Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

Still undecided, I would see at the end of the season, though I would let him see off his remaining contract at the club.

[Sir Roger]

I guess Lee is just getting fustrated about the amount of negative stuff going on here and what it seems to be a lack of support for the manager while the guy is still our manager .

If people were just being negative for the sake of it I would agree with you and say they should be supporting the manager.
But I believe many of the points I have seen raised are valid and true and have been raised by real true supporters of LFC who want whats best for their club.
Peoples faith (or lack of it) in Rafa is a major concern to everyone and should and must be discussed if we are serously talking about progress (or lack of it)

[maguskwt]

I think that squad-wise we stepped backwards... at first with the addition of keane and riera, it seems to be a good move. But the keane debacle was a major setback. Both Rafa and Parry need to explain that debacle. We only have Riera now that was a good addition after we let Riise go... (didn't rate Crouchy that much so wouldn't see it as a lost). Dossena was disappointing and I've almost forgotten about Degen.

Having said that... we did manage to challenge for the title, outplayed and beat our rivals fair and square... this season is not a disaster... not just yet... once we beat Real and then the mancs, things will be looking up once again...

[redhayesy]

I read this post over on RAWK in a thread what will it take for Liverpool fans to get on , i nicked the lads post an copied it an have put it in here for that i apologise but it was such a good read, imo anyway. i didnt know where to put it so i put it in here , if its wrong move it mods please

The question being asked what would it take for liverpool fans to get on .

My two cents. I’ve begun to realise lately that winning is everything to an awful lot of people, more than ever before. That’s the main problem, Andy. What’s really brought that home to me in not-so-glorious technicolor is the treatment meted out lately towards Rafa and the team by some of our own.

Now, granted, the internet doesn’t provide a wholly accurate reflection of Liverpool’s support as a whole. Nor do phone-ins, nor do a minority booing one of our players. For my money, the majority of our support is still made up of honest-to-God, committed, respectful, intelligent supporters who know their stuff, know how to support the team, think about the game to a deeper level than simply watching Sky or Match of the Day, know the club’s history through and through, make me proud to be one of their number, and will support Liverpool though their dreams be tossed and blown, through both the good times and the bad.

Take RAWK as a snapshot of that. Mere internet site or not,  there are some great, great supporters and people on these boards, and they are in the majority here, as they are in general, I believe.

The truly experienced, battle-hardened Liverpool supporter has purity of motivation. To support the club, full stop. Yes, we want to win. We all want the Premier League, that’s a given. We even desperately want it. Nineteen years is a long time, especially for those of us who have been there for all of it. The problem starts when people begin looking over into the neighbour’s yard and envying what they have. For me, I want to see Liverpool doing well, and that’s enough. But for some, they want what someone else has.

Look, I’ve been there. When I was younger and foolish, I’ll admit that I lapsed. Back in the mid-nineties, I found myself falling into this thing of wanting Manchester United to lose almost as badly as I wanted Liverpool to win (almost). I’ve grown out of that, and I‘m embarrassed at my younger self to be honest. I’ve matured. All that matters to me now is that Liverpool do well. That the club is healthy, that the players are fit and well, and that they and the manager are adequately supported. That’s our job as supporters.

Some of us, however, have become fixated on what the other side have. Manchester United, looking like they’re going to equal our haul of League Titles, already European and World Champions, have won 10 titles since we won our last. It’s a desperate situation, I won’t lie. And desperation can be good, it can be. It can force us to do what it takes, it can make us go the extra yard rather than play it safe. I’ve been desperate in my life, and at times it’s made me force myself to do what’s needed. And I’ve done it.

In this case, you’d like to think that the desperation we all feel would make us scream and sing that bit louder at the games, support the manager and the players that bit stronger, but unfortunately sometimes it seems to be working the opposite way. So you get some supporters doing the following:

- Looking at Lucas and thinking “He’s useless! How are we ever going to catch the Mancs with him playing?!” Rather than realising that someone like Anderson, who cost twice as much, is not a regular in the United team, and when he does play, isn’t that much better than Lucas (who’s much more inexperienced), if at all, and is fortunate to be playing in such a well-oiled machine.
- Allowing desperation to overtake them to the point that they boo some of our own players. At this point, they are no longer proper football “supporters” (the clue is in the name). At this point, they're clearly not Liverpool supporters anymore, because they're not supporting the team. And a deep division begins to show between them and those that do.
- Thinking “ this !” after a rare loss (they are exceedingly rare for us) at Middlesbrough, and deciding that this is the last straw after draws against Stoke (twice), Wigan, West Ham, Hull, Fulham, Man. City and Everton. Rather than waking up and smelling the roses. And they do still smell nice. They haven’t turned to just yet.
- Following such thoughts with “Rafa will never win us the Premier League, he has to go!!” Rather than realising just what the man has achieved. With a net spend of roughly £20m per summer, he has taken us progressively closer to the top of the table, improved our squad immeasurably, taken us into the last 16 in Europe five times, given us some of our greatest ever memories, achieved things that we have no right to expect, and yet these people would rather look at what the other kids (in this case, United supporters) have, and going “Mammy, mammy, I want what they have!!” like it’s a piece of , like it's a matter of strolling over there and taking it, never thinking that if they got their way and Rafa left, what we might gain would pale into insignificance next to what we would probably lose.

But it’s all about winning to some.

So I reckon that’s the issue. There isn’t a unity of purpose anymore. And you can’t pinpoint it to out-of-towners (I’m one, and I feel like I’m a good supporter) or younger supporters (we were all young once) or local supporters (the true lifeblood of the club) or any other demographic. We’re all different, and every group you can think of has its who have forgotten what it means to be a supporter - you support.

In answer to the question, what will it take for LFC fans to get on? Sadly, I think it would take consistent success on a major scale comparable to what United have had for the past fifteen years. Even then, you’d probably have a few of the older heads reminiscing ruefully on how it used to be. Everything today, especially in football, is brash, arrogant, loud, disingenuous and geared towards the victor. Lose, and you’re fair game. Win, and you can have history rewritten for you. There’s nothing you can do about it but go on supporting your team, and try to educate as best you can.

That’s what I always try to do.

thank you so much for that NR. that post has said it all for me! whoever the person is they are a genius in my book! it has pionted out for me everything i say or try to educate other som called LFC  fans about in the pub. that is by far such an example to people on this forum- it's about knowing your history, knowledge, belief etc that makes this post so brilliant to read. it has taken thought,passion, intelligence to compile that post, i only wish i had the patience to post somthing of that quality on here. cause by the time you read most posts, i for one have totally lost what i was going to say,by being destacted by bu11sh1t & negative remarks that i run out of patience end of.

top post from a fan of LFC who thinks exactly the same as me.
but he is far better than me for the way he puts it on a pc.

     that post has made me enjoy my birthday even more, talking of which i'm off to the pub in a mo for more ale.

[NANNY RED]

That lads post is bang on as far as im concerned Hayesy

[roberto green]

Iv'e been away for a month so haven't had a chance to vote on this.How divided is this opinion?

[Dundalk]

Well at the moment number 2 is winning - just

But when you vote you will see all

[bigmick]

Interstingly the results are 43 for the top 5, and 40 for the bottom. I'm bound to say though I don't think that represents forum opinion. I think based on what I read, probably two thirds to three quarters of people still believe in the manager.

[redhayesy]

That lads post is bang on as far as im concerned Hayesy

[GYBS]

That lads post is bang on as far as im concerned Hayesy

yep i must agree with both of you

[Judge]

Iv'e been away for a month so haven't had a chance to vote on this. How divided is this opinion?

read it for yourself

[Owzat]

Interstingly the results are 43 for the top 5, and 40 for the bottom. I'm bound to say though I don't think that represents forum opinion. I think based on what I read, probably two thirds to three quarters of people still believe in the manager.

The problem is the poll offers too many options when most people will feel aspects of more than one option. ie it's unlikely you can put in one poll option exactly how people feel.

So far Rafa has done some good things, other things not so good :-

- Champions League 10/10. Won it, can't ask more than that and also reached a semi and a second final in four years.

- Premiership 7/10. He has achieved a few improvements in points tallies, but we're essentially no closer to winning the league (at the end of a season) than Houllier was or Evans. ie we're still finishing 3rd or 4th.

- FA Cup 5/10. Won it, not convincing in the final and had a few blips including Barnsley at home last season and the bitters this.

- League Cup 4/10. Disregards it which isn't a bad thing, one final holds up ok, but it's barely worth rating performance in a competition we field a second string in.

- Management, Signings, Tactics etc 6/10. Not sure if I think that's generous or mean. I'm not going to go into the breakdown again as it's been done to death on this forum and is in part contributory to the various competition ratings.

You'd have to weight those, but unless you place greatest importance in the Champions League then he'd be struggling to make 8/10. In fact I'd be inclined to say 7/10 would be the maximum because the Premiership is the basic requirement and his rating should not exceed whatever level he reaches at that.

[heimdall]

Interstingly the results are 43 for the top 5, and 40 for the bottom. I'm bound to say though I don't think that represents forum opinion. I think based on what I read, probably two thirds to three quarters of people still believe in the manager.

The problem is the poll offers too many options when most people will feel aspects of more than one option. ie it's unlikely you can put in one poll option exactly how people feel.

So far Rafa has done some good things, other things not so good :-

- Champions League 10/10. Won it, can't ask more than that and also reached a semi and a second final in four years.

- Premiership 7/10. He has achieved a few improvements in points tallies, but we're essentially no closer to winning the league (at the end of a season) than Houllier was or Evans. ie we're still finishing 3rd or 4th.

- FA Cup 5/10. Won it, not convincing in the final and had a few blips including Barnsley at home last season and the bitters this.

- League Cup 4/10. Disregards it which isn't a bad thing, one final holds up ok, but it's barely worth rating performance in a competition we field a second string in.

- Management, Signings, Tactics etc 6/10. Not sure if I think that's generous or mean. I'm not going to go into the breakdown again as it's been done to death on this forum and is in part contributory to the various competition ratings.

You'd have to weight those, but unless you place greatest importance in the Champions League then he'd be struggling to make 8/10. In fact I'd be inclined to say 7/10 would be the maximum because the Premiership is the basic requirement and his rating should not exceed whatever level he reaches at that.

Surely the more options in a poll the better Owzat?

If it was just a stay or go then that would be too restrictive. In any case I'm a bit surprised more peopel haven't voted for 0 

[112-1077774096]

dont forget burnley in the FA cup owzat 

[Judge]

dont forget burnley in the FA cup owzat 

what will happen in this thread after march 2009?