Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

If yesterdays reports are true from them in the know Gillet has to sell a.s.a.p GREAT.

Hicks has untill June. 

So why doesnt Rafa wait? Why is he in the Hicks camp? Because Hicks is the last person I would be getting in bed with.

[Emerald Red]

If yesterdays reports are true from them in the know Gillet has to sell a.s.a.p GREAT.

Hicks has untill June. 

So why doesnt Rafa wait? Why is he in the Hicks camp? Because Hicks is the last person I would be getting in bed with.

It's all politics, Cigs. The old saying of keep your friends close, but your enemy closer is an apt expression.

[bigmick]

As far as the academy is concerned, I'm very much in favour of there being continuity there irrespective of and independant of the manager. There doesn't seem a lot of point in allowing a manager to build up his influence with 12 and 14 year old kids when there is every chance (indeed it's almost a certainty) that he won't be around even to the point where they sign their first professional forms.

We have signed lots of youngsters and paid good money for lots of youngsters while Rafa has been the manager. I presume he bought those or at least decided he wanted them (don't tell me it was Parry again) and fairly soon, a few of those should be old enough to start breaking into the reserves at least. Some of them have had good reports about them, so I'm lost as to how much control he wants. I'm fully prepared to believe that we have the wrong man in charge with the kids, but does Rafa want to do absolutely everything himself?

Why not just bite the bullet, make Dario Gradi an offer he can't refuse and solve the problem for the next 15 years at least. A proven player finder and an absolutely excellent coach.

[Leonmc0708]

As far as the academy is concerned, I'm very much in favour of there being continuity there irrespective of and independant of the manager. There doesn't seem a lot of point in allowing a manager to build up his influence with 12 and 14 year old kids when there is every chance (indeed it's almost a certainty) that he won't be around even to the point where they sign their first professional forms.

We have signed lots of youngsters and paid good money for lots of youngsters while Rafa has been the manager. I presume he bought those or at least decided he wanted them (don't tell me it was Parry again) and fairly soon, a few of those should be old enough to start breaking into the reserves at least. Some of them have had good reports about them, so I'm lost as to how much control he wants. I'm fully prepared to believe that we have the wrong man in charge with the kids, but does Rafa want to do absolutely everything himself?

Why not just bite the bullet, make Dario Gradi an offer he can't refuse and solve the problem for the next 15 years at least. A proven player finder and an absolutely excellent coach.

God forbid.

We might end up like Arsnela with hte seemingly endless stream of youth products - or even worse like United with six who come through at the same time and win the fuc.king treble.

[account deleted by request]

So what the hell would be the point in having a Chief Executive officer then. Of course the manager has to answer to the CEO, that's how it works in the real world Rafa!!
If he goes due to this then good because if these reports are true then he's being a pr1ck. His transfers are very hit and miss so to give him 100% control could be a disaster!

BTW I hope this is being blown out of proportion, I want him to stay until the end of this season at least.

And you know this because you've worked as top tier manager for the likes of Barcalona and Ac Milan, right? Managers at those clubs have carte blanch over football matters, as does Ferguson at OT. A top class manager should NEVER have to listen to a chairman who knows sweet d*ck all about footballing matters ever. All they have to do is nod their heads and cough up the coin and let the man get on with what he was employed to do.

And you know this because you've worked as top tier manager for the likes of Barcalona and Ac Milan, right? 

That's b0llocks mate, I havent worked as a top tier manager but I know that at both Milan and Barcelona that the managers (or COACHES AS THEY ARE KNOWN) do not have the control over transfers.

No, but you know that they should have absolute control over the footballing matters rather than incompetent CEO's who haven't a clue. You've been supporting us long enough S@int to know Parry and co. have been f*cking us over for years when it comes to important transfer deals. You only need to look at Mourinho's case at Chelsea and the Shevshenko debacle. I know that in Spain it is mostly the fans that have the say, whereas Italian football has taken a slump due to corrupt boards. I think Rafa is right in what he wants, mate. Not bollox at all.

But thats not what you said is it mate 

I don't agree with you anyway Emerald, I think Parry should go, but I still believe it would be in LIVERPOOL's best interest to still have checks and balances over transfers with someone like Dalglish with the final say.

TBH I am getting sick and tired of Rafa threatening to take his ball home every time he has a problem (even when he gets "friends" to do it on his behalf) FFS could you ever imagine Paisley OR ANY of our previous managers disrupting the season like this, arguing over their personal contracts. Paisley had never even HAD a contract in all the years he had been at Liverpool until he had been the manager for a while. 

Rafa is in bed with Hicks in my opinion, they are trying to apply pressure to get Parry out, so Hicks can take over the board room and control of the club. While I want to see Parry out, I do NOT want to see Hicks in total control of the club.

Those are my thoughts on this LATEST distraction from our season.

Fair enough, S@int. But could you honestly see Mourinho coming in and being a 'yes' man also? It's one thing having someone like Dalglish, who has the club at heart, having the final word on signings. I'd have no qualms with that, and you're absolutely right. But to have Parry, Hicks and GG having the final word, well, that's a worry IMO. Always has been. I'd rather have Rafa get his way and see if he really can transform our club with more influence over footballing matters, than have Coco the clown and two American d*ckheads be in total control. I disagree with what you said about Rafa being in bed with Hicks at the moment. Hicks and GG simply don't have a clue about running a football club. I think if anything else, they are more worried about Rafa leaving, which would leave them two scrambling about to try and find a better replacement, which IMO at the moment, there is none. You could imagine a scenario where they'd have to replace Benitez with a second rate manager, watch the performances drop, our CL form dwindle, and have the value of the club dip as a result. I think Benitez knows he has Hicks under his thumb and he's playing on it. It is perhaps arrogance on his behalf and it could backfire in his face, but time will tell. I think Rafa will get what he wants. But people, especially certain fans, should be careful what they wish for. Benitez walking over something like this would be a disaster for this club IMO.

I don't think its necessarily being a yes man....... under the right circumstances. Rafa and Parry don't seem capable of working together (whoever is a fault)and as its much easier to find a new CEO or at least a director of football than it is to find a new manager, I think Parry will either have to move sideways or out. BUT, I still think we need someone overseeing the manager and making sure that decisions are made for the good of LIVERPOOL both for now and for the future.

I think to place all your eggs in one basket ,even if its Rafa thats holding it is very risky.

I really hope that this can be sorted, but I would rather see Rafa OR ANY MANAGER walk rather than risk the future of the club.

As for Hicks and Rafa being a little too close for comfort, no one knows the truth, but it does make me uneasy to see them stroking each other in the papers.

I do believe that Rafa has been opportunistic over all of this.

[bigmick]

As far as the academy is concerned, I'm very much in favour of there being continuity there irrespective of and independant of the manager. There doesn't seem a lot of point in allowing a manager to build up his influence with 12 and 14 year old kids when there is every chance (indeed it's almost a certainty) that he won't be around even to the point where they sign their first professional forms.

We have signed lots of youngsters and paid good money for lots of youngsters while Rafa has been the manager. I presume he bought those or at least decided he wanted them (don't tell me it was Parry again) and fairly soon, a few of those should be old enough to start breaking into the reserves at least. Some of them have had good reports about them, so I'm lost as to how much control he wants. I'm fully prepared to believe that we have the wrong man in charge with the kids, but does Rafa want to do absolutely everything himself?

Why not just bite the bullet, make Dario Gradi an offer he can't refuse and solve the problem for the next 15 years at least. A proven player finder and an absolutely excellent coach.

God forbid.

We might end up like Arsnela with hte seemingly endless stream of youth products - or even worse like United with six who come through at the same time and win the fuc.king treble.

So you like the Dario Gradi idea? It's a belter if I do say so meself 

[account deleted by request]

There's no real reason which I can see to bring the negotiations into the public eye in the first place. In all honesty it's all a total load of nonsense anyway. Even if we put into the contract that yes from now on Rafa can buy as many Dossena's as he wants, when it actually comes down to it next season if the board or CEO don't fancy a player, they'll just say we can't afford it. Total load of nonsense the whole thing. If the manager was to walk over such an issue, then to my mind feck him he can go.

Thats just one of the issues.

He also wants control over the Academy.

I don't agree with Rafa having control of the accademy either mate, I don't think someone like Parry should be in charge, but neither do I think the manager should be either. Which again is where I see someone like Dalglish could play an important role.

Certainly something needs to be done as the present system with Rafa and the Accademy at loggerheads can only be damaging.

I was reading about the top 50 "young prospects" the other day, not one from Liverpool made the list (2 from Everton).

Get your head out of your @rse lad.

Dalglish IS NOT the answer to every conundrum at this club.

Time to get with the program.

Our Academy is not producing. Whether the talent is out there or not is another matter but what is clear is that the system needs to change and I would give Rafa the chance to do it.

He learnt his trade at Real Madrid as a coach and their youth system has produced numerous players over the years who have played in top flight and someone who is close to the situation recently told me over 140.

Our system has produced precious little approx 40 professionals over the years and most of them in the lower divisions. Our most recent appointment 2007 was Piet Hamberg who I am led to believe was a Parry appointment/recommendation. Since then most insiders feel it has gone from bad to worse, so why not let someone who knows a little bit about football sort it out rather than beauracrats and accountants.

What I keep on hearing is that the Academy always seems to have a very promising Under 14's and this goes on year after year but they never progress. Even the ones who do make it to Melwood are either injury prone due to their lack of fitness or lack that extra competitive edge to break through.

Real Madrid have several fitness coaches for their set up one for every two age groups and we only have one for the whole academy. Its no use people saying Rafa doesn't give the local youngsters a chance he just doesn't think they are good enough, but with UEFA quotas on the horizon don't you think he would welcome a Gerrard or a Carragher.

I remember being encouraged when Darby,Spearing and Kelly came on against PSV but whether they will become regulars only time will tell. I know from personal experience that two really promising lads moved from Liverpool to Everton a couple of years ago when they were Under 12's and are now outstanding prospects at Under 14 level.

Something is wrong and it needs sorting now and not by accountants!

Yeah great idea until Rafa gets the hump yet again and fks off leaving the whole system to be changed yet again by the new manager coming in.

The whole idea of having the academy seperate from the manager is for continuity, you wont get continuity if every manager that comes in has his own ideas and changes everything. You also wont get continuity if Rafa continues to abuse the system like he has done over the past 18months either.

[Ciggy]

Rafa needs to concentrate on how to score a goal against the likes of Stoke and not be worrying about The Academy he has signed loads of kids anyway while local kids have been snubbed in favour of the foreign imports.

That wont change even if he gets controll over it.

I dont expect a load of scousers to be coming through the ranks you find one or two gems every decade we have one Adam Pepper, Gosling and Baxter who play for Everton may be the other two, time will tell but they wont be staying at Everton thats for certain.

[account deleted by request]

Because Hicks is the last person I would be getting in bed with.

  I am no longer last 

[Ciggy]

Because Hicks is the last person I would be getting in bed with.

  I am no longer last 

You would be the first lar

[Ciggy]

When he left Valencia :"Despite this success, Benítez fell out with Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club's director of sport, over control of new signings and the club's failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted".

History repeating itself here or what?

[Number 9]

When he left Valencia :"Despite this success, Benítez fell out with Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club's director of sport, over control of new signings and the club's failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted".

History repeating itself here or what?

rafa fell out with Jesus...  
Jesus singing YNWA with the beard in life of brian would be cool

[account deleted by request]

When he left Valencia :"Despite this success, Benítez fell out with Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club's director of sport, over control of new signings and the club's failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted".

History repeating itself here or what?

rafa fell out with Jesus...  
Jesus singing YNWA with the beard in life of brian would be cool

Rafa wanted more control of new signings and the youth disciples, although Rafa wanted a bigger squad he was not at fault for the signing of Judas, that was down to Rick Parry. 

[Number 9]

When he left Valencia :"Despite this success, Benítez fell out with Jesus Garcia Pitarch, the club's director of sport, over control of new signings and the club's failure to reinforce the squad with the players he wanted".

History repeating itself here or what?

rafa fell out with Jesus...  
Jesus singing YNWA with the beard in life of brian would be cool

Rafa wanted more control of new signings and the youth disciples, although Rafa wanted a bigger squad he was not at fault for the signing of Judas, that was down to Rick Parry. 

lol why am i hearing"always look on the bright side of life"

[lakes10]

So it looks like Rafa been talking to NOW.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport....et.html


RAFA BENITEZ has vowed not to walk away from Anfield — IF Liverpool’s owners back down on his contract demands.

The Kop boss says he will revive talks with Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr. But he has warned there will be no compromise on his request for the final say on how to spend the club’s transfer budget.


Benitez said: “We will see what happens when Tom Hicks comes next month. Maybe we will talk again in the future. When the owners offered me a contract I said we needed to do it quickly as I wanted no distractions.


“We have been talking for two months and they know my idea. If we can’t progress, we finish the conversations.


“We were close. I have no problem talking with them and anyone else at the club. The phone still works both ways, but I will try to concentrate on the football.



Rafa Benitez on Liverpool v Everton

“I’m linked with a lot of teams but I guarantee I’m focused on winning trophies for Liverpool. I want to stay at Liverpool for a long time. I’m signing young players because I’m thinking about the future. I’ve told the owners what I want and that’s it.”



HEAD TO HEAD - chief executive Rick Parry (left) and Rafa Benitez
Benitez insists a personality clash with chief executive Rick Parry is not the problem.


He added: “I don’t have a bad relationship with the owners and my relationship with Rick is good. I don’t want 100 per cent control, I just want to work with the budget I have. I have no personal problem with Rick or any other chief executive.

“This is about how I can manage the club in the best way for the future. If you have £20m, you can spend £5m on four players or £20m on one player. Who knows the right value? The manager.

Vigour

“If I have one chief executive or 20 chief executives, it’s not the point. The manager must decide how the money is spent.”


Benitez’s unrest stems from the Gareth Barry saga last year, when the club refused to splash £18m for the Villa man. The Spanish boss was keen to press ahead but Reds chiefs committed £20m on another target, Robbie Keane.


Benitez believes Barry was not pursued by Parry with the same vigour as Keane, a charge furiously denied by Liverpool.


The club agreed not to buy Barry and sell Xabi Alonso at a loss. When Peter Crouch was sold but Alonso’s move to Juventus broke down, the Liverpool board called off talks for Barry and bought Keane.


Benitez argues this is a decision he alone should have taken. On the day the Keane deal went through, the manager even made a last-ditch effort to block it until after Barry was signed.

Better

Liverpool’s player of the year Alonso could have spent most of the season on the bench or joined Arsenal on the cheap.


But Benitez said: “Xabi is playing better this season but can you guarantee Gareth wouldn’t have been good for us? I signed Xabi, play him nearly every week and didn’t sell him. I know how the players feel.”


If Benitez gets his way, Parry’s position will become untenable. Benitez hopes an alliance with Hicks will tip the balance his way, with Hicks eyeing a fresh bid to buy-out Gillett and take full control.


But Sport of the World can reveal Benitez’s stance is risking dressing-room unrest, with many stars furious at the timing of the latest feud.


The players want contract talks to be delayed until the end of the season so the focus is on their title challenge. Claims of a mass exodus if Benitez leaves have been angrily dismissed by the majority of players.