Liverpool FC Forum

[whylongball?]

I read this morning on the BBc that Rafa blames our dip in form
on Torres bieng injured so much and it had quotes an all  .

It's got nothing to do with not enough attacking options in the side and the rest
of the supposed strikers bieng kack, this is what get's me about Rafa.

It's unfair to pass the buck to Torres, he ain't the manager, the manager
should make sure we have enough cover in all areas to not feck up.

exactly my thought!
cut BS on blaming others

[Salty Sock]

I found it foulgandering to appoint Liverpool's faulty performances on one key striker. If we don't concede we don't lose, we been conceding goals. If he is as good as he makes out then he should be making magic with strategy not reliance on one player

[TheLad]

I vote for 6.

[Greavesie]

who voted he was lucky?

[Owzat]

Is it "keep the faith" bon jovi style, or "faith" George Michael style?

[NANNY RED]

I read this post over on RAWK in a thread what will it take for Liverpool fans to get on , i nicked the lads post an copied it an have put it in here for that i apologise but it was such a good read, imo anyway. i didnt know where to put it so i put it in here , if its wrong move it mods please

The question being asked what would it take for liverpool fans to get on .

My two cents. I’ve begun to realise lately that winning is everything to an awful lot of people, more than ever before. That’s the main problem, Andy. What’s really brought that home to me in not-so-glorious technicolor is the treatment meted out lately towards Rafa and the team by some of our own.

Now, granted, the internet doesn’t provide a wholly accurate reflection of Liverpool’s support as a whole. Nor do phone-ins, nor do a minority booing one of our players. For my money, the majority of our support is still made up of honest-to-God, committed, respectful, intelligent supporters who know their stuff, know how to support the team, think about the game to a deeper level than simply watching Sky or Match of the Day, know the club’s history through and through, make me proud to be one of their number, and will support Liverpool though their dreams be tossed and blown, through both the good times and the bad.

Take RAWK as a snapshot of that. Mere internet site or not,  there are some great, great supporters and people on these boards, and they are in the majority here, as they are in general, I believe.

The truly experienced, battle-hardened Liverpool supporter has purity of motivation. To support the club, full stop. Yes, we want to win. We all want the Premier League, that’s a given. We even desperately want it. Nineteen years is a long time, especially for those of us who have been there for all of it. The problem starts when people begin looking over into the neighbour’s yard and envying what they have. For me, I want to see Liverpool doing well, and that’s enough. But for some, they want what someone else has.

Look, I’ve been there. When I was younger and foolish, I’ll admit that I lapsed. Back in the mid-nineties, I found myself falling into this thing of wanting Manchester United to lose almost as badly as I wanted Liverpool to win (almost). I’ve grown out of that, and I‘m embarrassed at my younger self to be honest. I’ve matured. All that matters to me now is that Liverpool do well. That the club is healthy, that the players are fit and well, and that they and the manager are adequately supported. That’s our job as supporters.

Some of us, however, have become fixated on what the other side have. Manchester United, looking like they’re going to equal our haul of League Titles, already European and World Champions, have won 10 titles since we won our last. It’s a desperate situation, I won’t lie. And desperation can be good, it can be. It can force us to do what it takes, it can make us go the extra yard rather than play it safe. I’ve been desperate in my life, and at times it’s made me force myself to do what’s needed. And I’ve done it.

In this case, you’d like to think that the desperation we all feel would make us scream and sing that bit louder at the games, support the manager and the players that bit stronger, but unfortunately sometimes it seems to be working the opposite way. So you get some supporters doing the following:

- Looking at Lucas and thinking “He’s useless! How are we ever going to catch the Mancs with him playing?!” Rather than realising that someone like Anderson, who cost twice as much, is not a regular in the United team, and when he does play, isn’t that much better than Lucas (who’s much more inexperienced), if at all, and is fortunate to be playing in such a well-oiled machine.
- Allowing desperation to overtake them to the point that they boo some of our own players. At this point, they are no longer proper football “supporters” (the clue is in the name). At this point, they're clearly not Liverpool supporters anymore, because they're not supporting the team. And a deep division begins to show between them and those that do.
- Thinking “ this !” after a rare loss (they are exceedingly rare for us) at Middlesbrough, and deciding that this is the last straw after draws against Stoke (twice), Wigan, West Ham, Hull, Fulham, Man. City and Everton. Rather than waking up and smelling the roses. And they do still smell nice. They haven’t turned to just yet.
- Following such thoughts with “Rafa will never win us the Premier League, he has to go!!” Rather than realising just what the man has achieved. With a net spend of roughly £20m per summer, he has taken us progressively closer to the top of the table, improved our squad immeasurably, taken us into the last 16 in Europe five times, given us some of our greatest ever memories, achieved things that we have no right to expect, and yet these people would rather look at what the other kids (in this case, United supporters) have, and going “Mammy, mammy, I want what they have!!” like it’s a piece of , like it's a matter of strolling over there and taking it, never thinking that if they got their way and Rafa left, what we might gain would pale into insignificance next to what we would probably lose.

But it’s all about winning to some.

So I reckon that’s the issue. There isn’t a unity of purpose anymore. And you can’t pinpoint it to out-of-towners (I’m one, and I feel like I’m a good supporter) or younger supporters (we were all young once) or local supporters (the true lifeblood of the club) or any other demographic. We’re all different, and every group you can think of has its who have forgotten what it means to be a supporter - you support.

In answer to the question, what will it take for LFC fans to get on? Sadly, I think it would take consistent success on a major scale comparable to what United have had for the past fifteen years. Even then, you’d probably have a few of the older heads reminiscing ruefully on how it used to be. Everything today, especially in football, is brash, arrogant, loud, disingenuous and geared towards the victor. Lose, and you’re fair game. Win, and you can have history rewritten for you. There’s nothing you can do about it but go on supporting your team, and try to educate as best you can.

That’s what I always try to do.

[oreilly]

Now, granted, the internet doesn’t provide a wholly accurate reflection of Liverpool’s support as a whole. Nor do phone-ins, nor do a minority booing one of our players. For my money, the majority of our support is still made up of honest-to-God, committed, respectful, intelligent supporters who know their stuff, know how to support the team, think about the game to a deeper level than simply watching Sky or Match of the Day, know the club’s history through and through, make me proud to be one of their number, and will support Liverpool though their dreams be tossed and blown, through both the good times and the bad.

Thats the thing, Im 23 and Iv read this forum for at least 6 years.........Iv been here reading all your post , I have my favourites etc and people I think are rude and very aggressive. and to be honest its the latter that stop the likes me getting involved. Sometimes people write their piece but their point doesnt get across the way it sounded in their head- ---- some people on this forum are great writers and debator while others aren't ( including myself) thats life. Saying that it does get on my nerve when some fan throws a comment like you are a bitter in disguise..........or not a real fan
We all are real fans, we check this site everyday and know what Rafa eats for practice!

We all want Liverpool to do well, We all want Rafa to do well. My thinking is all over the place, the majority of the time i want rafa and then sometimes i dont....... isnt that just natural?!

[Kharhaz]

- Thinking “ this !” after a rare loss (they are exceedingly rare for us) at Middlesbrough, and deciding that this is the last straw after draws against Stoke (twice), Wigan, West Ham, Hull, Fulham, Man. City and Everton. Rather than waking up and smelling the roses. And they do still smell nice. They haven’t turned to just yet.

Someone posted one of the main problems with rafas mentality the other night, he sets his team up to not lose. And to me this is about right.

As to this fellas reply to another poster, this forum has it about right also, he is in the "pro" rafa camp. It hasnt turned to "pap" just yet, no, but there is a very strong whiff in the air. The only way this season can turn into a total disaster is if we get knocked out of europe by Real Madrid, and considering our results at Anfield this season, its by far not impossible.

Ive tried a lot of times this season to be positive but I am too far gone now that my faith in rafa has all but gone. I remember the post Leon put up and in his honest assesment he pointed out how frustrated he gets with how rafa picks the team, but he gets the frustration out and remembers where he has been in europe through travelling to european games because of what rafa has achieved.

Not everyone can afford to travel abroad every other week and this is where scousers have to admit, Liverpool is a more productive city with opportunities far greater than many other places around the UK for local employment. This affects the supporter a great deal, those who can afford to get to the games see things in a greater detail than those who cant afford to and have to make do with streams on the internet.

For me there is no question of the support, we are all here on this forum for the love of this mighty club.  The difference lies in the way in which people can afford to spend money to follow our beloved club, its hard to get the feeling from being there in the crowd when a lot of out of towners can at best afford a cheap internet connection to follow our club.

What divides the supporters is this, the one who can afford to regularly go to live matches, and the ones who get the one off opportunity. Look at the match against sunderland and prove me wrong. Who were in that crowd? the regulars or the opportunists? Im guessing its the latter.

[account deleted by request]

Fernando Torres: I'll Stay At Liverpool Even If Benitez Goes
'El Nino' has insisted his future is cemented at Anfield, even if his manager and fellow Spaniard leaves.
5 Mar 2009 23:48:58

Fernando Torres has confirmed through his personal website, fernando9torres.com, that he will remain with Liverpool even if Rafa Benitez, who has yet to sign a new contract with the team, does not continue at Anfield for one reason or another.

"My future is tied with Liverpool, because I still have four years left to run on my contract," he said.

"Should Rafa leave, I will stay on and fulfil my contract with the club."

Torres wishes to remain faithful to the Reds, however unsure he is of the effect Benitez's exit may have on him.

"My wish is that Rafa extends his contract with Liverpool. I cannot think about how a possible departure might affect me, because it hasn't happened yet, and I don't like wasting time thinking about ifs and buts," he said.

Liverpool fans the world over have been made optimistic through the 24-year-old stating that he hopes to be fit enough for the second leg of Liverpool's clash with Real Madrid.

----------------------------------------------

I think Fernando just voted option 4

[bigmick]

Least that puts that one to bed then. The other fly in the ointment could be if any of the players put in a transfer request at the end of ths season because rafa is STAYING. I'm basing the pontification upon absolutely nothing except for a bit of body language, but it's just a feeling. Mind you, saying I'm basing it on nothing, it's only the same as the oft' repeated thing about the mass exodus should Rafa leave.

Might be interesting at the end of the season thoguh, to see whether all of the players still buy into the Rafalution. I'll be specifically interested in Carragher and Gerrard, although it's simply impossible to imagine Carragher playing for anyone else, and Gerrard too to a slightly lesser extent.

[GYBS]

Thats a great post that the lad on Rawk has done and very good to see . Pretty much sums up my feelings about things esp the part about people thinking we have some god claimed right to win everything and making it out as if its going to be a stroll in the park . Cheers for that nannny - a refreshing read.

[Owzat]

We wanted a manager to win the league, his title challenges have come off the rails long before the finishing line. He's spent a lot of money, brought in some dodgy players and we're still no closer to sorting out the full-backs, wingers and in fact we're down to one striker worth mentioning. Add that to all the doubts over his tactics, team selection and it boils down to more than just his ability, or should I say inability, to win games.

yeah your right - get shut of him. I really dont give a monkey's left bollok anymore

Wish you'd show it and give it a rest. We get it, you want everyone to get behind Rafa. You don't have to do it in a Ronaldo-esque way of getting in a strop and letting everyone know you're "hurt".

[Owzat]

Now, granted, the internet doesn’t provide a wholly accurate reflection of Liverpool’s support as a whole. Nor do phone-ins, nor do a minority booing one of our players. For my money, the majority of our support is still made up of honest-to-God, committed, respectful, intelligent supporters who know their stuff, know how to support the team, think about the game to a deeper level than simply watching Sky or Match of the Day, know the club’s history through and through, make me proud to be one of their number, and will support Liverpool though their dreams be tossed and blown, through both the good times and the bad.

Thats the thing, Im 23 and Iv read this forum for at least 6 years.........Iv been here reading all your post , I have my favourites etc and people I think are rude and very aggressive. and to be honest its the latter that stop the likes me getting involved. Sometimes people write their piece but their point doesnt get across the way it sounded in their head- ---- some people on this forum are great writers and debator while others aren't ( including myself) thats life. Saying that it does get on my nerve when some fan throws a comment like you are a bitter in disguise..........or not a real fan
We all are real fans, we check this site everyday and know what Rafa eats for practice!

We all want Liverpool to do well, We all want Rafa to do well. My thinking is all over the place, the majority of the time i want rafa and then sometimes i dont....... isnt that just natural?!

Now be fair, "real Liverpool fans" don't go on the internet, they live in caves and hunt their breakfast. They know how to support their team, they don't say anything bad about the manager or players, they just boo them. Nah, that's just OOTers, the vocal minority/majority who make more noise than the locals, the "real Liverpool fans" who only come out of their caves when there's a match on or need food or to find a mate.


I really do get bored with reading some of the crap on here, people making statements of fact about things they can't possibly know one way or the other. About fans, opinions, what makes a "true fan", that Parry was evil, who Rafa wanted to buy and why he didn't get his way etc

And that isn't a pop at you oreilly, it's the idiots on here who think they can tell people how they should think, what makes a real fan etc Of course whoever you are quoting can't be a real fan because they don't come on the internet or call phone-ins *rolleyes emoticon* (that's because those accusing them of not being real fans don't like their opinions, no more, no less)

[GYBS]

I guess Lee is just getting fustrated about the amount of negative stuff going on here and what it seems to be a lack of support for the manager while the guy is still our manager .

[Roger Red Hat]

I guess Lee is just getting fustrated about the amount of negative stuff going on here and what it seems to be a lack of support for the manager while the guy is still our manager .

thats correct. I've nothing against anyone I just dont like reading some of the cr@p on here pulling our manager and basically wishing he was gone. It's so sad.