Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

TBPH it doesn't really matter about your personality if you have success. If you can do that, the players will buy into it and follow you because they believe in you.

The problem we are going to run into before too long if we aren't careful is that the players will begin to doubt the course we are on. Fall out of the title race early this time and the likes of Carragher and Gerrard might just start asking if they're ever going to win it under Rafa. If the wheels wobble they'll fall off quickly.

See we can't have it both ways. If lastr season wasn't a "golden opportunity" and Chelsea/Arsenal and Man Utd were just as strong if not stronger than usual, and if it wasn't a "flash in the pan" and we didn't actually "get lucky", then there really is no reason why we shouldn't show progression.

I know people will say 'but we sold Alonso and didn't spend any money" but Man Utd sold Ronaldo and lost Tevez, Arsenal sold Emmanuel Adebayor and Koulo Toure. Neither club actually laid out as much money in buying replacements as we did in Johnson and Aquilani. Chelsea bought one player who has hardly figured.

The time is approaching where the players will either believe in the project or not. Rafa's personality won't have any influence over that, results will.

[Octsky]

The best manager i've known atm is Arsene Wenger, his eye for talent is uncanny. His portfolio of players who became superachievers after arriving from small clubs are uncountable. Naming a few: Henry, Anelka, Petit, Viera, Bergkamp, Frabagas etc etc.

But even a top manager like him has his crazy moments like no building on the momentum on the invincibles of '04 and choosing to rebuild the team based on youth presently.
So for better or worst, unless we can find a better manager than Rafa which is very few atm (given the availability and numerous considerations), we'll have to stick to Rafa.

[Sir Roger]

Rafa Benítez must keep Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher on his side at Liverpool

Ever since Rafael Benítez made his unwise criticism of “senior players’’ in the wake of the Aug 24 defeat to Aston Villa, resentment has lingered in certain quarters towards the Liverpool manager.

By Henry Winter
Published: 7:30AM BST 06 Oct 2009

Local heroes: Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard show their displeasure during the 3-1 home defeat to Aston Villa
Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher have both spoken to Benítez about his controversial comments.

It needs stressing that no rift exists at Anfield, but the complicated Benítez must re-engage with his team’s heartbeat, the home-grown pair of Huyton’s Gerrard and Bootle’s Carragher, if Liverpool are to prevent another season disappearing down the boulevard of broken dreams.

Liverpool players to blame for defeat. Passionate for the team to succeed, these two highly committed players are intelligent individuals, with Carragher a particularly deep thinker about the game. Gerrard is away with England but Carragher will be at Melwood so Benítez must start there, discussing with his centre-half how Liverpool can improve and how Benítez himself can become a better manager.

When Gerrard returns from the vibrant England dressing room after next week’s conclusion of a triumphant World Cup qualifying campaign, Benítez must also meet his captain. Together, Liverpool have a chance.

For those gathered in the Anfield media room 20 minutes after that 3-1 defeat to Villa, Benitez’s unflattering verdict on the contributions of Gerrard and Carragher sounded disrespectful to characters who have held Liverpool together from Istanbul to Barcelona.

After questioning the marking that allowed Curtis Davies to score Villa’s second (and Carragher was undoubtedly slightly culpable), Benítez hardly backed Gerrard in the build-up to Villa’s third. “Gerrard gave the penalty away and it was a clear penalty.’’ Ouch.

Benítez’s conclusion that “it is up to the senior players to take the responsibility’’ triggered the inevitable negative headlines.

Well-paid professionals should not retreat into bruised shells just because a manager highlights mistakes, but Benítez’s decision to excoriate stalwarts in public was surprising. It’s not the Liverpool way. At a time when players like Lucas, a Benítez favourite, were patently struggling, the disparaging of two Kop idols was bound to be contentious.

These remarks felt far more significant than Benítez’s “and that’s a fact’’ outburst at Sir Alex Ferguson last season. However much that ill-timed rant raised eyebrows in the Anfield dressing room, it did not raise questions internally like the questioning of “senior players’’.

For those whose natural inclination it is to defend Gerrard and Carragher, it needs recording that legitimate tactical reasons have arisen this season as to why they are not their usual accomplished selves.

Gerrard does not enjoy the swift, precise service of Xabi Alonso, who eventually departed to Real Madrid after falling out with Benítez. Carragher must organise defensive fortifications inevitably weakened by Alonso’s exit and Glen Johnson’s frequent disappearances upfield.

Benítez now calls on his players “to keep improving’’ following Sunday’s damaging defeat at Chelsea. It is worth the coach himself considering how he can “keep improving’’ his relations with the dressing room.

Such a driven manager, who made himself one of the most respected tacticians in Europe through constant research and self-improvement, now needs to work on his man-management skills.

Unlike Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsène Wenger, Mark Hughes, Martin O’Neill, Harry Redknapp, Carlo Ancelotti and David Moyes, Benítez is an incredibly difficult person to warm to. Too detached, too cold. Everyone has heard the stories of Gerrard joking that he will retire in shock when he gets a “well done’’ off Benítez.

Everyone knows the tale of the Spanish perfectionist pulling merry players to one side at Liverpool’s 2005 Champions League-winning party to debate dodgy first-half marking against Kaka and Hernán Crespo.

Emerging more recently has been Fernando Torres’s account of joyfully entering the dressing room after the birth of his first child to be greeted with presents and plaudits from team-mates. Benítez’s reaction? A comment about the importance of the near-post run.

Does it matter that this footballing obsessive seems to show no interest in his players as human beings? After all, this is the manager who stayed on for the 2005 Club World Championship in Tokyo despite learning that his father had passed away back in Spain. In Benítez’s eyes, he was merely being professional, being devoted to his team’s pursuit of trophies.

Those who know Benítez speak of a personable soul. Anyone who has seen his wife celebrating victories at Anfield, even singing 'You’ll Never Walk Alone’ before kick-off, will appreciate that there must be some hinterland to Benítez’s character.

If Liverpool are to get a grip of their season, Benítez must loosen up.
___LINK

Apart from the sensationalist slant and mischief making that is a good article.
I particularly like the "how Benítez himself can become a better manager. " part. This is one of the biggest weaknesses for me regarding Rafa. I dont think he should be friends, but I think he needs to realise that good man management can work with even the worst employee. Anyone who has managed in any capacity knows that it is not only those managed who need to improve. The manager has to raise his/her game too. Constantly criticising someone is not conducive or beneficial. Praising and supporting can raise confidence and achievement levels.
I can understand his frustrations when players dont play the way he wants them to or make mistakes which lead to defeats. However, if he turned his analytical eye on himself he might see that maybe some of the players he has bought arent good enough to do the job he wants them to do. Even worse, that he cannot motivate them to do the job. The problem is, if he cant see hes got a problem, who's brave or stupid enough to tell him?

[Greavesie]

just waiting for judge to create part 2

[ruskiy playmaker]

I feel that the poll's going to look much different after today's result.

[roberto green]

just waiting for judge to create part 2

Whats that sack rafa now or after we get beat by the mancs?

[Greavesie]

just waiting for judge to create part 2

Whats that sack rafa now or after we get beat by the mancs?

I'm sure he'll come up with something inventive mate 

[Emerald Red]

Seems as if RAWK has went into meltdown.

[Greavesie]

Seems as if RAWK has went into meltdown.

mate the whole fanbase is probably in meltdown

[boodiddy1]

He needs to change but he wont. He cant invigorate players to play with confidence. He knocks it out of them. For me, i want him gone. Not just on tonights game either. Six defeats in twelve. Thats embarrasing. Also, the style is stagnent.

I prefer english or british type managers. lways have, i wanted houllier out too. You need to understand the mentality. Mourinho and wenger have. No other foreigner has. We should of got redknapp, but with not so many to choose from then i reckon, dalglish, MON, redknapp, bruce.

Chew on that for a sec guys. 

[Dazzer]

He needs to change but he wont. He cant invigorate players to play with confidence. He knocks it out of them. For me, i want him gone. Not just on tonights game either. Six defeats in twelve. Thats embarrasing. Also, the style is stagnent.

I prefer english or british type managers. lways have, i wanted houllier out too. You need to understand the mentality. Mourinho and wenger have. No other foreigner has. We should of got redknapp, but with not so many to choose from then i reckon, dalglish, MON, redknapp, bruce.

Chew on that for a sec guys. 

Agree with you we need a manager that understands english football and the pace it is played at Rafa seems to be playing catch up all the time in the prem.I want a manager who has confidence in this players one that matchs his team up man for man and says go for the throat kill them. 

[big al]

It has been some time since I posted here and my reluctance has been that what I have too say would be entirely negative and in many ways not what fans here want to hear when their down. So what has motivated me to comment now.  Funny enough it was'nt the loss to Lyon, it was the fact that when we scored I could'nt even raise a cheer.  That's the first time in 37 years of following Liverpool since i was six years old.  It's not just Rafa's inability to man manage, or his egotistical ravings, nor his overly cautious tactics, nor his inability to have created a group of young emerging players who could briefly fill in, its not his lack of trophies in the last few years, nor his lack of passion, its not his stupid pre season tactics which meant his starting 11 against spurs were a yard short of pace, it isn't his failure to tell the best passing mid-fielder in the world that he got it wrong and Barry could'nt lace his boots, nor having the personal to touch with Peter whom it we'd kept last season would have most likely meant we'd have been champions.  Its not that Rafa lacks self awareness he know's he's cold so thats why he brought Sammy Lee in.  I am neither unhappy at his craving for power which has alienate so many ex players who served us so well.  I don'y mind his lack of sporting psychology (the lack that brought pressure on his own players by suddenly making eveyone aware last Xmas that we were sitting on top of the league) I don't think anyone had noticed until Rafa had a go at Fergie.  Its not his hit and miss approach to bringing in the right player, its not his ability to break the confidence of good players until they lose form like Yossi when he first joined us.  Its not his insistence that Dirk Kuyt is the best right midfielder for liverpool.  Its not his threats to walk away when he doesent get his way.  Its not any of these!  No what it his is his failure to go for the jugular when an opponent is down.  This inability means he does know how to be a real winner.  if you analyse the draws last year you see and overly cautious manager who doe'sent know how to finish teams off.  Tonigh Lyo Had two defensive midlfielders at center back, Ferguson would have thrown 2 or three up front and destroyed them, in fact all the very best managers would have went for them.  Rafa's cold and calculating alright but only towards his onw players.  This coldness means he calculates substitutions on the basis of statics like most goals are scored by subs when they come on in the last quarter of a game.  I did'nt cheer because I knew we were going to lose my belief is gone I expect to get beat because so do the Liverpool players.  Think on this:  Gerrard stayed with England even when he knew he was hurt whilst Rooney went home,  Did Stepen Gerrard stay because Capello was putting the arm around his shoulder and saying all the things Rafa would'nt. You can bet Fergie patted Rooney on the head and said good lad, Man U first Wayne Man U first. Shankly was ruthless but he also had a heart of gold, he knew you can't treat everone the same, some need a boot up the backside and some need an arm around the shoulder and to be told your brilliant you'll get your form back, your the best.  In the end one thing is the most essential thing and that's admiting you got it wrong even if its just behind closed doors to those who are your players and that's about having humility.  Even the special one has shown he has that quality.  If Rafa wants to beat Man U and get over the past then he needs to learn that we are all of us merely human and all need praise and recognition but it is best when it comes from those who are supposed to be showing us the way.

[agoodmentality]

I've supported Rafa to the hilt,,,but I haven't felt this bad since Wigan away last season,,:angry:

He's got to go,,,,I hate saying it, but he has,,   Does anybody know how much his contract is worth??

Whoever said our squad was as good as the mancs,, your talking pish,,,,
Take out the 2 Best players out of every PL squad and put them up man for man against us,, think about it,
IMHO I'd take chelski's squad, man u, arsenal, man city, aston villa, spurs, bloody hell everton and sunderlands squads even start to look ok.

[Dazzer]

It has been some time since I posted here and my reluctance has been that what I have too say would be entirely negative and in many ways not what fans here want to hear when their down. So what has motivated me to comment now.  Funny enough it was'nt the loss to Lyon, it was the fact that when we scored I could'nt even raise a cheer.  That's the first time in 37 years of following Liverpool since i was six years old.  It's not just Rafa's inability to man manage, or his egotistical ravings, nor his overly cautious tactics, nor his inability to have created a group of young emerging players who could briefly fill in, its not his lack of trophies in the last few years, nor his lack of passion, its not his stupid pre season tactics which meant his starting 11 against spurs were a yard short of pace, it isn't his failure to tell the best passing mid-fielder in the world that he got it wrong and Barry could'nt lace his boots, nor having the personal to touch with Peter whom it we'd kept last season would have most likely meant we'd have been champions.  Its not that Rafa lacks self awareness he know's he's cold so thats why he brought Sammy Lee in.  I am neither unhappy at his craving for power which has alienate so many ex players who served us so well.  I don'y mind his lack of sporting psychology (the lack that brought pressure on his own players by suddenly making eveyone aware last Xmas that we were sitting on top of the league) I don't think anyone had noticed until Rafa had a go at Fergie.  Its not his hit and miss approach to bringing in the right player, its not his ability to break the confidence of good players until they lose form like Yossi when he first joined us.  Its not his insistence that Dirk Kuyt is the best right midfielder for liverpool.  Its not his threats to walk away when he doesent get his way.  Its not any of these!  No what it his is his failure to go for the jugular when an opponent is down.  This inability means he does know how to be a real winner.  if you analyse the draws last year you see and overly cautious manager who doe'sent know how to finish teams off.  Tonigh Lyo Had two defensive midlfielders at center back, Ferguson would have thrown 2 or three up front and destroyed them, in fact all the very best managers would have went for them.  Rafa's cold and calculating alright but only towards his onw players.  This coldness means he calculates substitutions on the basis of statics like most goals are scored by subs when they come on in the last quarter of a game.  I did'nt cheer because I knew we were going to lose my belief is gone I expect to get beat because so do the Liverpool players.  Think on this:  Gerrard stayed with England even when he knew he was hurt whilst Rooney went home,  Did Stepen Gerrard stay because Capello was putting the arm around his shoulder and saying all the things Rafa would'nt. You can bet Fergie patted Rooney on the head and said good lad, Man U first Wayne Man U first. Shankly was ruthless but he also had a heart of gold, he knew you can't treat everone the same, some need a boot up the backside and some need an arm around the shoulder and to be told your brilliant you'll get your form back, your the best.  In the end one thing is the most essential thing and that's admiting you got it wrong even if its just behind closed doors to those who are your players and that's about having humility.  Even the special one has shown he has that quality.  If Rafa wants to beat Man U and get over the past then he needs to learn that we are all of us merely human and all need praise and recognition but it is best when it comes from those who are supposed to be showing us the way.

Fecking class post mate 10/10. 

[lakes10]

time for a reset on this poll i think.