Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

[roberto green]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

Yeah we might of well been the first team to beat Chelsea at home in 4 years or whatever but then they got beat in the carling cup at home and then Arsenalat home and there will be more because they ar'nt the force they were at the moment plus if we do win the league this year it will be 1 place above the mancs if we don't win it the mancs win their 18th league title and that doesn't bear thinking of.  

[Ciggy]

listen you b@stard, dont mention family. if you're so great try saying that to my face you fecking cun+t. i'll smash your teeth through the back of your neck you f*ckface.

[roberto green]

listen you b@stard, dont mention family. if you're so great try saying that to my face you fecking cun+t. i'll smash your teeth through the back of your neck you f*ckface.

I think what he ment to say is "Merry Christmas and happy New Year"  

[Bam]

Since then it seems to me we have seen some more odd selections. Insua doing a "now you see him now you don't" at Blackburn, Hyppia and Agger doing the hokey cokey, Keane playing hide and seek

[Emerald Red]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

Yeah we might of well been the first team to beat Chelsea at home in 4 years or whatever but then they got beat in the carling cup at home and then Arsenalat home and there will be more because they ar'nt the force they were at the moment plus if we do win the league this year it will be 1 place above the mancs if we don't win it the mancs win their 18th league title and that doesn't bear thinking of.  

Chelsea aren't the force they were? If anything they've improved their squad. I seriously do not get it why people will constantly cut their own noses off to spite their own faces. People will rather be in awe of the amazing Chelsea and United before the season starts and rule us out of it straight away. But as soon as we look as if we could actually compete with them, people still go into denial. Chelsea are just as strong as what they were under Mourinho, only difference is that Scolari is a more attack-minded manager than he ever was. He was the manager of Brazil FFS. Their mantra was always to score more goals than the opposition, and defense was a secondary thought. Just look at how many goals they've scored this season. Recognize a pattern there? They will leave gaps in their armor and be prone to defeat. Two defeats already at home, almost out of the CL at the group stages, hardly any better than us, are they? They will get beaten again this season and at home, and you can quote me on that. We've as good a chance as ANY of winning this league this season simply because we are as good as any. This defeatist attitude I've been seeing on this forum when we are top of the league and it's almost January is f*cking unbelievable and a disgrace. The press is out to have a dig at us and the manager with their doubts, but the fans too? F*ck right off! If I were to ask half of people on this forum would they have been happy to see us at the top by January, they'd have no doubt laughed but at the same time would say absolutely. Now that we're almost at this stage, I find it bewildering that people are miserable b@stards, and some even wanting the manager sacked.

[JC_81]

Don't agree that Benitez has taken us as far as he can.  Do agree that his stubbornness is a problem and that overall his signings have been average at best.

IMO his biggest problem is that he worries too much about the opposition, when sometimes we just need him to tell the players they are better than the sh.ite they are up against, put out his best XI and watch them win 2 or 3 nil.  Save the 'tactical genius' for the games in the Champions League or against the other top 4 sides.

Sitting Keane on the bench yesterday had nothing to do with form or tactics, it was to prove a point.  What point?  Only Benitez knows.  All I know is that we needed another striker on the park yesterday with 30 mins to go, not Lucas with 10 to go.

All that said we are still top of the league and with a far better squad than Benitez took over 5 years ago.  We have also done it this season without the best striker in the world, and with Torres to come back in the new year we are not dead and buried yet, far from it.

If we beat Arsenal next week, watch general opinion COMPLETELY sway once again in favour of Benitez the 'tactical genius' and in favour of us bringing home number 19 this season.

When you see Madrid having to turn to Ramos, it goes to show that we would have real difficulty replacing Benitez with an equal or better manager at the moment, they are few and far between.  We're top of the league going into Christmas for the first time since Benitez took charge and rotation has largely been binned to the relief of many, why in good fu.ck would you get rid of Benitez now???  Get a clue.

[roberto green]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

Yeah we might of well been the first team to beat Chelsea at home in 4 years or whatever but then they got beat in the carling cup at home and then Arsenalat home and there will be more because they ar'nt the force they were at the moment plus if we do win the league this year it will be 1 place above the mancs if we don't win it the mancs win their 18th league title and that doesn't bear thinking of.  

Chelsea aren't the force they were? If anything they've improved their squad. I seriously do not get it why people will constantly cut their own noses off to spite their own faces. People will rather be in awe of the amazing Chelsea and United before the season starts and rule us out of it straight away. But as soon as we look as if we could actually compete with them, people still go into denial. Chelsea are just as strong as what they were under Mourinho, only difference is that Scolari is a more attack-minded manager than he ever was. He was the manager of Brazil FFS. Their mantra was always to score more goals than the opposition, and defense was a secondary thought. Just look at how many goals they've scored this season. Recognize a pattern there? They will leave gaps in their armor and be prone to defeat. Two defeats already at home, almost out of the CL at the group stages, hardly any better than us, are they? They will get beaten again this season and at home, and you can quote me on that. We've as good a chance as ANY of winning this league this season simply because we are as good as any. This defeatist attitude I've been seeing on this forum when we are top of the league and it's almost January is f*cking unbelievable and a disgrace. The press is out to have a dig at us and the manager with their doubts, but the fans too? F*ck right off! If I were to ask half of people on this forum would they have been happy to see us at the top by January, they'd have no doubt laughed but at the same time would say absolutely. Now that we're almost at this stage, I find it bewildering that people are miserable b@stards, and some even wanting the manager sacked.

You have me so wrong on this and my point of view,if you go to some of the other topics on here i have backed our manager and the team and i am off as much as you at the fact everyone is so negative and i am only stating that if we win the league it will the mancs to beat to win the league,that I personally think that chealsea arn't as good under Scholari is just my opinion and i'm a lot more optimstic than most on here that were on the right track.

[Fo Dne]

Top of the league and complaining... I guess it was to be expected. Personally I would be happy if Rafa stays here for another 10 years and that opinion wont change.

I'll take a page out of Stu's book here: "form is temporary, class is permanent"

Rafa is not going to forget how to run his team, he is only going to get better. Rafa is class, no matter what short-term form shows. If we replace him we will lose everything we have built, and a betting man would bet on Gerrard finishing his career without that premier league medal. Maybe the current strangle hold that the top 4 of the English league has on European football is because of the relative stability of the managers.

Just give it a rest

Four nearly five years is short term?

Ok mate yeah!

[NANNY RED]

All that said we are still top of the league and with a far better squad than Benitez took over 5 years ago.  We have also done it this season without the best striker in the world, and with Torres to come back in the new year we are not dead and buried yet, far from it.

If we beat Arsenal next week, watch general opinion COMPLETELY sway once again in favour of Benitez the 'tactical genius' and in favour of us bringing home number 19 this season.

When you see Madrid having to turn to Ramos, it goes to show that we would have real difficulty replacing Benitez with an equal or better manager at the moment, they are few and far between.  We're top of the league going into Christmas for the first time since Benitez took charge and rotation has largely been binned to the relief of many, why in good fu.ck would you get rid of Benitez now???  Get a clue.

Some good points there John.

I for one would never have believed we would be top of the league without our main goal threat. when Torres comes back it will be like a new signing for us in the second half of the season.

[Emerald Red]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

Yeah we might of well been the first team to beat Chelsea at home in 4 years or whatever but then they got beat in the carling cup at home and then Arsenalat home and there will be more because they ar'nt the force they were at the moment plus if we do win the league this year it will be 1 place above the mancs if we don't win it the mancs win their 18th league title and that doesn't bear thinking of.  

Chelsea aren't the force they were? If anything they've improved their squad. I seriously do not get it why people will constantly cut their own noses off to spite their own faces. People will rather be in awe of the amazing Chelsea and United before the season starts and rule us out of it straight away. But as soon as we look as if we could actually compete with them, people still go into denial. Chelsea are just as strong as what they were under Mourinho, only difference is that Scolari is a more attack-minded manager than he ever was. He was the manager of Brazil FFS. Their mantra was always to score more goals than the opposition, and defense was a secondary thought. Just look at how many goals they've scored this season. Recognize a pattern there? They will leave gaps in their armor and be prone to defeat. Two defeats already at home, almost out of the CL at the group stages, hardly any better than us, are they? They will get beaten again this season and at home, and you can quote me on that. We've as good a chance as ANY of winning this league this season simply because we are as good as any. This defeatist attitude I've been seeing on this forum when we are top of the league and it's almost January is f*cking unbelievable and a disgrace. The press is out to have a dig at us and the manager with their doubts, but the fans too? F*ck right off! If I were to ask half of people on this forum would they have been happy to see us at the top by January, they'd have no doubt laughed but at the same time would say absolutely. Now that we're almost at this stage, I find it bewildering that people are miserable b@stards, and some even wanting the manager sacked.

You have me so wrong on this and my point of view,if you go to some of the other topics on here i have backed our manager and the team and i am off as much as you at the fact everyone is so negative and i am only stating that if we win the league it will the mancs to beat to win the league,that I personally think that chealsea arn't as good under Scholari is just my opinion and i'm a lot more optimstic than most on here that were on the right track.

Sorry, that wasn't directed straight at yourself, I was just continuing on my stance of what I thought of the general consensus that a lot of the posters on the board seem to be taking. Wires can get crossed as a result.

[roberto green]

but personally I don't believe the manager can take us any further and I don't for a second believe we have enough quality to win this league. Its United's league to throw away and thats the only chance I see us, (or Chelsea) for that matter of winning it. I actually think the standard of the league is so poor this year the likes of Villa and ourselves especially are benefitting from it immensley

Stopped reading at this point. It's just a sheer contradiction of terms to say that the league is so poor this season and that it's United's to throw away, when we are top of the league above them. Surely if the league is so poor, then United would be a step beyond us already, as they'd be sweeping teams aside as if they were nothing? They are dropping points, so are we. We beat them and Chelsea, hence that is why we are top. Simple as that. The table doesn't lie. We are better than them at this point. End of.

Emerald that is such a simplistic way of looking at it I'd be surprised if you actually believe that. It doesn't take into any consideration whatsover where you've played on the road and against whom you've lined up.

IMHO it is a poorer Premiership this season than in previous years. Feck me if Mourinho's Chelsea which won the title two years running, or Arsenal's "invincible" team of four seasons back, or one of man Utd's better teams was in it, it'd be all over bar the shouting by now.

I don't know about it being "Man Utd's to lose", but there's absolutely no question they've had the hardest games up to now. It's not being disloyal, or a knee jerker to say that, it's simply stating the obvious.

To be honest man u do have it to lose really,they have played ourselves,Chelsea,Arsenal,Man City and Everton all away and are there abouts with a game in hand.I think Villa are gonna end up in the top 4 at who's expence i'm not too sure.

Why? Why is it they who have it to loose? Because we have to go theirs away? So f*cking what? In case you didn't notice, our away form is a lot better than our home form. Even a point against them at OT is sufficient, as a point against Chelsea at home is likewise. If you take more than 3 points off your closest rivals all season, then that's a good job done, as you've accumulated three points on them all. To put it into context, had we beaten United twice last season and won two of the games we drew, we'd have won the league. Ifs and buts, yes; but it goes to show just how much damage losing two games to one of your rivals can do. Already this season we've done United and Chelsea, with the remarkable thing being that we were the first to beat Chelsea at home in four years. If that isn't an indication of improvement, then I don't know what is. TBH, I'm more concerned about our game against Arsenal than I am about going to OT and getting that fabled point.

Yeah we might of well been the first team to beat Chelsea at home in 4 years or whatever but then they got beat in the carling cup at home and then Arsenalat home and there will be more because they ar'nt the force they were at the moment plus if we do win the league this year it will be 1 place above the mancs if we don't win it the mancs win their 18th league title and that doesn't bear thinking of.  

Chelsea aren't the force they were? If anything they've improved their squad. I seriously do not get it why people will constantly cut their own noses off to spite their own faces. People will rather be in awe of the amazing Chelsea and United before the season starts and rule us out of it straight away. But as soon as we look as if we could actually compete with them, people still go into denial. Chelsea are just as strong as what they were under Mourinho, only difference is that Scolari is a more attack-minded manager than he ever was. He was the manager of Brazil FFS. Their mantra was always to score more goals than the opposition, and defense was a secondary thought. Just look at how many goals they've scored this season. Recognize a pattern there? They will leave gaps in their armor and be prone to defeat. Two defeats already at home, almost out of the CL at the group stages, hardly any better than us, are they? They will get beaten again this season and at home, and you can quote me on that. We've as good a chance as ANY of winning this league this season simply because we are as good as any. This defeatist attitude I've been seeing on this forum when we are top of the league and it's almost January is f*cking unbelievable and a disgrace. The press is out to have a dig at us and the manager with their doubts, but the fans too? F*ck right off! If I were to ask half of people on this forum would they have been happy to see us at the top by January, they'd have no doubt laughed but at the same time would say absolutely. Now that we're almost at this stage, I find it bewildering that people are miserable b@stards, and some even wanting the manager sacked.

You have me so wrong on this and my point of view,if you go to some of the other topics on here i have backed our manager and the team and i am off as much as you at the fact everyone is so negative and i am only stating that if we win the league it will the mancs to beat to win the league,that I personally think that chealsea arn't as good under Scholari is just my opinion and i'm a lot more optimstic than most on here that were on the right track.

Sorry, that wasn't directed straight at yourself, I was just continuing on my stance of what I thought of the general consensus that a lot of the posters on the board seem to be taking. Wires can get crossed as a result.

no worries man

[Emerald Red]

All that said we are still top of the league and with a far better squad than Benitez took over 5 years ago.  We have also done it this season without the best striker in the world, and with Torres to come back in the new year we are not dead and buried yet, far from it.

If we beat Arsenal next week, watch general opinion COMPLETELY sway once again in favour of Benitez the 'tactical genius' and in favour of us bringing home number 19 this season.

When you see Madrid having to turn to Ramos, it goes to show that we would have real difficulty replacing Benitez with an equal or better manager at the moment, they are few and far between.  We're top of the league going into Christmas for the first time since Benitez took charge and rotation has largely been binned to the relief of many, why in good fu.ck would you get rid of Benitez now???  Get a clue.

Some good points there John.

I for one would never have believed we would be top of the league without our main goal threat. when Torres comes back it will be like a new signing for us in the second half of the season.

I believe we've seen the best of Chelsea. Their free flowing football, scoring, I just don't think they have another gear. United are stuttering. They've hit top gear more than once this season, and faltered on a few occasions. Arsenal, well, their form speaks for itself. Erratic. Reminds me of our form under Evans at times. As for us, can you say we've even hit top gear once this season in terms of performance? No. I can't. Yet we're there, and without the big guns on several occasions in massive games. Some people just won't give us the credit we deserve, and the amazing thing is, that it's our own so called fans.

[Fo Dne]

All that said we are still top of the league and with a far better squad than Benitez took over 5 years ago.  We have also done it this season without the best striker in the world, and with Torres to come back in the new year we are not dead and buried yet, far from it.

If we beat Arsenal next week, watch general opinion COMPLETELY sway once again in favour of Benitez the 'tactical genius' and in favour of us bringing home number 19 this season.

When you see Madrid having to turn to Ramos, it goes to show that we would have real difficulty replacing Benitez with an equal or better manager at the moment, they are few and far between.  We're top of the league going into Christmas for the first time since Benitez took charge and rotation has largely been binned to the relief of many, why in good fu.ck would you get rid of Benitez now???  Get a clue.

Some good points there John.

I for one would never have believed we would be top of the league without our main goal threat. when Torres comes back it will be like a new signing for us in the second half of the season.

I believe we've seen the best of Chelsea. Their free flowing football, scoring, I just don't think they have another gear. United are stuttering. They've hit top gear more than once this season, and faltered on a few occasions. Arsenal, well, their form speaks for itself. Erratic. Reminds me of our form under Evans at times. As for us, can you say we've even hit top gear once this season in terms of performance? No. I can't. Yet we're there, and without the big guns on several occasions in massive games. Some people just won't give us the credit we deserve, and the amazing thing is, that it's our own so called fans.

[LegBarnes]

I don't think atm its time to change the manager I think its time the manager changed.

OR kick his out end of season.