Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

TBH mick i think the guy on RAWK was just taking the and being a little bit sarcastic ie just saying what the anti rafas would say if we did win this year .

[Thewaykokid]

TBH mick i think the guy on RAWK was just taking the and being a little bit sarcastic ie just saying what the anti rafas would say if we did win this year .

agreed on that one i don't hink anyone can have the right to say that there ever has been or will be a "weak" premiership. Look at the Serie A.....Inter have pretty much already won it, they're 11 points ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont remember the premier league ever being that clear cut so early in season.

[bigmick]

Well to be fair the fitness/injuries thing throws up a couple of points. Firstly and fairly obviously, if all the top teams had had their players available so far then the league would obviously have been stronger. We'd have been stronger with Torres, Chelsea with Drogba, Arsenal marginally so with Walcott etc etc. That said, there's injuries every season so I'm not sure it's THE most significant factor.

My own hunch as far as the top sides are concerned, is that they all have their little bits of stuff going on within the camp which is slightly derailing them. I'm unconvinced for starters that Abrahomvich at Chelsea is still quite as up for it all as he was, and I'm equally unconvinced that Scholari has fully settled in yet. Drogba's heart's clearly not in it, and the net result is Chelsea are weaker IMHo than they have been for a while.

Man Utd have the ongoing Ronaldo saga, and he looks a shadow of the player he was last season. Equally, they have the self inflicted selectorial conondrum up front now they've bought Berbatov.

Arsenal have lost two of their best players in Flamini and Hleb, and also have the William Gallas thing rolling on from week to week.

As far as the top teams go, I think these reasons are more significant than injuries.

[GYBS]

Cant disagree with anything you said their mick - on the point of Abramovich i can really see the guy pulling out soon enough and drogba is on his way out .

[bigmick]

TBH mick i think the guy on RAWK was just taking the and being a little bit sarcastic ie just saying what the anti rafas would say if we did win this year .

I knew he attempting sarcasm, he was also trying to demonstrate his wanton superfannery by launching a pre-emptive strike against any potential "Rafa bashers".

Like some on here occasionally, he doesn't realise that it is possible to have a random thought about football and it not automatically be a snipe at the manager.

Say the Champions League is easy for english clubs (which has now been accepted to such an extent that they're considering changing the rules to take it into account) and it's a bash. Say that this isn't a vintage Premiership in terms of quality, and ditto.

[GYBS]

TBH mick i dont think any of your posts have been any swipes at Rafa and would find it strange if someone did think that but i expect some will .

[Leonmc0708]

I saw an interview with MON last week I think and he was saying the prem is very strong this season

He's wrong though Rushie 

It show theres two ways of looking at it though, I think a few managers have made similar comments.

Well what do a few Premier LEague managers know that us on here dont ?

Ignore them.

Listen to Stu.

He is the king.

[taff]

Say the Champions League is easy for english clubs (which has now been accepted to such an extent that they're considering changing the rules to take it into account) and it's a bash. Say that this isn't a vintage Premiership in terms of quality, and ditto.

Im confused. The champions league is easy for teams  from a league which is weaker than it was last season.

My take on it is Man utd and Arsenal led the way then Chelsea joined them and became a force and now we have truly joined them as well, but in the meantime other clubs have become stronger as well. Benitez has closed the gap but the difficulty is the higher up you go the harder it becomes to improve and we are seeing some form of equilibrium between the top four.  The rest of the teams are closing the gap but the more they climb the harder it becomes as we have experienced since Rafa took over and from the occasions when Houllier had us up there.  I suspect this is what Villa will experience over the next few seasons when their fans will argue about the money available to the top four etc etc.  In fact I reckon the Villa newkit forum or whatever they have will have the same debates that we were having in 2006.

The strength of the premiership is such that there are about ten clubs who are mentally in a relegation battle now before xmas which I have never seen before.  Good old West Ham normally would have come and tried some football instead of defending for their lives.  The fact we are top after drawing some crucial games should act as a indicator that we are either

1.  Amazingly lucky and everybody else is playing rubbish

2. Everybody is finding it intense this season

Whatever way you look at it we are still top.  IMO I go for a intense looking League but we have dropped points that we might regret but luck is on our side for some reason.  But it cant be just coincidence that everybody else are in the positions they  find themselves

[Bad Bob]

I think people might secretly be a little concerned that if we win it, as the fella on RAWK said, the manager will get the "ah but it was only a weak Premiership anyway". That may or may not happen, but regardless, it is a weak Premiership anyway

About that concern, not that I'm concerned if someone will say the text in bold:

Weakness or strongness of the other teams didn't help one iota Rafa when he finnished fourth, weakness or strongness of other teams didn't stop some people from pointing out we were 9 points off the first position and from saying that is dissapointing. Weakness or strongness of other teams, didn't count so that people said "Rafa must challenge this season or be off".

So entering in the equation the weakness or strongness of other teams now we have more points than them and insisting on it, is quite strange, since that parameter didn't seem to matter in the past to say a season was dissapointing. It seems to me anyone saying that (which still hasn't happened) would be someone trying too hard to not giving Rafa the credit he'd deserve for winning the league.

Don't be so sure, mate.  A few fringe elements are clearly moving in that direction already.

and don`t post me about being first in the league. It is not because of his briliance,it is because  united and chelsea are shiiit so far.

BTW, Mick, this kind of thing I've quoted above is I think at the heart of the 'superfan' issue you're frustrated about.  See, everybody knows you'll be over the moon and full of praise for everyone involved with the thing if we win the title in May...including Rafa.  It's your way and 99% of us respect and appreciate that (even if the odd stalker won't see it).  That's why you shouldn't take the happy clappers frustrations at moaners personally because virtually no one is directing them at you.  Instead, they're directed at the lad I've quoted above and his ilk.  The ones that crawl out of the woodwork to have a pop for a few weeks before getting bored and moving on to the latest novelty.  While they're with us though, we get all manner of rubbish spewed about clueless Rafa, tactically-inept Rafa, lucky Rafa, spiteful Rafa, egotistical Rafa and so on and so on.  Since these posters are a constant drone in the background of this place I'm fair certain that there'll be a few around come May and, even if we manage to hoist the silverware, I expect that at least 1 or 2 of them will suggest we got lucky.  It won't be you, though, and we recognize that so I'll ask you in advance not to take it personally if a few 'superfans' do take umbrage with the moaners come season's end.

[GYBS]

Thats a gret last part of your post Bob and what really annoys me about certian posters and that one in particular is a right pain who seems to be only here to be constant negative about our club .

[taff]

It would be insane to say that Im happy with the draws we have had, it hurt badly to be honest and I am amazed with the situation regarding Keane although I think the player and Rafa are at a low point in this debate.

But having supported the club for over thirty odd years and got ingrossed in the culture and the way that Liverpool fans are and were different I cannot in any way indulge in or suppport the stick that Rafa and some players have had on the internet and in the ground.  Now some might call this happy clapping or whatever but I think its just our way and has stood us in good stead over the years.  I have players I dont like and others I support even if deep down I know they are in the wrong but its just the way it is.  I was saddend to see Houllier go even though I knew it was the right thing and IMO Benitez is nowhere near that critical situation in fact I am still convinced that he will take us to the promised land.

However if the situation ever arose that I thought he definitely couldnt and the club needed a change then I would support that, with a heavy heart but support it I would.

[Sabre]

BTW, Mick, this kind of thing I've quoted above is I think at the heart of the 'superfan' issue you're frustrated about.  See, everybody knows you'll be over the moon and full of praise for everyone involved with the thing if we win the title in May...including Rafa.  It's your way and 99% of us respect and appreciate that (even if the odd stalker won't see it).  That's why you shouldn't take the happy clappers frustrations at moaners personally because virtually no one is directing them at you.  Instead, they're directed at the lad I've quoted above and his ilk.  The ones that crawl out of the woodwork to have a pop for a few weeks before getting bored and moving on to the latest novelty.  While they're with us though, we get all manner of rubbish spewed about clueless Rafa, tactically-inept Rafa, lucky Rafa, spiteful Rafa, egotistical Rafa and so on and so on.  Since these posters are a constant drone in the background of this place I'm fair certain that there'll be a few around come May and, even if we manage to hoist the silverware, I expect that at least 1 or 2 of them will suggest we got lucky.  It won't be you, though, and we recognize that so I'll ask you in advance not to take it personally if a few 'superfans' do take umbrage with the moaners come season's end.

Spot on, and I highlight a disclaimer Mick should bear in mind when he reads the superfans or the happy clappers.

[Leonmc0708]

IS this now the Big Mick love in thread or what ?

[woof woof !]

TBH I'm completely stumped when it comes to Rafa's apparent "attitude" to Robbie Keane. Having agreed a £20 million fee for the fella you would expect Rafa to be going all out to support, encourage and get the best from the player. Instead it sometimes seems that Rafa's been landed with a player that he didn't really want in the first place, almost shades of Mourinho and Schevchenko. Is it a case of Rafa expecting Keane to do a Torres and immediately step up to the plate and having failed to do so he's now on Rafa's sh'it list ? .

Not noted for putting an arm around players I'm wondering if Rafa has got it wrong on this one, not defending Keane here, but the world and it's dog expected better things from Keane at LFC, whats gone wrong ? surely Rafa bears some responsibility for it ? .

[Sabre]

IS this now the Big Mick love in thread or what ?

No, no love involved. It's making sure the debates on here won't be tough.

Without Bigmick the Pro Rafa debate, the rotation debate and every debate would be easily won. But the moment the fécker decides to take personally our points, he starts the defence of it, and the discussion come much tougher. Then the posters who we really wanted to answer back hide behind Mick's position, and thus the battles are long and complex.

It's important he knows most of our comments aren't aimed to him for the Happy Clappy Camp. As for the love to Bigmick, I've always appreciated him so there's no news in that front. 


Disclaimer: This post was tongue in cheek. There's not a happy clappy camp with tents, maps on the table, and battle plans.