Rafa faithometer - The return

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Rafa faithometer - The return

1. doing an extremely good job
9
10%
1. doing a very good job
28
31%
2. doing an average job
25
28%
3. doing a poor job
9
10%
4. doing a very poor job
4
4%
5. sack him now!
6
7%
6. other please vote first then state reasons in your post
8
9%
 
Total votes : 89

Postby fivecups » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:33 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa's part of the furniture now, like Wenger is to Arsenal, Fergie is to Man U, it would be hard to imagine our club with out him.

Anyone thinking or hoping that he will be leaving anytime soon needs to get them thoughts out of their head.

He wont be going anywhere for a very long time.

I agree with that totally. For one thing we couldn't afford to get rid even if we wanted to. He's at Liverpool for another three years at least I think, even if we don't actually win anything.

My guess is though that this season we will win something. I don't think it will be the league, but my guess is that it will be either the FA Cup or the Carling Cup.

We are certainly due a decent run in one of the domestic cups as our results over the last 3 years have been terrible.

League cup

2006/7 - 5th round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 5 games in 3 years

FA CUP

2006/7 - 3rd round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 3 games in 3 years, with all 3 wins against lower division sides (Luton after a replay, Havant after going behind twice, Preston)

Rafas priorities are:

Champions league
Qualifying for champions league
Premiere league
Fa cup
Carling cup

He's said his priority this season is the Premier League.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:58 pm

Two seasons ago and two seasons on from our CL triumph I would of told most people that I thought Rafa was doing an okay job. This was during a time when 'mass' rotation and its debacles were in full flow. We never kicked on from that CL win and I was hoping that would of been the foundation of a new trophy win era. This never eventuated and it was easy (however true they were) to air frustrations about the team not kicking on during this time.

Now though, (2009) I don't know whether I have become accustomed to the lack of trophies we've not won in Rafa's era, thus settling for second best so to speak. Or the fact that I now have a maybe more balanced view of just how hard Rafa's task is to get his team to where he wants it to be. Before I go on I was very quick in days gone by to put a blanket over the 'money' excuse, for various reasons, rotation being one   .

However it is evident that Rafa's task of managing a Liverpool team to the pinnacle of English football and dominating Europe to a certain extent has become a very arduous job in recent and present times. I still don't believe Rafa himself helped the team out with 'silly' selections and changes yesteryear. Thats now in the past and generally this issue has been sorted out.

Our two American owners though have undoubtedly made Rafa's job a whole lot harder. A lack of support, funds etc have made his job an uphill task in correlation with challenging the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and now Man.C. I do not like to use this 'excuse' as the reason why I think Rafa is now doing a good job in 2009. I'd prefer to discuss the footballing side of our pro's and con's to combat our Premier league drought. Unfortunately though in the last couple of seasons as far as the Americans are concerned they have been a massive burden on Rafa's roll at the club. One that can not be brushed away as a weak pity excuse as to why our club are not challenging for top honours (or winning them shall I say).

Yes he did pay 18 million for Johnson who many chuffed at the price, myself included. But this particular deal was haggled with because Pompey still owed us money for Crouch I believe. We didn't literally hand over the 18M in cash to them and we needed IMHO a right back like Johnson. Rafa sold Alonso for 30M buys Aquallian (sp) for 20M or whatever, where is the rest of the money from the Alonso sale to bolster the squad? The Americans have pulled the purse strings shut, because they never had a purse big enough to efficiently run LFC with in the first place. And as an impact of that has made Rafa's job that more arduous when comparing the likes of our arrivals.

Currently I think Rafa is doing a good job in the prediciment he is currently in. Although when money was not so tight three or four years ago I don't think he took the opportunity in the transfer market at that time and with his team selections to be as productive as I'd of liked. This and rotation had me thinking 'we're never gonna win the league with this fella'. Now though when money is tight I see it being even harder and it may not look as though 'we're ever gonna win the league with this fella' unless he gets the support finacially from our current owners he requires in putting LFC back on fecking perch.

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Postby maguskwt » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:10 pm

s@int wrote:Two seasons ago and two seasons on from our CL triumph I would of told most people that I thought Rafa was doing an okay job. This was during a time when 'mass' rotation and its debacles were in full flow. We never kicked on from that CL win and I was hoping that would of been the foundation of a new trophy win era. This never eventuated and it was easy (however true they were) to air frustrations about the team not kicking on during this time.

Now though, (2009) I don't know whether I have become accustomed to the lack of trophies we've not won in Rafa's era, thus settling for second best so to speak. Or the fact that I now have a maybe more balanced view of just how hard Rafa's task is to get his team to where he wants it to be. Before I go on I was very quick in days gone by to put a blanket over the 'money' excuse, for various reasons, rotation being one   .

However it is evident that Rafa's task of managing a Liverpool team to the pinnacle of English football and dominating Europe to a certain extent has become a very arduous job in recent and present times. I still don't believe Rafa himself helped the team out with 'silly' selections and changes yesteryear. Thats now in the past and generally this issue has been sorted out.

Our two American owners though have undoubtedly made Rafa's job a whole lot harder. A lack of support, funds etc have made his job an uphill task in correlation with challenging the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and now Man.C. I do not like to use this 'excuse' as the reason why I think Rafa is now doing a good job in 2009. I'd prefer to discuss the footballing side of our pro's and con's to combat our Premier league drought. Unfortunately though in the last couple of seasons as far as the Americans are concerned they have been a massive burden on Rafa's roll at the club. One that can not be brushed away as a weak pity excuse as to why our club are not challenging for top honours (or winning them shall I say).

Yes he did pay 18 million for Johnson who many chuffed at the price, myself included. But this particular deal was haggled with because Pompey still owed us money for Crouch I believe. We didn't literally hand over the 18M in cash to them and we needed IMHO a right back like Johnson. Rafa sold Alonso for 30M buys Aquallian (sp) for 20M or whatever, where is the rest of the money from the Alonso sale to bolster the squad? The Americans have pulled the purse strings shut, because they never had a purse big enough to efficiently run LFC with in the first place. And as an impact of that has made Rafa's job that more arduous when comparing the likes of our arrivals.

Currently I think Rafa is doing a good job in the prediciment he is currently in. Although when money was not so tight three or four years ago I don't think he took the opportunity in the transfer market at that time and with his team selections to be as productive as I'd of liked. This and rotation had me thinking 'we're never gonna win the league with this fella'. Now though when money is tight I see it being even harder and it may not look as though 'we're ever gonna win the league with this fella' unless he gets the support finacially from our current owners he requires in putting LFC back on fecking perch.

Posted on behalf of a mate

good and fair post...

IMO Rafa made mistakes in buying Babel and Dossena... instead of Babel we should've gone for Van der vaart or Shneijder or Huntelaar. The rest of the unsuccessful transfers though Rafa has shipped them out immediately. Hopefully this year both Johnson and Aquilani will be successes. Johnson already seems to be a success... that leaves Aquilani. When you get a transfer season wrong it really sets back the team's improvement just like when Houllier bought the two senagalese and also gambled on the two french youngsters. It seems though now the team has recovered from these set backs and improving once again as shown in our title challenge last season. The thing that's holding back the team now is the owners' lack of support in building on the improvement we did last season...
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Postby Dazzer » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:13 pm

Greavesie wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5? :angry:

I did just to get angry little goblins like your self crazy mad.  :laugh:

Of course I don't think he should be sacked but number 5 was looking so lonely.  :eyebrow

people like this render these polls a little pointless

Do you not feel this poll is pointless any ways ?

Rafa is our manager thats the bottom line it don't matter what we think he is the man at the moment lets just support him and stop fooling around with polls if we think he is doing ok or not.  :idea
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Postby maguskwt » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:16 pm

Dazzer wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5? :angry:

I did just to get angry little goblins like your self crazy mad.  :laugh:

Of course I don't think he should be sacked but number 5 was looking so lonely.  :eyebrow

people like this render these polls a little pointless

Do you not feel this poll is pointless any ways ?

Rafa is our manager thats the bottom line it don't matter what we think he is the man at the moment lets just support him and stop fooling around with polls if we think he is doing ok or not.  :idea

well why is it pointless? we wanna find out about the popular consensus...
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Postby Dazzer » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:34 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Okay, who voted for 5? :angry:

I did just to get angry little goblins like your self crazy mad.  :laugh:

Of course I don't think he should be sacked but number 5 was looking so lonely.  :eyebrow

people like this render these polls a little pointless

Do you not feel this poll is pointless any ways ?

Rafa is our manager thats the bottom line it don't matter what we think he is the man at the moment lets just support him and stop fooling around with polls if we think he is doing ok or not.  :idea

well why is it pointless? we wanna find out about the popular consensus...

Well it might have got more from me if the poll was set up a little better.It kinda failed before it started first there is 2 1.s and then there isn't much option after that better to start just a post and have a chat about what every one thinks.Polls are misleading any ways since you can only gives choices within a set of parameters so you never get the right outcome.

In fact the poll would have been better just like this.

Is rafa doing good job atm
1. yes
2. no
please gives reasons.....


EDIT: I think he is doing a good job with the resources he has atm.Will we win the prem ? I hope so but doubt it this year.But you never know stranger things have happened in football.
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Postby Sir Roger » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:52 am

s@int wrote:Two seasons ago and two seasons on from our CL triumph I would of told most people that I thought Rafa was doing an okay job. This was during a time when 'mass' rotation and its debacles were in full flow. We never kicked on from that CL win and I was hoping that would of been the foundation of a new trophy win era. This never eventuated and it was easy (however true they were) to air frustrations about the team not kicking on during this time.

Now though, (2009) I don't know whether I have become accustomed to the lack of trophies we've not won in Rafa's era, thus settling for second best so to speak. Or the fact that I now have a maybe more balanced view of just how hard Rafa's task is to get his team to where he wants it to be. Before I go on I was very quick in days gone by to put a blanket over the 'money' excuse, for various reasons, rotation being one   .

However it is evident that Rafa's task of managing a Liverpool team to the pinnacle of English football and dominating Europe to a certain extent has become a very arduous job in recent and present times. I still don't believe Rafa himself helped the team out with 'silly' selections and changes yesteryear. Thats now in the past and generally this issue has been sorted out.

Our two American owners though have undoubtedly made Rafa's job a whole lot harder. A lack of support, funds etc have made his job an uphill task in correlation with challenging the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and now Man.C. I do not like to use this 'excuse' as the reason why I think Rafa is now doing a good job in 2009. I'd prefer to discuss the footballing side of our pro's and con's to combat our Premier league drought. Unfortunately though in the last couple of seasons as far as the Americans are concerned they have been a massive burden on Rafa's roll at the club. One that can not be brushed away as a weak pity excuse as to why our club are not challenging for top honours (or winning them shall I say).

Yes he did pay 18 million for Johnson who many chuffed at the price, myself included. But this particular deal was haggled with because Pompey still owed us money for Crouch I believe. We didn't literally hand over the 18M in cash to them and we needed IMHO a right back like Johnson. Rafa sold Alonso for 30M buys Aquallian (sp) for 20M or whatever, where is the rest of the money from the Alonso sale to bolster the squad? The Americans have pulled the purse strings shut, because they never had a purse big enough to efficiently run LFC with in the first place. And as an impact of that has made Rafa's job that more arduous when comparing the likes of our arrivals.

Currently I think Rafa is doing a good job in the prediciment he is currently in. Although when money was not so tight three or four years ago I don't think he took the opportunity in the transfer market at that time and with his team selections to be as productive as I'd of liked. This and rotation had me thinking 'we're never gonna win the league with this fella'. Now though when money is tight I see it being even harder and it may not look as though 'we're ever gonna win the league with this fella' unless he gets the support finacially from our current owners he requires in putting LFC back on fecking perch.

Posted on behalf of a mate

I dont know whether Rafa should be allowed endless wads of money to buy more and more often useless players. How many has he bought and sold? Over 30 isnt it? And he still wants to bring more in and offload others? Shouldnt he have got it right by now? Are we in a better position squad wise than say three years ago? If so why have we still got Voronin and dossena?
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Postby Octsky » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:08 pm

Well, we have lost twice this season coming to 8-9 games, but Mancs nearly lost to Sunderland yst, bring their bad result to one lost (Burnley) and a draw (Sunderland). So I felt Rafa did ok.

Coming to SB against Chels will be our big test, and they say big teams dont lose twice in a row, so i be watching how are we going to react.

Again, i wish Rafa wont be so stubborn, evidently showing our continuous joke at set-pieces.
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Postby Sir Roger » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:33 am

Octsky wrote:Well, we have lost twice this season coming to 8-9 games, but Mancs nearly lost to Sunderland yst, bring their bad result to one lost (Burnley) and a draw (Sunderland). So I felt Rafa did ok.

Coming to SB against Chels will be our big test, and they say big teams dont lose twice in a row, so i be watching how are we going to react.

Again, i wish Rafa wont be so stubborn, evidently showing our continuous joke at set-pieces.

Rafa must be rubbing his hands with glee at not conceding from set pieces for a change. Two 'round the back and tap ins' instead. Manna from heaven...
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Postby tubby » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:02 am

:laugh:
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Postby Owzat » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:08 pm

GYBS wrote:Is that average when the CL runs are brought into question ?!? what would you rate him if you didnt include the CL runs ?!

The CL is a curse, a distraction that we 'have' to reach the latter stages in order to be seen as a success but in truth when we do well in the CL it is often at the expense of league performance

04/05 CL Winners, 5th in the league (58 points)
06/07 CL Runners-Up, 3rd in the league (68 points, +2 GD ahead of 4th)
07/08 CL Semi-Finalists, 4th in the league (76 points)
08/09 CL Quarter-Finalists, 2nd in the league (86 points)
05/06 CL Last Sixteen, 3rd in the league (82 points)

Our best two league campaigns under Rafa were our worst two CL campaigns. While the CL is in its current format I can't see Rafa coping with it and winning the league, it just festers too long.

As for Rafa's tied hands re finances - yeah right! Poor sod only had £37.5m to spend, went out and bought two 'bargains'. Truth is the side we had last season went 10 unbeaten and topped the league at the start and then won 10 out of the last 11 league games at the end, problem is the manager couldn't mastermind the middle section and so we lost it - I seriously cannot see him masterminding enough sections to be able to win the league, there will always be a poor start, middle or run-in with him
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Postby tubby » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:11 pm

Unfortunatley with our squad being so thin we can only really compete for 1 or the other and I think we are probabaly suited more to Europe. I don't think we can win the league with our current squad but I do think we have a squad capable of winning in Europe again this year. As much as id prefer the league we don't have the strength in depth for that yet.
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Postby tubby » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:12 pm

Owzat wrote:
GYBS wrote:Is that average when the CL runs are brought into question ?!? what would you rate him if you didnt include the CL runs ?!

The CL is a curse, a distraction that we 'have' to reach the latter stages in order to be seen as a success but in truth when we do well in the CL it is often at the expense of league performance

04/05 CL Winners, 5th in the league (58 points)
06/07 CL Runners-Up, 3rd in the league (68 points, +2 GD ahead of 4th)
07/08 CL Semi-Finalists, 4th in the league (76 points)
08/09 CL Quarter-Finalists, 2nd in the league (86 points)
05/06 CL Last Sixteen, 3rd in the league (82 points)

Our best two league campaigns under Rafa were our worst two CL campaigns. While the CL is in its current format I can't see Rafa coping with it and winning the league, it just festers too long.

As for Rafa's tied hands re finances - yeah right! Poor sod only had £37.5m to spend, went out and bought two 'bargains'. Truth is the side we had last season went 10 unbeaten and topped the league at the start and then won 10 out of the last 11 league games at the end, problem is the manager couldn't mastermind the middle section and so we lost it - I seriously cannot see him masterminding enough sections to be able to win the league, there will always be a poor start, middle or run-in with him

All he has done is replaced Arby and Xabi. We needed to do that and more but he was not able to so you can leave the poor sod jibes at the door thanks.

Rafa is being asked to compete on all fronts with only part of the required budget. But in truth I think the owners would be happy with a 3rd place finish and a possible run to the final in Europe.
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Postby heimdall » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:24 pm

bavlondon wrote:He is one of the best managers in the world. If he left us the best clubs in Europe would  be in a race for his services. It's only down to those lying sneaky shyster owners that he hasn't been given what he needs to win the league. I just hope in the next few years he gets that extra bit he needs as our squad is so thin beyond the first 11.

Sorry but why is he one of the best again?? Is it in terms of what he's won or in terms of potential to win things if he gets a blank cheque from some Arab?

I think he's doing a :censored: job at the moment, two games on the bounce where he gets it wrong tactically is not good. I mean what the feck was the deal with playing Aurelio and Lucas in CM???

A few games ago we were flying and scoring goals for fun whilst we had Stevie in the middle but somehow that wasn't good enough for the best manager in the world, he just had too tinker and then refuse to put his hand up when he fecked it up.

In fact has Rafa ever admitted to a mistake, no that might dent his Spanish ego, much easier to blame it on the players  :no

I'm fed up now, yet another season gone, unless Aquaman ever gets fits and is stunningly good. At the moment we have more or less all our key players fit and we are still being hammered by every good team we meet, sorry if I appear negative but it's not looking good.

The only reason I didn't vote for sacking him now is because we can't afford to.
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Postby heimdall » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:25 pm

fivecups wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
s@int wrote:
bigmick wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Rafa's part of the furniture now, like Wenger is to Arsenal, Fergie is to Man U, it would be hard to imagine our club with out him.

Anyone thinking or hoping that he will be leaving anytime soon needs to get them thoughts out of their head.

He wont be going anywhere for a very long time.

I agree with that totally. For one thing we couldn't afford to get rid even if we wanted to. He's at Liverpool for another three years at least I think, even if we don't actually win anything.

My guess is though that this season we will win something. I don't think it will be the league, but my guess is that it will be either the FA Cup or the Carling Cup.

We are certainly due a decent run in one of the domestic cups as our results over the last 3 years have been terrible.

League cup

2006/7 - 5th round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 5 games in 3 years

FA CUP

2006/7 - 3rd round
2007/8 - 5th round
2008/9 - 4th round

won only 3 games in 3 years, with all 3 wins against lower division sides (Luton after a replay, Havant after going behind twice, Preston)

Rafas priorities are:

Champions league
Qualifying for champions league
Premiere league
Fa cup
Carling cup

He's said his priority this season is the Premier League.

If that is true then how the feck can people be voting for doing an extremely good job when we have lost 3 out of 8 games???
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