Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

Well such is the factionism of the forum, it's no surprise that some are laughing teacakes while others are spitting blood. The best and most insightful post IMHO was Ciggy's one where she pointed out that what Rafa brings to the table as far as the owners are concerned is guaranteed Champions League football. That's spot on for me and the main reason why they've offered the new contract.

Just a couple of observations from me. Firstly the money. It's a bit of a giggle to hear somebody say "it's not about the money" and then sign a sixteen million quid contract. Not necessarily a criticism of Rafa here as it's the economics of English football, but it's an obscene amount of money and Heimdall is spot on here in that football is setting itself up for a fall. I'm not going to bother with a disclaimer at the bottom, but please any feckwits understand I'm not having a go at the manager for getting what he can, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction between the statement and the action.

It's a very long and lucrative contract IMHO given the amount of actual achievement over the previous four seasons.

We won the Champions League in Rafa's first season with a team which was mostly made up of what he was left. By any definition if we're honest it's fair to say we got a bit of the rub of the green in that competition (once again no disclaimers but please remember the "if we're honest" bit before going off on one). Since then he has rebuilt the playing side of the club and IMHO we are in a much stronger position than when he arrived. I do think we have made a few wrong turns along the way, perhaps sold some players we shouldn't have and certainly bought some we shouldn't have, but we have certainly IMHO progressed which is an achievement.

During that four year period, we also won the FA Cup, and had some good runs in the Champions League. We also qualified for the Champions League the following season by virtue of league position (with the exception of his first season where we qualified becasue they changed the rules to let us in). In his previous four seasons, we have finished I think 5th once, 4th twice and 3rd once. Previous to this season, we have never at any stage launched a title challenge of any description whatsoever.

From a youth setup point of view, we are yet to see any tangible benefits of the policy of scouring the World for the formost talent at under 15-16-17 level. We may yet do so of course, but so far it hasn't really happened.

From a transfer funding point of view, I think I'm right in saying that since Rafa has been at the club we have spent more money than Arsenal and Man Utd, and a little less than Chelsea. I'm definately right in saying we have spent a sh!tload more than everybody else. We have bought some great players who are worth more than we paid for them, some rubbish that is worth less, and some on whom the jury is still out. In general though, I would rate Rafa as decent in the transfer market based on his four previous seasons.

We have it's fair to say, had a good go at styling in the Premiership (now thankfully into the bin as a policy). We have proven absolutely conclusively that it doesn't work when you haven't got a squad which boasts top quality cover for each player. My biggest worry about the length of this contract and the power it therefore gives the manager is is that if we ever arrive at a situation where we have that top quality cover, we might have another go at proving that it would infact work with a stronger squad.

All that said though, this season we are going well. We aren't rotating "Rafa style" and are top of the league. Will it last, either the top of the league bit or the sensible selection? Time will tell, but on hearing the length of the deal and the renumeration offered, I am more convinced than ever that Rafa is a "lucky manager". Lets hope it all works out. If he lasts the contract out, he'll have been here nine years. Now how does the argument go again? Ah yes that's right, "remember it took Ferguson seven years to win the Premiership at Man Utd etc etc etc etc".

[aCe']

Well such is the factionism of the forum, it's no surprise that some are laughing teacakes while others are spitting blood. The best and most insightful post IMHO was Ciggy's one where she pointed out that what Rafa brings to the table as far as the owners are concerned is guaranteed Champions League football. That's spot on for me and the main reason why they've offered the new contract.

Just a couple of observations from me. Firstly the money. It's a bit of a giggle to hear somebody say "it's not about the money" and then sign a sixteen million quid contract. Not necessarily a criticism of Rafa here as it's the economics of English football, but it's an obscene amount of money and Heimdall is spot on here in that football is setting itself up for a fall. I'm not going to bother with a disclaimer at the bottom, but please any feckwits understand I'm not having a go at the manager for getting what he can, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction between the statement and the action.

It's a very long and lucrative contract IMHO given the amount of actual achievement over the previous four seasons.

We won the Champions League in Rafa's first season with a team which was mostly made up of what he was left. By any definition if we're honest it's fair to say we got a bit of the rub of the green in that competition (once again no disclaimers but please remember the "if we're honest" bit before going off on one). Since then he has rebuilt the playing side of the club and IMHO we are in a much stronger position than when he arrived. I do think we have made a few wrong turns along the way, perhaps sold some players we shouldn't have and certainly bought some we shouldn't have, but we have certainly IMHO progressed which is an achievement.

During that four year period, we also won the FA Cup, and had some good runs in the Champions League. We also qualified for the Champions League the following season by virtue of league position (with the exception of his first season where we qualified becasue they changed the rules to let us in). In his previous four seasons, we have finished I think 5th once, 4th twice and 3rd once. Previous to this season, we have never at any stage launched a title challenge of any description whatsoever.

From a youth setup point of view, we are yet to see any tangible benefits of the policy of scouring the World for the formost talent at under 15-16-17 level. We may yet do so of course, but so far it hasn't really happened.

From a transfer funding point of view, I think I'm right in saying that since Rafa has been at the club we have spent more money than Arsenal and Man Utd, and a little less than Chelsea. I'm definately right in saying we have spent a sh!tload more than everybody else. We have bought some great players who are worth more than we paid for them, some rubbish that is worth less, and some on whom the jury is still out. In general though, I would rate Rafa as decent in the transfer market based on his four previous seasons.

We have it's fair to say, had a good go at styling in the Premiership (now thankfully into the bin as a policy). We have proven absolutely conclusively that it doesn't work when you haven't got a squad which boasts top quality cover for each player. My biggest worry about the length of this contract and the power it therefore gives the manager is is that if we ever arrive at a situation where we have that top quality cover, we might have another go at proving that it would infact work with a stronger squad.

All that said though, this season we are going well. We aren't rotating "Rafa style" and are top of the league. Will it last, either the top of the league bit or the sensible selection? Time will tell, but on hearing the length of the deal and the renumeration offered, I am more convinced than ever that Rafa is a "lucky manager". Lets hope it all works out. If he lasts the contract out, he'll have been here nine years. Now how does the argument go again? Ah yes that's right, "remember it took Ferguson seven years to win the Premiership at Man Utd etc etc etc etc".

good post...
couplle of things i dont really understand though... We keep talking about how improved the team is from how we used to be when Rafa took over... how we'r such a better side today than we were 2 or 3 seasons ago... well you wont get much argument from me there because obviously everyone has their own way of comparing and all... but what seems to be the problem is that other teams in the league and particularly the two strongest sides in the country (ManUtd and Chelsea) have also improved in the same given time period... We have been finishing 4th and 3rd in the odd occasion during Rafa's reign and we'v won the Champions League before all the improvements and all have been made...

imo all the improvements we made in the past few years since Rafa took over have been in the defensive part of our game... bar torres, all the good signings he made were to strengthen the defensive part of our game... in the meantime, you look at Chelsea, Manutd and even Arsenal, and you see a more complete side with quality all over the pitch..  i dont see us staying top for much longer, i see us struggling in a few games we should normally be taking for granted... and that would be lights out for us imo... not being negative or anything just being realistic...

until we improve in going forwad and until rafa realizes that you only so often get all three points by not conceding ... i dont think we'll be able to match the likes of ManUtd and Chelsea in a title challenge over the course of a full season..

[Number 9]

Well such is the factionism of the forum, it's no surprise that some are laughing teacakes while others are spitting blood. The best and most insightful post IMHO was Ciggy's one where she pointed out that what Rafa brings to the table as far as the owners are concerned is guaranteed Champions League football. That's spot on for me and the main reason why they've offered the new contract.

Just a couple of observations from me. Firstly the money. It's a bit of a giggle to hear somebody say "it's not about the money" and then sign a sixteen million quid contract. Not necessarily a criticism of Rafa here as it's the economics of English football, but it's an obscene amount of money and Heimdall is spot on here in that football is setting itself up for a fall. I'm not going to bother with a disclaimer at the bottom, but please any feckwits understand I'm not having a go at the manager for getting what he can, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction between the statement and the action.

It's a very long and lucrative contract IMHO given the amount of actual achievement over the previous four seasons.

We won the Champions League in Rafa's first season with a team which was mostly made up of what he was left. By any definition if we're honest it's fair to say we got a bit of the rub of the green in that competition (once again no disclaimers but please remember the "if we're honest" bit before going off on one). Since then he has rebuilt the playing side of the club and IMHO we are in a much stronger position than when he arrived. I do think we have made a few wrong turns along the way, perhaps sold some players we shouldn't have and certainly bought some we shouldn't have, but we have certainly IMHO progressed which is an achievement.

During that four year period, we also won the FA Cup, and had some good runs in the Champions League. We also qualified for the Champions League the following season by virtue of league position (with the exception of his first season where we qualified becasue they changed the rules to let us in). In his previous four seasons, we have finished I think 5th once, 4th twice and 3rd once. Previous to this season, we have never at any stage launched a title challenge of any description whatsoever.

From a youth setup point of view, we are yet to see any tangible benefits of the policy of scouring the World for the formost talent at under 15-16-17 level. We may yet do so of course, but so far it hasn't really happened.

From a transfer funding point of view, I think I'm right in saying that since Rafa has been at the club we have spent more money than Arsenal and Man Utd, and a little less than Chelsea. I'm definately right in saying we have spent a sh!tload more than everybody else. We have bought some great players who are worth more than we paid for them, some rubbish that is worth less, and some on whom the jury is still out. In general though, I would rate Rafa as decent in the transfer market based on his four previous seasons.

We have it's fair to say, had a good go at styling in the Premiership (now thankfully into the bin as a policy). We have proven absolutely conclusively that it doesn't work when you haven't got a squad which boasts top quality cover for each player. My biggest worry about the length of this contract and the power it therefore gives the manager is is that if we ever arrive at a situation where we have that top quality cover, we might have another go at proving that it would infact work with a stronger squad.

All that said though, this season we are going well. We aren't rotating "Rafa style" and are top of the league. Will it last, either the top of the league bit or the sensible selection? Time will tell, but on hearing the length of the deal and the renumeration offered, I am more convinced than ever that Rafa is a "lucky manager". Lets hope it all works out. If he lasts the contract out, he'll have been here nine years. Now how does the argument go again? Ah yes that's right, "remember it took Ferguson seven years to win the Premiership at Man Utd etc etc etc etc".

good post...
couplle of things i dont really understand though... We keep talking about how improved the team is from how we used to be when Rafa took over... how we'r such a better side today than we were 2 or 3 seasons ago... well you wont get much argument from me there because obviously everyone has their own way of comparing and all... but what seems to be the problem is that other teams in the league and particularly the two strongest sides in the country (ManUtd and Chelsea) have also improved in the same given time period... We have been finishing 4th and 3rd in the odd occasion during Rafa's reign and we'v won the Champions League before all the improvements and all have been made...

imo all the improvements we made in the past few years since Rafa took over have been in the defensive part of our game... bar torres, all the good signings he made were to strengthen the defensive part of our game... in the meantime, you look at Chelsea, Manutd and even Arsenal, and you see a more complete side with quality all over the pitch..  i dont see us staying top for much longer, i see us struggling in a few games we should normally be taking for granted... and that would be lights out for us imo... not being negative or anything just being realistic...

until we improve in going forwad and until rafa realizes that you only so often get all three points by not conceding ... i dont think we'll be able to match the likes of ManUtd and Chelsea in a title challenge over the course of a full season..

Absolute Bollox from one of the most shi'te talking idiots on the whole board!

All rafas signings have been defensive you basically say?
Fernando Torres and Robbie Keane..you little w@nker!

As for Rafas contract,if ya dont like it fuc,k off!

Heimdall is NEVER spot on

They changed the rules to let us in?Bitters say that!

Rafa is lucky..Yeah I agree,lucky to be at LFC
and until he realizes that we have the best striker in world football on the slab whilst being TOP of the toughest League in football.

To sum it up you annoy me!

Chelsea and UTD are better..You fancy them for the title

[aCe']

Well such is the factionism of the forum, it's no surprise that some are laughing teacakes while others are spitting blood. The best and most insightful post IMHO was Ciggy's one where she pointed out that what Rafa brings to the table as far as the owners are concerned is guaranteed Champions League football. That's spot on for me and the main reason why they've offered the new contract.

Just a couple of observations from me. Firstly the money. It's a bit of a giggle to hear somebody say "it's not about the money" and then sign a sixteen million quid contract. Not necessarily a criticism of Rafa here as it's the economics of English football, but it's an obscene amount of money and Heimdall is spot on here in that football is setting itself up for a fall. I'm not going to bother with a disclaimer at the bottom, but please any feckwits understand I'm not having a go at the manager for getting what he can, I'm merely pointing out the contradiction between the statement and the action.

It's a very long and lucrative contract IMHO given the amount of actual achievement over the previous four seasons.

We won the Champions League in Rafa's first season with a team which was mostly made up of what he was left. By any definition if we're honest it's fair to say we got a bit of the rub of the green in that competition (once again no disclaimers but please remember the "if we're honest" bit before going off on one). Since then he has rebuilt the playing side of the club and IMHO we are in a much stronger position than when he arrived. I do think we have made a few wrong turns along the way, perhaps sold some players we shouldn't have and certainly bought some we shouldn't have, but we have certainly IMHO progressed which is an achievement.

During that four year period, we also won the FA Cup, and had some good runs in the Champions League. We also qualified for the Champions League the following season by virtue of league position (with the exception of his first season where we qualified becasue they changed the rules to let us in). In his previous four seasons, we have finished I think 5th once, 4th twice and 3rd once. Previous to this season, we have never at any stage launched a title challenge of any description whatsoever.

From a youth setup point of view, we are yet to see any tangible benefits of the policy of scouring the World for the formost talent at under 15-16-17 level. We may yet do so of course, but so far it hasn't really happened.

From a transfer funding point of view, I think I'm right in saying that since Rafa has been at the club we have spent more money than Arsenal and Man Utd, and a little less than Chelsea. I'm definately right in saying we have spent a sh!tload more than everybody else. We have bought some great players who are worth more than we paid for them, some rubbish that is worth less, and some on whom the jury is still out. In general though, I would rate Rafa as decent in the transfer market based on his four previous seasons.

We have it's fair to say, had a good go at styling in the Premiership (now thankfully into the bin as a policy). We have proven absolutely conclusively that it doesn't work when you haven't got a squad which boasts top quality cover for each player. My biggest worry about the length of this contract and the power it therefore gives the manager is is that if we ever arrive at a situation where we have that top quality cover, we might have another go at proving that it would infact work with a stronger squad.

All that said though, this season we are going well. We aren't rotating "Rafa style" and are top of the league. Will it last, either the top of the league bit or the sensible selection? Time will tell, but on hearing the length of the deal and the renumeration offered, I am more convinced than ever that Rafa is a "lucky manager". Lets hope it all works out. If he lasts the contract out, he'll have been here nine years. Now how does the argument go again? Ah yes that's right, "remember it took Ferguson seven years to win the Premiership at Man Utd etc etc etc etc".

good post...
couplle of things i dont really understand though... We keep talking about how improved the team is from how we used to be when Rafa took over... how we'r such a better side today than we were 2 or 3 seasons ago... well you wont get much argument from me there because obviously everyone has their own way of comparing and all... but what seems to be the problem is that other teams in the league and particularly the two strongest sides in the country (ManUtd and Chelsea) have also improved in the same given time period... We have been finishing 4th and 3rd in the odd occasion during Rafa's reign and we'v won the Champions League before all the improvements and all have been made...

imo all the improvements we made in the past few years since Rafa took over have been in the defensive part of our game... bar torres, all the good signings he made were to strengthen the defensive part of our game... in the meantime, you look at Chelsea, Manutd and even Arsenal, and you see a more complete side with quality all over the pitch..  i dont see us staying top for much longer, i see us struggling in a few games we should normally be taking for granted... and that would be lights out for us imo... not being negative or anything just being realistic...

until we improve in going forwad and until rafa realizes that you only so often get all three points by not conceding ... i dont think we'll be able to match the likes of ManUtd and Chelsea in a title challenge over the course of a full season..

Absolute Bollox from one of the most shi'te talking idiots on the whole board!

All rafas signings have been defensive you basically say?
Fernando Torres and Robbie Keane..you little w@nker!

As for Rafas contract,if ya dont like it fuc,k off!

Heimdall is NEVER spot on

They changed the rules to let us in?Bitters say that!

Rafa is lucky..Yeah I agree,lucky to be at LFC
and until he realizes that we have the best striker in world football on the slab whilst being TOP of the toughest League in football.

To sum it up you annoy me!

Chelsea and UTD are better..You fancy them for the title

get off my back kiddo im telling you !

your starting to get annoying of late and im not having any of your sht anymore.... you sit behind a fckin monitor spouting ... have some respect and if you dont like my opinion you can either state that in a fckin acceptable way or you can just chose not to read my fcking post...

and fckin learn how to read before you go on talking ...

[Number 9]

Stop talking bollox then I'll gladly hop off your back..until then I'll be on you're back like a rat up a sewer pipe!
DONT LIKE IT?

Lifes like that!

[aCe']

Stop talking bollox then I'll gladly hop off your back..until then I'll be on you're back like a rat up a sewer pipe!
DONT LIKE IT?

Lifes like that!

yea okay... sorry for talking sir, promise i wont do it again !

[Number 9]

:laugh:
Stop talking bollox then I'll gladly hop off your back..until then I'll be on you're back like a rat up a sewer pipe!
DONT LIKE IT?

Lifes like that!

yea okay... sorry for talking sir, promise i wont do it again !

Supporters like you make me sick!
Especially now that you mentioned the bitter thing tut tut!
I love LFC,I love Rafa cause right now he is LFC..I love what he is doing and I love where we are!

Yes there are criticisms to be made but not by you!Get balance and a level headed approach..like I do!  

[bigmick]

Well I'm not surprised my post stirred it up a bit . Now lets see, what did I say that caused a problem. I said we got "a bit of the rub of the green in the competition" when we won the Champions League. I also said that we qualified for the Champions Leaguer after that first season because they "changed the rules to let us in".

Im sorry, but the second one is a statement of fact. If they hadn't changed the rules, we wouldn't have got in or am I missing something here? I actually think they were correct to change the rules, as the holders ought to have the right to defend the trophy. It doesn't though change the facts of the matter, if they hadn't changed the rules we wouldn't have been in because we came fifth in the league. I suppose us having our share of luck in the competition is not fact, it's merely my opinion but I'm absolutely staggered that someone would possibly try and deny it.

I've tried to keep my post fairly factual, including what we've won, league positions, transfer spends etc. I've simply given my opinion that based on what has been achived in the previous four seasons, I think that rafa is fortunate to be offered such a good deal IMHO. Are we still allowed to offer an opinion on the forum, or do we all just say "yep, good on you Rafa. Infact, they should have made it worth 50 million and offered him the job for life".

[Zidane]

People give the man too much I think.  Everyone knows I don't agree with Rafa always but he's strengthened the team enormously in his time here, gotten us into two(shoulda been three) CL finals and has us at the top of the league atm.  I mean what more can you ask for the bottom line is he gets the result.  Maybe he's the luckiest manager in football or maybe he just instills a will to fight and a determination in the team that won't be denied.  In his time here the team has always had the heart of a champion and has been the most respectable team in football imo.

Anyway back on topic, I don't think us spending as much as Man U/Arsenal is that big a deal.  We had to spend more if we were going to get any better we didn't have any Rooney's, Ronaldo's, Fabregas etc coming up there was no real talent here at all so we spent a lot, yet they still managed to spend nearly as much if not more than us.  I don't know how the reserve team was then but I am sure that it is in much better shape now seeing as how a lot of people think there isn't enough room to get them all enough playing time.

As much as I get at Rafa I trust he will only make us better, who knows if we will win the league this year or next but we will always be getting better with each year, until Stevie starts to decline.

[lakes10]

that's some very blatant that that rag tried to pull there...  ... they should be sued for libel...

well going by radio 5 , they  (the S*n have it on tape of him say this .
but as radio 5 said it has all been taken out of context.

[lakes10]

go on five lives web site and look for the the radio player, i think they spoke about it around 7pm ( might have been 6pm)

[aCe']

Well I'm not surprised my post stirred it up a bit . Now lets see, what did I say that caused a problem. I said we got "a bit of the rub of the green in the competition" when we won the Champions League. I also said that we qualified for the Champions Leaguer after that first season because they "changed the rules to let us in".

Im sorry, but the second one is a statement of fact. If they hadn't changed the rules, we wouldn't have got in or am I missing something here? I actually think they were correct to change the rules, as the holders ought to have the right to defend the trophy. It doesn't though change the facts of the matter, if they hadn't changed the rules we wouldn't have been in because we came fifth in the league. I suppose us having our share of luck in the competition is not fact, it's merely my opinion but I'm absolutely staggered that someone would possibly try and deny it.

I've tried to keep my post fairly factual, including what we've won, league positions, transfer spends etc. I've simply given my opinion that based on what has been achived in the previous four seasons, I think that rafa is fortunate to be offered such a good deal IMHO. Are we still allowed to offer an opinion on the forum, or do we all just say "yep, good on you Rafa. Infact, they should have made it worth 50 million and offered him the job for life".

nothing was wrong with your post Mick.. its just that some people are more interested in replying to certain posters regardless of what the content of the post is rather than having any decent input in the discussion... he thought i was quoting someone else and saw it as a chance to have a dig at them too... had he realized it was you posting he wouldnt have made any sort of reference to your post in the first place...

[Number 9]

Well I'm not surprised my post stirred it up a bit . Now lets see, what did I say that caused a problem. I said we got "a bit of the rub of the green in the competition" when we won the Champions League. I also said that we qualified for the Champions Leaguer after that first season because they "changed the rules to let us in".

Im sorry, but the second one is a statement of fact. If they hadn't changed the rules, we wouldn't have got in or am I missing something here? I actually think they were correct to change the rules, as the holders ought to have the right to defend the trophy. It doesn't though change the facts of the matter, if they hadn't changed the rules we wouldn't have been in because we came fifth in the league. I suppose us having our share of luck in the competition is not fact, it's merely my opinion but I'm absolutely staggered that someone would possibly try and deny it.

I've tried to keep my post fairly factual, including what we've won, league positions, transfer spends etc. I've simply given my opinion that based on what has been achived in the previous four seasons, I think that rafa is fortunate to be offered such a good deal IMHO. Are we still allowed to offer an opinion on the forum, or do we all just say "yep, good on you Rafa. Infact, they should have made it worth 50 million and offered him the job for life".

nothing was wrong with your post Mick.. its just that some people are more interested in replying to certain posters regardless of what the content of the post is rather than having any decent input in the discussion... he thought i was quoting someone else and saw it as a chance to have a dig at them too... had he realized it was you posting he wouldnt have made any sort of reference to your post in the first place...

To highlight this I would like to tell you ACE that you talk more shi'te(IMO) than anyone on Newkitt.
Mick..I dont always agree with but he talks for ages,I've seen enough of his posts over the years to know that he talks sense and balls mixed in!

Its got nothing to do with personal agendas,i just think you talk shi'te!

[aCe']

Well I'm not surprised my post stirred it up a bit . Now lets see, what did I say that caused a problem. I said we got "a bit of the rub of the green in the competition" when we won the Champions League. I also said that we qualified for the Champions Leaguer after that first season because they "changed the rules to let us in".

Im sorry, but the second one is a statement of fact. If they hadn't changed the rules, we wouldn't have got in or am I missing something here? I actually think they were correct to change the rules, as the holders ought to have the right to defend the trophy. It doesn't though change the facts of the matter, if they hadn't changed the rules we wouldn't have been in because we came fifth in the league. I suppose us having our share of luck in the competition is not fact, it's merely my opinion but I'm absolutely staggered that someone would possibly try and deny it.

I've tried to keep my post fairly factual, including what we've won, league positions, transfer spends etc. I've simply given my opinion that based on what has been achived in the previous four seasons, I think that rafa is fortunate to be offered such a good deal IMHO. Are we still allowed to offer an opinion on the forum, or do we all just say "yep, good on you Rafa. Infact, they should have made it worth 50 million and offered him the job for life".

nothing was wrong with your post Mick.. its just that some people are more interested in replying to certain posters regardless of what the content of the post is rather than having any decent input in the discussion... he thought i was quoting someone else and saw it as a chance to have a dig at them too... had he realized it was you posting he wouldnt have made any sort of reference to your post in the first place...

To highlight this I would like to tell you ACE that you talk more shi'te(IMO) than anyone on Newkitt.
Mick..I dont always agree with but he talks for ages,I've seen enough of his posts over the years to know that he talks sense and balls mixed in!

Its got nothing to do with personal agendas,i just think you talk shi'te!

it kills me hearing you say that ... 
back to bed now...

[Number 9]

Well I'm not surprised my post stirred it up a bit . Now lets see, what did I say that caused a problem. I said we got "a bit of the rub of the green in the competition" when we won the Champions League. I also said that we qualified for the Champions Leaguer after that first season because they "changed the rules to let us in".

Im sorry, but the second one is a statement of fact. If they hadn't changed the rules, we wouldn't have got in or am I missing something here? I actually think they were correct to change the rules, as the holders ought to have the right to defend the trophy. It doesn't though change the facts of the matter, if they hadn't changed the rules we wouldn't have been in because we came fifth in the league. I suppose us having our share of luck in the competition is not fact, it's merely my opinion but I'm absolutely staggered that someone would possibly try and deny it.

I've tried to keep my post fairly factual, including what we've won, league positions, transfer spends etc. I've simply given my opinion that based on what has been achived in the previous four seasons, I think that rafa is fortunate to be offered such a good deal IMHO. Are we still allowed to offer an opinion on the forum, or do we all just say "yep, good on you Rafa. Infact, they should have made it worth 50 million and offered him the job for life".

nothing was wrong with your post Mick.. its just that some people are more interested in replying to certain posters regardless of what the content of the post is rather than having any decent input in the discussion... he thought i was quoting someone else and saw it as a chance to have a dig at them too... had he realized it was you posting he wouldnt have made any sort of reference to your post in the first place...

To highlight this I would like to tell you ACE that you talk more shi'te(IMO) than anyone on Newkitt.
Mick..I dont always agree with but he talks for ages,I've seen enough of his posts over the years to know that he talks sense and balls mixed in!

Its got nothing to do with personal agendas,i just think you talk shi'te!

it kills me hearing you say that ... 
back to bed now...