Liverpool FC Forum

[puroresu]

but like i just said RT, rafa does himself no favours, last season we got the CL final so logic would dictate that we have a strong team, i mean a poor team would never achieve that.

so please explain to me why if we have a team strong enough to get to the CL final, did we perform so poorly in the league?

and i dont want to hear world cup, injuries, players bedding etc as that is exactly the same for the CL and in fact the same for man utd and chelsea.

can the finger be pointed at rafa for continuing with a tactic that hadnt worked for his previous two seasons?

A KO Cup tournament isnt the league though is it.  2 different animals.

AC Milan managed to win the CL yet were disappointing in the league and were miles behind Inter.  Reaching a Cup Final does not equate to winning a league.

[redtrader74]

Personally i think it was the poor start that killed off the league bid. I have looked at the teams that had played in those games and  honestly thought that they were good enough to win those games. PLayers bedding in, whether you like it or not must have played a part seeing as we added the most out of the top four.
Imho not having a top striker, with pace and strength has really cost us, we make chances, but don't have that something special to put them away. Now we can blame Rafa for this or a lack of money, or the terminally slow parry, we don't know.
Everyone has lauded the 2nd season run from Oct-May, yet all of Rafas so called poor tactics were employed then, so they do work.

The CL is a different competition, you need to finish in the top 2 of the group to go through, not win it. You need to get past the teams in the knockout stage not beat them. We did what was needed to proceed against Barca and Chelsea, we didn't actually beat them.
In the league we have not had the qaulity up front to win enough games.

[112-1077774096]

arghhhhhhhhh. yes they are different competitions but to get to the champions league final, beating barca and chelsea along the way shows that we can play football, so why did we lose so many league games?

are you suggesting that its different football in the two competitions, do the players get super powers for the CL?

well they dont, really there is no difference, if rafa can outsmart frank riikard but not outsmart moyes or warnock, then again that shows rafa is a bad manager on your terms, its suggests that he is only good in europe so to tout him as the best manager in the world is wrong, surely the best manager in the world would know how to play in every competition


just playing devils advocate here guys, football is football, if we are good enough to beat barca when we play our full team, surely that shows the poor results in the league were down to poor team selection (not talking about the chelsea away or man utd home games, we played a strong team and still lost, thats was down to two sucker punches and our strikers not being able to hit a cows  @rse with a banjo)

[NiftyNeil]

The difference between our league form and our champions league form is momentum.
We had a great start in the champions league and built on it. The players grow in confidence and believe they can win the tournament. That momentum gathered more pace after beating Barca. With believe comes greater desire and will to win.
After a poor start in the league, we never had a realistic chance after november. The gap was psychologically too big. With this, work ethic drops and, unconsciously, all the eggs go into one basket.

I still think we were good enough to win the league this season, but we had too bad a start. Rafa must learn from this next year. We need to build a momentum first and then, and only then, can he start to rotate the team.

[Bad Bob]

just playing devils advocate here guys, football is football, if we are good enough to beat barca when we play our full team, surely that shows the poor results in the league were down to poor team selection (not talking about the chelsea away or man utd home games, we played a strong team and still lost, thats was down to two sucker punches and our strikers not being able to hit a cows  @rse with a banjo)

Just playing devil's advocate myself here Peewee...perhaps it was down to the players on the pitch.  Theoretically, our second choice players in many--not all--positions are better than the first-teamers at many clubs in the league and yet they didn't get the job done.  Does this make it entirely Rafa's fault for playing them or should we expect a little more from the squad as a whole?  Before you answer, remember that Rafa is the same manager that helped Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan earn Champions League medals so it's hard to argue that he can't motivate mediocre players to give their best.

[ivor_the_injun]

Keep all "Rafa should do this or that" and "This is where Rafa went wrong" chat to another thread - the more people add to this thread, the longer it stays alive, and the more credible the rumour seemingly becomes.

[66-1112520797]

Peewee I agree with mostly what you've said, and I think I stand on the same side of the fence as you when we air our opinions about a largely dissapointing season. Champions league aside we were poor, no doubt and like you I get fed up with people covering over the cracks with the same old excuses. I though after 18 years or so those same old excuses would of ran out the famous one being "Next year we'll win it we're only 2-3 players short".

Thats fine, what I call blind faith. But for all his apparent flaws I would love fot  Rafa to see this out. Not just bottle it and walk from the job, because lack of funds or whatever. I want to see if this man can achieve what we all hope, so far domestically he has by no means got it right. But we've all being saying next seasons an important one, the excuses will have to stop now, as it appeared we had the money to spend and improve. So I'd like for us to hang to him and take up the challenge, of getting us the league.

[112-1077774096]

just playing devils advocate here guys, football is football, if we are good enough to beat barca when we play our full team, surely that shows the poor results in the league were down to poor team selection (not talking about the chelsea away or man utd home games, we played a strong team and still lost, thats was down to two sucker punches and our strikers not being able to hit a cows  @rse with a banjo)

Just playing devil's advocate myself here Peewee...perhaps it was down to the players on the pitch.  Theoretically, our second choice players in many--not all--positions are better than the first-teamers at many clubs in the league and yet they didn't get the job done.  Does this make it entirely Rafa's fault for playing them or should we expect a little more from the squad as a whole?  Before you answer, remember that Rafa is the same manager that helped Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan earn Champions League medals so it's hard to argue that he can't motivate mediocre players to give their best.

well bob its a good question, but if they dont perform in one game why keep playing them? they were obvioulsy not up to the job (oh yes i forgot he wanted to keep playing them so the regulars where fit at the end of the season to win........................................... erm can someone help me, what did we win with all these fit first teamers, oh yeah nothing because his desire to play understrength teams pretty much left us with one trophy to go for, and then he got that wrong.

now i dont understand why you mentioed traore and biscan, of course if we still had traore and biscan last season and he motivated them personally then it would make sense, but to say he motivated them, while at the same time he failed to motivate others doesnt really make a good argument. maybe they were a one off, maybe the players themselves realised they had to do something, who knows but to say it was down to benitez while he then failed to do the same last season just reeks of looking for answers where they dont exist

[112-1077774096]

Peewee I agree with mostly what you've said, and I think I stand on the same side of the fence as you when we air our opinions about a largely dissapointing season. Champions league aside we were poor, no doubt and like you I get fed up with people covering over the cracks with the same old excuses. I though after 18 years or so those same old excuses would of ran out the famous one being "Next year we'll win it we're only 2-3 players short".

Thats fine, what I call blind faith. But for all his apparent flaws I would love fot  Rafa to see this out. Not just bottle it and walk from the job, because lack of funds or whatever. I want to see if this man can achieve what we all hope, so far domestically he has by no means got it right. But we've all being saying next seasons an important one, the excuses will have to stop now, as it appeared we had the money to spend and improve. So I'd like for us to hang to him and take up the challenge, of getting us the league.

oh mate i agree, i would love nothing more than seeing benitez with the premier league trophy in his hands, plese nobody think i want benitez to leave, i dont, i want im to prove me wrong more than anything, like i say mate the club is important to me and we need satan himslef then so be it.

but if cant do it then he cant do it and there will be no point carrying on with rafa benitez, there will be no tears shed here like when shankly left and paisley left, just a desire for the next guy to win it, but hey lets hope rafa can do it, next season there really can be no excuses when we have made the signings he wants, no world cup to blame etc

[tubby]

me how much have Man Utd spent this week!!!

I read the other day that there should be 2 signings by the end of this week. I hope it wasnt the youngsters we have got.

[mighty mo]

this story is utter bull, he has just been commenting on the 2 signings of the hungarian lads,we have just signed the best young talent in brazil, and malouda is supposed to have a medical planned for june ,this is the part of the year i hate,funny season when utter rumours  are spread all over.

[Sabre]

:censored: me how much have Man Utd spent this week!!!

I read the other day that there should be 2 signings by the end of this week. I hope it wasnt the youngsters we have got.

Well curiously enough 2 days ago I read that LFC wanted that portuguese Nani, and today I read Manchester Utd bought him AND another player for 55M Euro, 30 M quid or so.

That's what Rafa meant by "you have to act quickly".

So far, he's managed to talk with the new owners, and he's happy despite not talking about budget. As the new owners say Rafa is the man, Manchester spends big money.

It's time to put the money on Rafa's hands, it's not time to talk.

Just to reiterate, I think this story is a joke.

[Bad Bob]

just playing devils advocate here guys, football is football, if we are good enough to beat barca when we play our full team, surely that shows the poor results in the league were down to poor team selection (not talking about the chelsea away or man utd home games, we played a strong team and still lost, thats was down to two sucker punches and our strikers not being able to hit a cows  @rse with a banjo)

Just playing devil's advocate myself here Peewee...perhaps it was down to the players on the pitch.  Theoretically, our second choice players in many--not all--positions are better than the first-teamers at many clubs in the league and yet they didn't get the job done.  Does this make it entirely Rafa's fault for playing them or should we expect a little more from the squad as a whole?  Before you answer, remember that Rafa is the same manager that helped Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan earn Champions League medals so it's hard to argue that he can't motivate mediocre players to give their best.

well bob its a good question, but if they dont perform in one game why keep playing them? they were obvioulsy not up to the job (oh yes i forgot he wanted to keep playing them so the regulars where fit at the end of the season to win........................................... erm can someone help me, what did we win with all these fit first teamers, oh yeah nothing because his desire to play understrength teams pretty much left us with one trophy to go for, and then he got that wrong.

now i dont understand why you mentioed traore and biscan, of course if we still had traore and biscan last season and he motivated them personally then it would make sense, but to say he motivated them, while at the same time he failed to motivate others doesnt really make a good argument. maybe they were a one off, maybe the players themselves realised they had to do something, who knows but to say it was down to benitez while he then failed to do the same last season just reeks of looking for answers where they dont exist

All I'm trying to suggest, Peewee, is that the players need to take some responsibility for sub-par performances too.  Yes, the buck stops with Rafa ultimately but I think it's reasonable for him to expect that certain players--players fighting for a run in the first team--do a lot more with the chances they are given.  I've agreed in other threads that over-rotation let Rafa down early in the season: 3-4-5 changes per game did not allow us to build momentum.  But, I still think there were too many decent squad players who failed to step up when called upon...which means they're not fit to wear the shirt.  Maybe Rafa should have refused to rotate based on these sub-par performances but I still think the players need to shoulder some of the blame for letting the club down.

[stmichael]

How has such a silly, random rumour been given so much air space on all the forums?

It's bullsh#t.

[Ciggy]

They are saying on another forum its nothing to do with the transfer kity its about Parry wanting Owen back and Rafa not wanting anything to do with it
It will all come out in the wash

from the other forum not my words.

Michael Owen is 100% certain he will be a Liverpool player next season. Apparently Rick Parry has promised him he will be bought. Rafa has said he has no plans for him, to which Parry said, he will be bought from money which will not affect your transfer buissness. He will be bought from money which Liverpool make by getting rid of players. Parry said he will not and cannot make rafa play him, but he belives there will be many oppourtunities where he will still be needed next season. Rafa is not happy, but parry has got the americans to ensure him, they will still go for the players he has requested, and has already named. They have also assured him no one will get involved in team selection other than Rafa, which is why Rafa carnt understand Parrys insistence on buying him.