Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

There are similarities to some of the other threads in the sense that the usual boo-hoo merchants are crying that people are even deeming it necessary to consider the managers position. The simple fact of the matter is, any manager of Liverpool football club who has the team level on points with newly promoted Birmingham City at near enough the half way point of the Premiership, is going to get speculated about. 

People can blub, whinge and whine all they like about tradition, real fans, belief and all of that stuff and although I do have some sympathy with them I have my own version. Traditionally, we have challenged for honours and i have the belief that all real fans oughtn't to settle for being out of the League after ten matches and out of the Champions League after the group stages.

Real fans believe that we really ought to be traditionally a good team. That's my take on it.

I agree. We have to face what "progress" Rafa has really made. Even if you ignore the fact that we're struggling and getting embarrassed, Rafa has taken a regular top five club that wins the odd domestic and European trophy, and turned it into a................................... top five club that wins the odd domestic and European trophy. Sure Rafa finished 2nd, so did Houllier. Sure Rafa won a European trophy, so did Houllier. With the money they both spent the returns are at expectation level or BELOW.

That's the watered down comparison, the fact is Souness took a top two club and made it a top 6-8 club. Evans made us a top four club, finished third twice and fourth twice - one of those level on points with second. Souness and Evans were dispensed with, Evans somewhat harshly given his record was no worse than subsequent managers given the relative spending, and since then Houllier made us consistent top five as Rafa has mantained.

Both Houllier and Rafa made it look like we could win the league on one occaision, but we had spells that meant we finished 2nd but never really threatened the title come the business end of the season.

So are we happy with being a top four or five club with the occaisionial excitement because we might make a title challenge that disappears with the dust from santa's sleigh? I thought we were a big club with the highest standards and with that comes high expectations. People talk of the club's 'tradition' yet settle for second best.

Getting rid of Rafa entails risk, of course it does. The new manager might not even manage top five, but if there is a chance someone coming in will win the league then it is a gamble I am happy to take. At the moment there looks little chance Rafa will make the signings, changes, apply the tactics or inspire the team to the league title and it is such a small chance I think any incoming manager of any calibre has as much chance. To me if we don't finish first then there's little difference between second and seventh. Sure you get into the Champions League and lots of money associated, but the bottom line is noone from second to seventh gets a league title which is what we're aiming at.

The height of the bitters' ambitions in a season are :

- to beat us, preferably do the double
- finish above us so they can gloat
- finish as high as possible, in a European place if they can
- reach a cup final, maybe win a cup

I am sorry to say that mirrors too much what we are aiming at this season and overall could be listed as our current goals - finishing as high as possible, beating the bitters, getting into Europe and maybe winning a cup - even the Europa League. How bad is that? Maybe that comparison will wake a few people up, that we've sunk so far that the only minor difference between our ambitions and those across Stanley Park are in which European competition we are aiming at and they aren't deluded enough to think they'll win the league

good post

[Bobby Davro]

Bobby thinks Rafa should go he has done all he can I can't see a happy future with him in charge.

[chrisrafman]

Adios Amigo!! he has to go

[Bobby Davro]

Rafa go please hope he resignes and admits he can't carry on more then any thing.

[C-R]

go

[tubby]

go go go

[roberto green]

yeah cos if he goes whoever comes in will do so much better with no money

[NANNY RED]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

[Sir Roger]

yeah cos if he goes whoever comes in will do so much better with no money

Am I right in saying that all of our first team are international players who play for their country?
Surely we have enough quality not to be losing to the likes of sunderland and portsmouth?
Is buying new players and waiting to see if they fit in really the answer?

[tubby]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

Im fed up Nan. I know Rafa has been out of spending money too but there seems something stale about the team. I really think he has lost the dressing room that's why they are not giving 100% for him. If that is indeed the case then there is no way back for Rafa.

[NANNY RED]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

Im fed up Nan. I know Rafa has been out of spending money too but there seems something stale about the team. I really think he has lost the dressing room that's why they are not giving 100% for him. If that is indeed the case then there is no way back for Rafa.

Then if the team are not playing for him as you say mate the the fecking lot of them need shipping out, What about us, The not only mugging Rafa off there mugging us off an all, An its a fecking disgrace

[Sir Roger]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

Im fed up Nan. I know Rafa has been out of spending money too but there seems something stale about the team. I really think he has lost the dressing room that's why they are not giving 100% for him. If that is indeed the case then there is no way back for Rafa.

Then if the team are not playing for him as you say mate the the fecking lot of them need shipping out, What about us, The not only mugging Rafa off there mugging us off an all, An its a fecking disgrace

Most often in situations like this the supporters are the last thing on their minds.
Someone should remind them that we are actually the most important people in all of this and we have the most to lose if they dont get their sh'it together

[NANNY RED]

Someone was saying today that there having there Chrismas party this weekend, feck that off straight away

[lakes10]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

Im fed up Nan. I know Rafa has been out of spending money too but there seems something stale about the team. I really think he has lost the dressing room that's why they are not giving 100% for him. If that is indeed the case then there is no way back for Rafa.

Then if the team are not playing for him as you say mate the the fecking lot of them need shipping out, What about us, The not only mugging Rafa off there mugging us off an all, An its a fecking disgrace

Nan it might help if Rafa spent sometime talking to the players instead of just telling them what to do and not why they must do it, it might also help if he got to know the players a bit more and understand there minds more.

if he had he would not of lost them, it was easy to see today the players that care about the club and the ones that are just doing what they are told by Rafa, there are only 3 players in that team right now that are playing for the shirt.

[tubby]

go go go

BAV

An Roberto i agaree with you

Bav  

Im fed up Nan. I know Rafa has been out of spending money too but there seems something stale about the team. I really think he has lost the dressing room that's why they are not giving 100% for him. If that is indeed the case then there is no way back for Rafa.

Then if the team are not playing for him as you say mate the the fecking lot of them need shipping out, What about us, The not only mugging Rafa off there mugging us off an all, An its a fecking disgrace

There are just so many negative factors all going on at the same time. The biggest one being off the pitch. Last season it didn't really affect us as we had one of our best seasons in recent years but thsi summer with no spend really hurt us on the pitch. It was always going to be a risk to go into this season ill equipped as we were.

I hate to keep dragging takeover talk in other threads but none of this is ever going to be resolved until the ownership situation is rectified. If it can be that is....