he only want's palyers who see it his way, I think he would struggle with a Henry or Anelka.
Obviously he believes that Torres is malleable enough and Tevez is too much of a threat to his position.

[Stu.Murph]

Woodgate instead of Agger.

   

Agger can become so much better than woodgate...

agger = 22
woodgate = 27

Ok. Well I can be better than Vieira then.

Stu 23.
Vieira 32.



Mong.