Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

Fourth is still priority all things considered, and we're on course.

The fact that that is the priority sums up the season and why we need a change

Do we keep sacking managers every time they have a slump or a bad season? We keep doing that, then we'll never win the league, ever. No one else is going to come here and get as close to winning the title with this team as Benitez has so long as we're owned and ran by a pack of w@nkers, and you can quote me on that. What if we'd won the league last season, and then had the season we're having now? Still sack him?

[Sabre]

I say stay, because I've seen 4 seasons in which Liverpool accomplished the minimum requirements I want to see for them, and Rafa brought back the talk about the "top four" instead of the "top three".

This awful season reminds me of darker times, when I only could follow Liverpool in the newspaper and sometimes in TV and far from the top positions.

Evidently if next season this continues this way, Rafa will lose my trust probably. But trust isn't something you choose to have, rather, you just have it or you don't.

In fact, I'm well frustrated with some of the decissions of Rafa, specially how he's managing Aquilani, and the excesive trust on players that have lost my trust totally like Lucas and Babel.

That said, I'm well tired to discuss about it, meaning I accept all the opinions against Rafa and I understand them as long as it's not an insult. I have trust, but I don't have many reasoning to wield to defend my current position.

[LFC2007]

It only shows some fans underestimation of the club that they are happy with what we have had to watch this season.

Who is happy with what we've seen this season?

anyone imo who is making excuses.

I can't imagine anyone is pleased with the way this season has gone, tbh mate. Opinions only really diverge as to the causes of our 'disastrous' performance and the burden of responsibility for it; and how this season feeds into the bigger picture.

Before the season began reasonable expectation was a title challenge, reaching the 1/4 finals of the UCL, and going on a decent domestic cup run - or any combination that compensates appropriately. By any sensible standard then, anything 'a little below' that would have been 'a bit of a disappointment', while anything 'well below' that would have been a 'disaster'. The second scenario became reality.

For anyone other than the manager to take the lion's share of responsibility for that outcome there would have to have been a major change above his head, or an exceptional circumstance that none of us could have foreseen. Given the nature of the outcome, that change would have to have had a direct impact on Rafa's ability to manage the team. To keep it short; the owners are the only people who could have effected the change necessary for Rafa not to assume the lion's share of responsibility for what has happened this season - and that change would have to have related to the playing staff at his disposal since it is only there that said major change could take place.

There was a change, it involved the owners and it directly impacted on his ability to manage the team, BUT, was it enough of a change to effectively absolve Rafa of the Lion's share of the responsibility for the outcome of this season? The answer has to be no. He spent what he received, the squad is very similar to last season and therefore you would expect if not an improved or similar season to last, at least a decent one - a comfortable top four finish, in addition to a UCL quarter/semi, and a decent domestic cup run. 

The second set of questions relate to how this feeds into the bigger picture.

This season by itself cannot - by any reasonable standard - be sufficient to advocate the removal of the manager (those who demand instant success and the highest of standards will disagree). No, it has to be seen in the context of his six seasons at the club; what he arrived at and what he achieved under the circumstances and whether it suggests an acceptable level of progression? And the second part, linked, how likely is it that we can find a manager capable of achieving more with the resources currently available to the Rafa, and is likely to have available in the future? (assume minimal)

In answer to the first, I would point primarily to a general level of inconsistency in the league. One title challenge in six seasons with the resources available was definitely less than expected. To the second, probable and probable again, on the basis that Rafa's more recent and key signings haven't delivered - Babel, Keane, Lucas (IMO), Ngog, and arguably Aquilani (still an active judgment but not looking particularly good).

[metalhead]

Fourth is still priority all things considered, and we're on course.

The fact that that is the priority sums up the season and why we need a change

Do we keep sacking managers every time they have a slump or a bad season? We keep doing that, then we'll never win the league, ever. No one else is going to come here and get as close to winning the title with this team as Benitez has so long as we're owned and ran by a pack of w@nkers, and you can quote me on that. What if we'd won the league last season, and then had the season we're having now? Still sack him?

Its not about every time we need to sack someone because we were playing badly. This is Rafa's 5th season in charge, and frankly alot of people are just getting fed up. I used to be a Rafa supporter last season, the season after that, etc... This season I saw the same mistakes he is doing, and we aren't even going forward anymore, we are going way backward, our team is thinner, we don't have enough good players in our ranks and we made bad decisions in the transfer market again.

From here, you have to question our ambition, we were title challengers to almost winners, to a mediocre team who is fighting for 4th place this season.

I agree, that our owners are a bunch of c*nts, but that cannot be an excuse for doing so poorly in the transfer market last summer, we bought a 20m player who sits on the bench every game and the manager is scared to play him because the opposite team is too ''rough''. We bought players left, right and center then sold them after 6 months or a year at the club.

There is something wrong, the management is just poor.

[Dundalk]

Fourth is still priority all things considered, and we're on course.

The fact that that is the priority sums up the season and why we need a change

Do we keep sacking managers every time they have a slump or a bad season? We keep doing that, then we'll never win the league, ever. No one else is going to come here and get as close to winning the title with this team as Benitez has so long as we're owned and ran by a pack of w@nkers, and you can quote me on that. What if we'd won the league last season, and then had the season we're having now? Still sack him?

Maybe if someone else were to come in they wouldn't play 2 holding midfielders in every game, maybe we might attack teams like Liverpool Football Club should be doing.

Yes Rafa has been held back by the owners but that is no excuse for the football we are playing. I want the owners out as much as the next man but they cant be blamed for everything. Rafa picks the team and the team he is picking and the tactics he employs are not good enough for this football club.

Surely we cant be settling for this

We have won just two of their last 11 away matches in the Premier League, failing to score in seven

Not good enough.

[Dundalk]

And in terms of sacking the manger because we have a bad season Emerald its hardly Liverpool style. Its his fifth season and we are more like Houlliers Liverpool team at the end then the magical Valencia team we were going to become with this man at the helm

[metalhead]

I agree with Dundalk. enough is enough

[Ben Patrick]

if i thought this season was a break from the norm and we were likely to be a different proposition then i would be more willing to consider him staying.
But i think we are going backwards and alarmingly.
I think he hasnt changed things when he should have this season and the Aquilani situation has left everyone scratching their heads.

[Reg]

This seasons squad... stronger or weaker than 12 months ago?

[Benny The Noon]

Weaker in midfield but stronger at right back - think its neither stronger nor weaker overall tbh

[Ben Patrick]

This seasons squad... stronger or weaker than 12 months ago?

weaker

we lost sami, and got the greek, thats a downgrade.
we lost arbeloa but signed johnson, for me a clear upgrade.

but we lost alonso and signed a player that isnt anywhere near the same quality and even if he does end up better than what he has shown, he doesnt appear to be what we need at all.
The main deficiency was never sorted out - the strikers.

[teamleader1]

I really dont understand anyone wanting Rafa to stay.
we play our worst football ever and have a manager who thinks everything is fine.
His decision making is bizarre, we have in Ngog the most in-affective forward in the prem, yet he is our first choice cover for Torres (who is injury prone)
We play a very negative style week in week out, 2 defensive MF even against the dregs of the prem.
Rafa has proved beyond doubt this season that he hasn't got a clue what the prem is all about.
Ive said it before; ANY half decent manager would have us at least 10pts better off even with this substandard squad.
Rafas obsession with defending the 0-0 from the off is a recipe for disaster and WILL cost us 4th place.
Only for the fact that the yanks are only interested in bleeding the club dry and selling on what remains in a few seasons Rafa would have been well fkd off!

[Fowler_E7]

This seasons squad... stronger or weaker than 12 months ago?

weaker

we lost sami, and got the greek, thats a downgrade.
we lost arbeloa but signed johnson, for me a clear upgrade.

but we lost alonso and signed a player that isnt anywhere near the same quality and even if he does end up better than what he has shown, he doesnt appear to be what we need at all.
The main deficiency was never sorted out - the strikers.

what he said, except i would also add that we also lost Keane and now N'gog is our 2nd choice striker! Disgraceful situation

[zirgoz]

One of Stephen Hawking's Quote:

"When one's expectations are reduced to zero, one really appreciates everything one does have"

I'm realising it to be so true, however when I read another of his quotes I also do agree:

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

In short, for you pro Rafa out there... need i say more javascript:%20InstaSmilie()

we need a change!

[red_guy]

This seasons squad... stronger or weaker than 12 months ago?

weaker

we lost sami, and got the greek, thats a downgrade.
we lost arbeloa but signed johnson, for me a clear upgrade.

but we lost alonso and signed a player that isnt anywhere near the same quality and even if he does end up better than what he has shown, he doesnt appear to be what we need at all.
The main deficiency was never sorted out - the strikers.

what he said, except i would also add that we also lost Keane and now N'gog is our 2nd choice striker! Disgraceful situation

Agreed.