Liverpool FC Forum

[we all dream...]

Oh happy to admit he has flaws - every single manager does , no one is perfect . But also happy to state he knows more about the game and our players than any fan on here . And will happily back the guy while he is liverpool manager and will try to understand why he does things or doesnt do things .

There is nothing wrong with the fans that blindly back him, different people offer support in different ways.
Some get frustrated far easier, i am sort of in the middle ground, which sounds like i am sitting on the fence a bit, perhaps i am.
What i mean is, i can clearly see that Rafa has restablished us as a top top side in europe again.
Before he came we were in the quarters just once, since we have been in semi's, lost a final and won a final, thats outstanding.
I can see he has brought in some world class players, Torres and Mascherano.
But i think he still hasnt learned that he cant get away with playing some of his poorer signings in games and still is far too negative in some games.
Hull at home, and we played 4-5-1, now thats not that bad if the one is Torres...someone who can stretch the team, but not what we should be playing with Kuyt as the lone striker.

To make things worse he doesnt then make the right changes, i know he may have forgotten more than i know argument, maybe he also forgot he had a 20 million pound striker on the bench.

Stubborness is costing us, i am convinced of that.

The fact that the other teams have not taken advantage of this is all we can be thankful for over the last month or so.

Surely your argument should be he shouldnt be signing these poor players in the first place....?

I have been worried with some of the decisions recently... im looking at things in the present and near future... we are looking ok im happy, we are not playing brilliant but we are showing the potential.

I believe Rafa will turn it around and push us up the league and get us back into that title challenge... hang on a minute.

[Fo Dne]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

Ah right back to the insults i see then .

And when will we be out of the title race then seeing as we are sat top at the moment and still without the best striker in europe/world ?

I haven't got a crystal ball lad, all am saying to ya is we won't win the league.

Simple as that.

Come the end of the season though you won't sit there and say, "Stu was right, how did he know?" you'll go "give the manager more time, if only this, if only that, you didn't know for sure, it was just a guess" and all the otehr rubbish mongs excuses.

If you havent got a crystal ball how come you know we wont win the league then ?

Because we aren't good enough and the manager isn't.

Are you really that stupid you need me to repeat it?



Let me guess, the next post from you will be well why aren't we good enough or do you know more than the manager?

[we all dream...]

what a first class k.unt 'Fo Dne' is. I'm really begining to hate his guts. Thats just my opinion though. fk'ing manc fan coming on here stiring sh!t up like he does.

[GYBS]

Its a simple question Stu ? surely you can answer that ? no ?

crowd knew better on saturday,FACT.  90 percent of people would have 2 strikers,one holding midfielder. 90 percent of people would put third striker at half time if it`s still 2-2. And I think that we would won that game. SOMETHING THAT TITLE CONTENDERS MUST DO,take some risk,cause every game is a must win game,especially at home.

So it is OBVIOUS that a lot of people would do better.

it was not one of the performances where you can say,WE WeRE GREAT,BUT UNLUCKY,cause we were rubish,just like about 50 times at home under Benitez. WILL HE EVER LEARN?

Im sorry but why is it FACT that the crowd knew better ? how do you know if we played they way the crowd wanted we would of definatly won - we could of easily lost ? so how is it FACT ?

And im sorry but the players who played out on that pitch were and are good enough to beat Hull or whoever but they didnt play well enough - thats the players who take responsibilty as soon as that whistle goes .

no. how come our supeiror players can not beat Hull,W Ham,Fulham,Stoke? MAYBE,there was not real tactic for breaking 10 men defense? JUST FUKCIN MAYBE,eh?

cause the players didnt play well enough on that day - simple as that .

But its not that simple though surely.

Otherwise Rafa could just pick the side and not bother even being there, there are loads of other factors.
Tactics, substitutions etc.

In no way is it down to just the players that we havent managed to break these teams down.

Or maybe some credit could also be given to the opposition as well ? Individual mistakes as well and outstanding perfomances from the some of the players from the other team ?

[Leonmc0708]

Unfortunately I do agree with a lot you have to say, not because I don't want to aagree with you but becasue what you are saying is pretty damming on our club...

"Rafa Benitez will never lead Liverpool to a title with his current style of management. Of that I can absoloutely gaurantee." This is what annoys me tho.. you cannot gaurantee it.

You think it wont happen... and you are allowed this opinion and in all honesty I ejnoy your post they have been very incitfull and thought provoking. But at the end of the day they are your opinion, and you believe them because you believe in what you are saying the information that you have.

It is difficult becasue you are fighting against a current of happy clappers who are excited about our prospects this season. I for one am not questioning your support.. you are a die hard fan. People question what you say becasue it isn't what they wana here...

I also agree about Guthrie and Warnock, id much rather have warnock at left back... but if he was, everyone on here would be saying yeh hes young, english, cheap... but he isnt good enough for a title winning team... buy someone. swings and roundabouts sometimes more like a merry go round.

Ok, in football you can very rarely be 100% sure, as thats the beauty of the game. Liverpool could batter a Confernce side 999 out of a 1000 but they could always lose that one game, no matter how good they are, be it luck or whatever.

Now, what I am saying is the constant mistakes and gambles Benitez does will cost us far to many points to challenge for the league title. Mark my words, this club (baring exceptionally fortunate circumstances) will not win this league. If those circumstances arise and we do, then great stuff, I'll be made up, even then I won't agree its the managers doing.

If the manager stops acting like a fool, does the right things, stops the stupid signings, dedicates more time to bringin in good youth players, and stops trying to be to clever, allowing his best team to play against sides and realising that one win and one loss is better than two draws then I will again start to back him.

With regards to Guthrie and Warnock, I don't think either are really good enough to be honest, but as second and fourth choice they are more than good enough. Also, I would much rather have those two there who cost us nothing than wasting £14,000,000 on Lucas and Dossena who are rubbish.

Its more the waste of money that annoys me when we already had better. I also don't like Benitez buy a centre mid approach. He buys to many, he bought Lucas and Mascherano when we already had a good central midfield, why wasn't the money used elsewhere?

What LEvel ?

What Team ?

What LEague ?

[GYBS]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

Ah right back to the insults i see then .

And when will we be out of the title race then seeing as we are sat top at the moment and still without the best striker in europe/world ?

I haven't got a crystal ball lad, all am saying to ya is we won't win the league.

Simple as that.

Come the end of the season though you won't sit there and say, "Stu was right, how did he know?" you'll go "give the manager more time, if only this, if only that, you didn't know for sure, it was just a guess" and all the otehr rubbish mongs excuses.

If you havent got a crystal ball how come you know we wont win the league then ?

Because we aren't good enough and the manager isn't.

Are you really that stupid you need me to repeat it?



Let me guess, the next post from you will be well why aren't we good enough or do you know more than the manager?

So how come we are top then ? How come we have beaten both Man Utd and Chelsea if we arent good enough ?

[Fo Dne]

So do fans know more than managers now ? Fans see the players every single day during training ? Fans get the inputs from the coaches ? Is the crowd a better judge than managers ?

Who knows more? Forty thousand people or one man?

Quantity doesnt always beat quality . One qualified and proven manager both domestically in various countries and in europe is expect knows more about his own set of players and the game they are player than 40 thousand fans . He is the guy that see thoses players on a daily basis and sees what happens during the week not the 40 thousand guys who see for 90 mins.

So Lucas is a fantastic player?

Keane's worth £20,000,000?

Dossena's worth £7,000,000?

Lucas and Dossena are better than Guthrie and Warnock?

Josemi is a good player?

Kromkamp's a good player?

Nunez is a good player?

Ngog's even a footballer?

Ngog's worth £1,500,000 with add ons but Owen's not worth a £3,000,000 public bid?

Leaving Lucas on the pitch ahead of Xabi?

Starting Lucas in games we need to win?

Leaving your only decent striker on the bench in a game you need to win?

Playing Gerrard upfront?

Playing Kuyt upfront with a midfielder playing as a drop off striker?

Playing your best (and worst) players out of position?

Spending £11,000,000 on rubbish like Babel then not even playing him...

Building a very strong and quality footballing team then dismanteling it starting from sctratch and failing to replace the quality you once had...

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards?

Yeah Rafa knows best. Thats without even thinking about it.

So Lucas is a fantastic player? Who says he is ?

Keane's worth £20,000,000? No one believes he is but its the price we had to pay , i bet rafa didnt want to pay it

Dossena's worth £7,000,000? same as above .

Lucas and Dossena are better than Guthrie and Warnock? Yes

Josemi is a good player? Had a decent start when he arrived then went poor and got shipped out

Kromkamp's a good player? Only with us for 6 months and enabled us to get rid of josemi. had a few decent games

Nunez is a good player?  Do you think rafa really really wanted him ? was pretty much forced on us and the guy hardly played

Ngog's even a footballer? Yes he is .

Ngog's worth £1,500,000 with add ons but Owen's not worth a £3,000,000 public bid? Not going to get Owen for 3 mil in a million years and not when we bought Ngog

Leaving Lucas on the pitch ahead of Xabi? Lucas is good enough

Starting Lucas in games we need to win? Needed to win against PSV when he played and we did - have we lost because lUcas has played ? when ?

Leaving your only decent striker on the bench in a game you need to win? The guy is not scoring at the moment .

Playing Gerrard upfront? The guy can play anywhere and had a great season playing just off torres up front last season

Playing Kuyt upfront with a midfielder playing as a drop off striker? Kuyt is playing better than any other options in the team at the moment

Playing your best (and worst) players out of position? Who ?

Spending £11,000,000 on rubbish like Babel then not even playing him...
Has played him plenty of times and the guy has scored and played his part in crucial wins
Building a very strong and quality footballing team then dismanteling it starting from sctratch and failing to replace the quality you once had... replaced sissoko with masher ?!? kewell with reira ?!? Crouch/bellamy with Torres

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards? Taking them backwards ? or maybe the other teams improved at a great rate than us ?

Yeah Rafa knows best. Thats without even thinking about it

[Ola Mr Benitez]

Stu - I have to agree with a lot of your points, Rafa does make decisions that most supporters would not agree with but now is simply not the time to get rid.

We are top of the league and ended up top of the Champions League group as well.  I don't think you can just put that down to the opposition not being at their strongest.

We are doing something right, whether it will be enough only time will tell, but lets not sack the guy when he is having his best season as Liverpool Manager

[Fo Dne]

what a first class k.unt 'Fo Dne' is. I'm really begining to hate his guts. Thats just my opinion though. fk'ing manc fan coming on here stiring sh!t up like he does.

[GYBS]

So do fans know more than managers now ? Fans see the players every single day during training ? Fans get the inputs from the coaches ? Is the crowd a better judge than managers ?

Who knows more? Forty thousand people or one man?

Quantity doesnt always beat quality . One qualified and proven manager both domestically in various countries and in europe is expect knows more about his own set of players and the game they are player than 40 thousand fans . He is the guy that see thoses players on a daily basis and sees what happens during the week not the 40 thousand guys who see for 90 mins.

So Lucas is a fantastic player?

Keane's worth £20,000,000?

Dossena's worth £7,000,000?

Lucas and Dossena are better than Guthrie and Warnock?

Josemi is a good player?

Kromkamp's a good player?

Nunez is a good player?

Ngog's even a footballer?

Ngog's worth £1,500,000 with add ons but Owen's not worth a £3,000,000 public bid?

Leaving Lucas on the pitch ahead of Xabi?

Starting Lucas in games we need to win?

Leaving your only decent striker on the bench in a game you need to win?

Playing Gerrard upfront?

Playing Kuyt upfront with a midfielder playing as a drop off striker?

Playing your best (and worst) players out of position?

Spending £11,000,000 on rubbish like Babel then not even playing him...

Building a very strong and quality footballing team then dismanteling it starting from sctratch and failing to replace the quality you once had...

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards?

Yeah Rafa knows best. Thats without even thinking about it.

So Lucas is a fantastic player? Who says he is ?

Keane's worth £20,000,000? No one believes he is but its the price we had to pay , i bet rafa didnt want to pay it

Dossena's worth £7,000,000? same as above .

Lucas and Dossena are better than Guthrie and Warnock? Yes

Josemi is a good player? Had a decent start when he arrived then went poor and got shipped out

Kromkamp's a good player? Only with us for 6 months and enabled us to get rid of josemi. had a few decent games

Nunez is a good player?  Do you think rafa really really wanted him ? was pretty much forced on us and the guy hardly played

Ngog's even a footballer? Yes he is .

Ngog's worth £1,500,000 with add ons but Owen's not worth a £3,000,000 public bid? Not going to get Owen for 3 mil in a million years and not when we bought Ngog

Leaving Lucas on the pitch ahead of Xabi? Lucas is good enough

Starting Lucas in games we need to win? Needed to win against PSV when he played and we did - have we lost because lUcas has played ? when ?

Leaving your only decent striker on the bench in a game you need to win? The guy is not scoring at the moment .

Playing Gerrard upfront? The guy can play anywhere and had a great season playing just off torres up front last season

Playing Kuyt upfront with a midfielder playing as a drop off striker? Kuyt is playing better than any other options in the team at the moment

Playing your best (and worst) players out of position? Who ?

Spending £11,000,000 on rubbish like Babel then not even playing him...
Has played him plenty of times and the guy has scored and played his part in crucial wins
Building a very strong and quality footballing team then dismanteling it starting from sctratch and failing to replace the quality you once had... replaced sissoko with masher ?!? kewell with reira ?!? Crouch/bellamy with Torres

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards? Taking them backwards ? or maybe the other teams improved at a great rate than us ?

Yeah Rafa knows best. Thats without even thinking about it

Well done - you really did well in debating then - by posting a smiley . your best work yet

[GYBS]

Surely if we are currently top of the league coming into Xmas also after beating the supposed two best teams in the prem we are good enough to win the prem - if not how the hell are we top ?

[Leonmc0708]

what a first class k.unt 'Fo Dne' is. I'm really begining to hate his guts. Thats just my opinion though. fk'ing manc fan coming on here stiring sh!t up like he does.

What LEvel ?

What Team ?

What LEague ?

[supersub]

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards?

backwards from where

[Fo Dne]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

Ah right back to the insults i see then .

And when will we be out of the title race then seeing as we are sat top at the moment and still without the best striker in europe/world ?

I haven't got a crystal ball lad, all am saying to ya is we won't win the league.

Simple as that.

Come the end of the season though you won't sit there and say, "Stu was right, how did he know?" you'll go "give the manager more time, if only this, if only that, you didn't know for sure, it was just a guess" and all the otehr rubbish mongs excuses.

If you havent got a crystal ball how come you know we wont win the league then ?

Because we aren't good enough and the manager isn't.

Are you really that stupid you need me to repeat it?



Let me guess, the next post from you will be well why aren't we good enough or do you know more than the manager?

So how come we are top then ? How come we have beaten both Man Utd and Chelsea if we arent good enough ?

We aren't even half way through the season ya tool

We beat United with a lucky goal and mis hit shot and Chelsea with a deflection...

Come back at the end of the season. We'll see who's right. I say we won't win the league, you say I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm saying that.

So at the end of the season when we don't win the league, you can then apologise and say "Stu, I am a numbnutz, you were right all along, we weren't good enough".

If we win the league (even by luck), I'll gladly post a naked picture of myself saying Sorry Rafa Benitez! Hows that?

[Sabre]

What LEvel ?

What Team ?

What LEague ?

The League

Disclaimer:

HOULIHANS VC* *3 points deducted for misconduct

Houlihans VC is NOT Stu's team.