Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

He had no choice in selling Owen - short term memory loss or what? In case you've forgotten (which you clearly have) Owen backed us into a corner by running his contract down to only 1 year left and it was either sell him or let him go on a free as he wanted to go to Madrid regardless.

i thought owen wasnt offered a contract, and to let a player like that get to within one year is a mistake on behalf of the board anyway, players like him should never get within 2 years of their contract or you run the risk of them going for less than their market value

Yeah but thats not Rafa's fault Peewee.

[account deleted by request]

The way I remember the Owen saga, was Owen said he wanted CL football and would only sign a new contract if achieved it. We finished 4th got CL football, and Owen said unfortunately his agent was on holiday for 4 weeks! so he would have to wait, but there was no problem. Rafa signs. Liverpool go on tour of USA and Owen says there are just one or two minor things to sort out then he will sign.

Real Madrid start sniffing round smelling blood. Owen says he is willing to leave any decision till Christmas (coincidentally the time he can sign a precontract to leave for nothing). Rafa says sign or we will sell. Owen on bench for preliminary game. Owen sold to R.madrid.

[Igor Zidane]

The way I remember the Owen saga, was Owen said he wanted CL football and would only sign a new contract if achieved it. We finished 4th got CL football, and Owen said unfortunately his agent was on holiday for 4 weeks! so he would have to wait, but there was no problem. Rafa signs. Liverpool go on tour of USA and Owen says there are just one or two minor things to sort out then he will sign.

Real Madrid start sniffing round smelling blood. Owen says he is willing to leave any decision till Christmas (coincidentally the time he can sign a precontract to leave for nothing). Rafa says sign or we will sell. Owen on bench for preliminary game. Owen sold to R.madrid.

Spot on that saint, although peewee is right in saying we should have sorted owen out when he had 2 years left at least, but that was down to houllier and the board not rafa.

[account deleted by request]

The way I remember the Owen saga, was Owen said he wanted CL football and would only sign a new contract if achieved it. We finished 4th got CL football, and Owen said unfortunately his agent was on holiday for 4 weeks! so he would have to wait, but there was no problem. Rafa signs. Liverpool go on tour of USA and Owen says there are just one or two minor things to sort out then he will sign.

Real Madrid start sniffing round smelling blood. Owen says he is willing to leave any decision till Christmas (coincidentally the time he can sign a precontract to leave for nothing). Rafa says sign or we will sell. Owen on bench for preliminary game. Owen sold to R.madrid.

Spot on that saint, although peewee is right in saying we should have sorted owen out when he had 2 years left at least, but that was down to houllier and the board not rafa.

At the time I presume the board took a gamble on us achieving  CL football rather than having to sell Owen for £20million+ they could have got at the time. Thinking that would be the only stumbling block, it was an admirable gamble. I think they also thought bringing in a new manager might buy them a bit of time as well.

Once R.Madrid came in I think it was all over bar the shouting.

[metalhead]

Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final. Shitty teams against Arsenal got us knocked out of the domestic cups last year. Man utd have signed 3 top players. Chelsea are also involved in transfers and its sad to say this but i think unless we get a new manager we wont win the league. He sold owen bad mistake and bought Sissoko bad mistake and he plays Gerrard rm another bad mistake. Im not saying i want him sacked but if he resigned it wouldnt be the worse thing

At least construct some constructive criticism mate, jot some ideas on why tactically Rafa lost us the final.

His tactics were spot on, its just we dont have enough quality upfront. I would have been positive we would have won the game if we had an owen type of player or RVN type of player.

Plus he did some mistakes in his substitutions. Tactically he got it right, i'll reteriate, we just ARE NOT good enough upfront.

[LFC2007]

Loads of bóllocks written in the press. If that is true, it means that "we'll back you" isn't true. If they do an investigation of that nature, what is it for? at the end of the day to limit and find excuses not to deploy the promised money?

The quotes from the Americans and Rafa, and what the press say do not match. And it seems to me the press doesn't want an stablished Liverpool so they try to unsettle the club at all costs.

That is all you ever say these days, printed by the press " It must be bullocks" and " The press doesnt want a stablished Liverpool so try and unsettle the club"

Whats that all about mate, you've been saying this alot recently and I dont understand it, especially the press trying to unsettle us, why would they do that

BTW Metalhead your probably right.

Sabre is trying to point out how the press very rarely get all the facts of a story spot on, they enhance stories to try and make them more saleable. Not only do they enhance stories, they also fabricate them and they also hype the smallest detail of a sentence to make it sound as if World War 3 is going to kick off.

The press will try to de-stabilise any club, if they spot anything that can possibly be exploited in the press, they will do it. They don't take comments by managers at face value, they extrapolate what they have said until they have reached the conclusion that "he is sick of Parry, he wants him out".

I see what Sabre is pointing out, and you obviously agree that the press try and " de-stabilise a club" and whatever, and that they cant be believed in what they say or print. But your previous post to the one I have just quoted is of a fan who sounds very unhappy about the accountacy article, from the independant.

Ironic isnt it.

It's not ironic at all, if you believed everything you read in the papers I think you would be a very sad person. Notice how you won't answer the points in my post individually, you have to come out with a general rant about how I distrust papers.

[112-1077774096]

He had no choice in selling Owen - short term memory loss or what? In case you've forgotten (which you clearly have) Owen backed us into a corner by running his contract down to only 1 year left and it was either sell him or let him go on a free as he wanted to go to Madrid regardless.

i thought owen wasnt offered a contract, and to let a player like that get to within one year is a mistake on behalf of the board anyway, players like him should never get within 2 years of their contract or you run the risk of them going for less than their market value

Yeah but thats not Rafa's fault Peewee.

i never said it was     

[tubby]

The bottom line is as far as we know from what the gaf has said himself is that he got a posative reaction from the bosses regarding rebuilding the squad. We know, Rafa knows that we have to spend big to challange for the Premiership. Ok Arsenal done one season with collectivly not a lot money spent but how often does that happen?

At the end of the day if the new owners do something Rafa doesnt like he will leave, hes done it before at Valencia and could do it again.

[Lando_Griffin]

Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final. Shitty teams against Arsenal got us knocked out of the domestic cups last year. Man utd have signed 3 top players. Chelsea are also involved in transfers and its sad to say this but i think unless we get a new manager we wont win the league. He sold owen bad mistake and bought Sissoko bad mistake and he plays Gerrard rm another bad mistake. Im not saying i want him sacked but if he resigned it wouldnt be the worse thing

Class - this is what we call an "Idiot".

[RichardLFC1]

Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final. Shitty teams against Arsenal got us knocked out of the domestic cups last year. Man utd have signed 3 top players. Chelsea are also involved in transfers and its sad to say this but i think unless we get a new manager we wont win the league. He sold owen bad mistake and bought Sissoko bad mistake and he plays Gerrard rm another bad mistake. Im not saying i want him sacked but if he resigned it wouldnt be the worse thing

Woah, think before you post lad.

HE lost us the CL final? Mate he may have made some mistakes but to blame it soley on him is nothing short of lunacy. The team he picked outplayed Milan the whole first half, and it's hardly his fault we didn't take our chances. His reaction after going 1-0 down has coem under scrutiny and rightly so but again he's hardly solely responsible.

Shitty teams like Arsenal?  What a joke of a statement. They are still the most fluid team in England on their day along with ManU and they are still a top 4 side, hardly 'shitty'   

He had no choice in selling Owen - short term memory loss or what? In case you've forgotten (which you clearly have) Owen backed us into a corner by running his contract down to only 1 year left and it was either sell him or let him go on a free as he wanted to go to Madrid regardless. Have a go at Own by all means but to have a pop at Rafa for Owen's transfer really shows you have very little clue on the issue.

Sissoko signing a BAD mistake? You are joking right, granted he's been a little overhyped and he's no Patrick Vieira but he has done a good job since joing the club, making some major contributions in massive games. He didn't cost a lot either so how you see it as a bad mistake is absolutely beyond me.

Criticism towards Rafa is fine, but it should at least be constructive which yours quite clearly isn't.

I believe he lost us the final because of his tactics. He played only 1 out and out striker in Dirk Kuyt. There was nothing wrong wit the team on the day apart from we couldnt finish the defense were solid and although we conceeded twice wasnt at fault. Pennant was great on the right Zendem done a fair bit on the left before coming off for Kewell who played well. Mascharano stuck to Kaka like Glue and took him out of the game and alonso who didnt have the best game by any stretch of the imagination but still didnt play poor. The Problem lies with the formation 1 striker doesnt put out the right attitude.


I never said arsenal were i said when we played against them we played teams so you think before you post mate.

The owen issue noone knows what happend behind closed doors bu 1 thing which is certain is that he wanted to come to liverpool when he left madrid and Rafa was too stubborn to bring him back.

Sissoko. Cant Score. Cant pass. Yeah he may be a player to break up play but the lad cant even tackle.

Constructive criticism you say. Well i dont think he is the man for the job my opinion.

[cornetto1]

"Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final. Shitty teams against Arsenal got us knocked out of the domestic cups last year. Man utd have signed 3 top players. Chelsea are also involved in transfers and its sad to say this but i think unless we get a new manager we wont win the league. He sold owen bad mistake and bought Sissoko bad mistake and he plays Gerrard rm another bad mistake. Im not saying i want him sacked but if he resigned it wouldnt be the worse thing"

In relation to the above quote that was made - how did Rafa lose us the champions league final??? I seen what Milan did to Utd in the semis, they tore them to pieces. They came up against us in the final and we completely nullified their attcking ability. The only thing missing for us and that stopped us winning the champs league final was that bit of class that we lack up front. The simple fact it we need to spend big in terms of attacking options cos we have such a solid defensive and midfield unit. Look at the clean sheets we kept this year, excellent defensively, we just need to go now and spend that bit more money and buy world class attaking players who can make an instant impact on our team. I honestly believe that is the key to us challenging and its all cos of Rafa who I believe is a tactical genius and is the best man I see able to bring us that last step and challenge for the premiership.

Buying sissoko was a mistake?? He lost us the Champs League final??? get a grip mate!! I'm sure you weren't saying sissoko was a mistake when you watched him boss Barca in the Nou Camp or say Benitez hadnt a clue when he got us to the final!!!

Rant over............

[Bad Bob]

I believe he lost us the final because of his tactics. He played only 1 out and out striker in Dirk Kuyt. There was nothing wrong wit the team on the day apart from we couldnt finish the defense were solid and although we conceeded twice wasnt at fault. Pennant was great on the right Zendem done a fair bit on the left before coming off for Kewell who played well. Mascharano stuck to Kaka like Glue and took him out of the game and alonso who didnt have the best game by any stretch of the imagination but still didnt play poor. The Problem lies with the formation 1 striker doesnt put out the right attitude.

Look, lad, I'd suggest that the key reason that:

1) the defense looked very solid

AND

2) Pennant played well

Was precisely because we played 4-5-1.  Yes, Mascherano (primarily) did a job on Kaka but would he have been so effective if we didn't have the midfield numbers to also mark Pirlo and Seedorf out of the game?  Milan got virtually no change out of us all game because we won the midfield battle and we won the midfield battle because we matched their 4-5-1 formation.  The moment we reverted to 4-4-2, wham, Kaka got open and they scored a second.

At the other end of the pitch, our formation allowed the wide players more room to play because their fullbacks were more concerned with tucking and keeping Gerrard contained.  Pennant found himself with the ball in space quite a bit--good tactics there.  But, his final ball was poor most of the game, which is on him, I'm afraid.  A better ball into Gerrard's feet in the box (rather than waist high) at the 20 minute mark and we would likely have taken a deserved 1-0 lead.  On the other side of the pitch, Zenden had space too but since he's rubbish at beating a man and putting a cross in, he never exploited it.  Again, the formation was the right one but the player didn't meet the required standard to make it work.

Nor, it needs pointing out, was it the formation's fault that Gerrard failed to finish when clear through on Dida.  In fact, I'd argue that it was the 4-5-1 that got Gerrard into that position in the first place.

Look, there is nothing inherently negative or defensive about 4-5-1 and the number of chances we created in the game demonstrates this.  To take another example, Man U largely played a 4-5-1 since Saha's injury and no one's accusing them of being negative.  Conversely, you can play 4-4-2 and never really create a thing all game.  So, this business about not putting out the "right attitude" is naive to say the least.

[Naomi]

Highly unlikely Benitez will resign, we still got to the CL final, an achievement in itself, IMO Benitez is a good and decent manager.

Time to put this thread to bed:D

[LFC2007]

Rafa isnt the tactical genius everyone thinks he is. He lost us the champions league final. Shitty teams against Arsenal got us knocked out of the domestic cups last year. Man utd have signed 3 top players. Chelsea are also involved in transfers and its sad to say this but i think unless we get a new manager we wont win the league. He sold owen bad mistake and bought Sissoko bad mistake and he plays Gerrard rm another bad mistake. Im not saying i want him sacked but if he resigned it wouldnt be the worse thing

Woah, think before you post lad.

HE lost us the CL final? Mate he may have made some mistakes but to blame it soley on him is nothing short of lunacy. The team he picked outplayed Milan the whole first half, and it's hardly his fault we didn't take our chances. His reaction after going 1-0 down has coem under scrutiny and rightly so but again he's hardly solely responsible.

Shitty teams like Arsenal?  What a joke of a statement. They are still the most fluid team in England on their day along with ManU and they are still a top 4 side, hardly 'shitty'   

He had no choice in selling Owen - short term memory loss or what? In case you've forgotten (which you clearly have) Owen backed us into a corner by running his contract down to only 1 year left and it was either sell him or let him go on a free as he wanted to go to Madrid regardless. Have a go at Own by all means but to have a pop at Rafa for Owen's transfer really shows you have very little clue on the issue.

Sissoko signing a BAD mistake? You are joking right, granted he's been a little overhyped and he's no Patrick Vieira but he has done a good job since joing the club, making some major contributions in massive games. He didn't cost a lot either so how you see it as a bad mistake is absolutely beyond me.

Criticism towards Rafa is fine, but it should at least be constructive which yours quite clearly isn't.

I believe he lost us the final because of his tactics. He played only 1 out and out striker in Dirk Kuyt. There was nothing wrong wit the team on the day apart from we couldnt finish the defense were solid and although we conceeded twice wasnt at fault. Pennant was great on the right Zendem done a fair bit on the left before coming off for Kewell who played well. Mascharano stuck to Kaka like Glue and took him out of the game and alonso who didnt have the best game by any stretch of the imagination but still didnt play poor. The Problem lies with the formation 1 striker doesnt put out the right attitude.


I never said arsenal were i said when we played against them we played teams so you think before you post mate.

The owen issue noone knows what happend behind closed doors bu 1 thing which is certain is that he wanted to come to liverpool when he left madrid and Rafa was too stubborn to bring him back.

Sissoko. Cant Score. Cant pass. Yeah he may be a player to break up play but the lad cant even tackle.

Constructive criticism you say. Well i dont think he is the man for the job my opinion.

1) Teams lose matches, not managers.

2) You can argue about Rafa's errors all day long and with hindsight we are all right and we all claim to know how it should have been done. Had we gone with two up top, yes we may have had more attacking threat but in all likelihood we'd have ended up playing one holding player, who's to predict what could have happened in that situation? Kaka and Seedorf may have run riot, either that or you play Gerrard on the right? And no-one wants that do they!


3) As for Zenden doing a "fair bit", I'd say he was possibly the worst player on the pitch, likewise, Kewell hardly made an impact when he came on, but is Kewell failing to impact Rafa's fault? I don't think so. What more can he do than work with what he's got.

4) Although Pennant made some decent runs and exploited Milan's left side early on, I don't think his quality and final ball was particularly effective. Nor was his crossing.

5) Rafa tried to sign Owen, we didn't have the funds, and Newcastle came in with a ridiculous bid. Get your facts right. Rafa too "stubborn"! Could you blame him him IF he didn't want him anyway? I don't think so, after running his contract down and leaving us in the lurch in his first season.

6) Sissoko, MOM vs Barcelona, highly effective in games this season and last, almost player of season last year.


Finally, I find it highly ironic that you don't think Rafa is the man for the job and he is no "tactical genius" given your Avatar represents his greatest tactical genius of them all, who else could have won the UCL with such a depleted squad in 04/05?


I think you are public numpty numero uno.

[destro]

Its a pity the thread didnt have a date aswell as a day because for me Monday cant come quick enough then we can end this