Liverpool FC Forum

[Fo Dne]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

[Petar]

Many of you are crazy! Rafael Benitez screwwed our chance for winning the title,when we did not beat stoke,fulham,west ham,hull. If we won at least 3 games of these 4(which we should),we would be in chance. Now it is very difficult cause further mistakes are very likeable.
Really,he has so many weaknesess as a manager...

Buying players-he is absolute joke in that category... I don`t know what he is looking when he wants new player. I think that he doesn`t want good,skillfull player. In first place,it is workrate,which  can not be our only force if we want to win the league.

Substitutions-well,obvioulsy...

Tactics-How he can be the best tactician in the world if he can not realise how to beat 10 men who parked the bus. for four seasons.HOW? I would for example HAVE 2 FORWARDS AGAINST HULL AND WOULDN`T HAVE 2 HOLDING MIDFIELDERS AND THAT`S JUST A START!


STUBBORN-yes and too much


rotation-he don`t use it anymore and we are better team. I wonder what would happen if he could get rid of other weaknessess

Yes u are right, our chances are screwed, we're only top of the league.

Be realistic... has scolari and fergie thrown away their chances by getting beat by us and drawing with westham and spurs...etc? yes, in your thinking... so where does that leave us, oh yeh, no one is going to win the league this year because we have all drawn to many games for anyone to win the league.

Think about it.

Chelsea and Man U will raise their form. We will raise it when we are out of the title race. FACT

[GYBS]

So do fans know more than managers now ? Fans see the players every single day during training ? Fans get the inputs from the coaches ? Is the crowd a better judge than managers ?

Who knows more? Forty thousand people or one man?

Quantity doesnt always beat quality . One qualified and proven manager both domestically in various countries and in europe is expect knows more about his own set of players and the game they are player than 40 thousand fans . He is the guy that see thoses players on a daily basis and sees what happens during the week not the 40 thousand guys who see for 90 mins.

[GYBS]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

Ah right back to the insults i see then .

And when will we be out of the title race then seeing as we are sat top at the moment and still without the best striker in europe/world ?

[Ace Ventura]

I bet in a number of years time (however long it is until we have a different manager) the people who blindly justify virtually everything he does with - well he is the manager he knows more than the average Joe, he gets to see stuff in training that we dont etc, will happily point out his flaws.

DISCLAIMER :- i am not advocating we change our manager, merely pointing out that people wont even consider that he makes mistakes and doesnt appear to learn from them.


It sort of happened with Houllier until the last season, once he has gone though and someone else has come in and proved we are actually a top side regardless of who is manager then we will get a clearer picture on peoples actual opinion, rather than the OTT blind loyalty we get by some now.

[Petar]

Its a simple question Stu ? surely you can answer that ? no ?

crowd knew better on saturday,FACT.  90 percent of people would have 2 strikers,one holding midfielder. 90 percent of people would put third striker at half time if it`s still 2-2. And I think that we would won that game. SOMETHING THAT TITLE CONTENDERS MUST DO,take some risk,cause every game is a must win game,especially at home.

So it is OBVIOUS that a lot of people would do better.

it was not one of the performances where you can say,WE WeRE GREAT,BUT UNLUCKY,cause we were rubish,just like about 50 times at home under Benitez. WILL HE EVER LEARN?

[GYBS]

Oh happy to admit he has flaws - every single manager does , no one is perfect . But also happy to state he knows more about the game and our players than any fan on here . And will happily back the guy while he is liverpool manager and will try to understand why he does things or doesnt do things .

[Roger Red Hat]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

can you not have a decent conversation without insulting anyone who disagrees with your opinions?

[GYBS]

Its a simple question Stu ? surely you can answer that ? no ?

crowd knew better on saturday,FACT.  90 percent of people would have 2 strikers,one holding midfielder. 90 percent of people would put third striker at half time if it`s still 2-2. And I think that we would won that game. SOMETHING THAT TITLE CONTENDERS MUST DO,take some risk,cause every game is a must win game,especially at home.

So it is OBVIOUS that a lot of people would do better.

it was not one of the performances where you can say,WE WeRE GREAT,BUT UNLUCKY,cause we were rubish,just like about 50 times at home under Benitez. WILL HE EVER LEARN?

Im sorry but why is it FACT that the crowd knew better ? how do you know if we played they way the crowd wanted we would of definatly won - we could of easily lost ? so how is it FACT ?

And im sorry but the players who played out on that pitch were and are good enough to beat Hull or whoever but they didnt play well enough - thats the players who take responsibilty as soon as that whistle goes .

[Petar]

I bet in a number of years time (however long it is until we have a different manager) the people who blindly justify virtually everything he does with - well he is the manager he knows more than the average Joe, he gets to see stuff in training that we dont etc, will happily point out his flaws.

DISCLAIMER :- i am not advocating we change our manager, merely pointing out that people wont even consider that he makes mistakes and doesnt appear to learn from them.


It sort of happened with Houllier until the last season, once he has gone though and someone else has come in and proved we are actually a top side regardless of who is manager then we will get a clearer picture on peoples actual opinion, rather than the OTT blind loyalty we get by some now.

nice,intelligent post. People think that we would not survive after Rafa goes. The fact is,we are big club,worlds top 5,the best managers would want to come,best players and that is FACT.

I am asking you,Rafas defenders...

Will you sack him if we do not win the league this season?

[GYBS]

Infact, ya not even worth talking to. A monkey has more intelligence.

can you not have a decent conversation without insulting anyone who disagrees with your opinions?

No he cant - he is incapable.

[Fo Dne]

So do fans know more than managers now ? Fans see the players every single day during training ? Fans get the inputs from the coaches ? Is the crowd a better judge than managers ?

Who knows more? Forty thousand people or one man?

Quantity doesnt always beat quality . One qualified and proven manager both domestically in various countries and in europe is expect knows more about his own set of players and the game they are player than 40 thousand fans . He is the guy that see thoses players on a daily basis and sees what happens during the week not the 40 thousand guys who see for 90 mins.

So Lucas is a fantastic player?

Keane's worth £20,000,000?

Dossena's worth £7,000,000?

Lucas and Dossena are better than Guthrie and Warnock?

Josemi is a good player?

Kromkamp's a good player?

Nunez is a good player?

Ngog's even a footballer?

Ngog's worth £1,500,000 with add ons but Owen's not worth a £3,000,000 public bid?

Leaving Lucas on the pitch ahead of Xabi?

Starting Lucas in games we need to win?

Leaving your only decent striker on the bench in a game you need to win?

Playing Gerrard upfront?

Playing Kuyt upfront with a midfielder playing as a drop off striker?

Playing your best (and worst) players out of position?

Spending £11,000,000 on rubbish like Babel then not even playing him...

Building a very strong and quality footballing team then dismanteling it starting from sctratch and failing to replace the quality you once had...

Spending £100,000,000 on a team that finish on 82 points and managing to take them backwards?

Yeah Rafa knows best. Thats without even thinking about it.

[we all dream...]

Fair post.

Ok, I concede, you probably don't want Liverpool to lose, but this is the way you act. You cry and cry about Benitez and say how its all going wrong, when its not. I seriously think that you cant make it through the day without taking shots at our manager, its your coping mechanism until we win the league 2 years in the row. Its a bit hard on Rafa when Chelsea, Man United and Arsenal all expect the same. Take this for an example: One of either Liverpool or Chelsea absolutely collapses, does not win anything this year and finishes fourth, what would happen? I would guess that Scolari would definitely be fired whereas (depending on the circumstances of course) Rafa would have a reasonable chance of survival. Which system would you rather? Sure by replacing Rafa you are rid of his weaknesses, but there is no guarantee that whoever replaces him is going to be any good. In fact the players seem to have tremendous respect for Rafa (but I concede what they say in the media may not always be their true opinion).

We do not want to turn into the joke that Newcastle has become over recent years, managers come in where short-term results are valued so highly that there are no incentives to think long-term. If you look at what Benitez is doing, he has improved our team every year, we have a great spine of young players and despite your post I am optimistic about our youth system (though if you want to talk about that in detail start a new thread a voice your opinions).

I guess you have been saying these things for a lot of the season, but why post this thread now? Because you thought you might get more support and jostle for internet position of where you stand on the matter? I guess posting it after good results you would get shouted down just as bad, but your opinion deserves to be shouted down by fans.

Also you say that the teams around us are getting worse, I say take a look at the quality in some of the lower teams this season. Smaller teams are spending more money and the quality of football across the table has improved. I think a more accurate interpretation of the performance of the top four is that other teams are taking points off us because they are improving. Despite that we are in the CL and our league position is a dream, all without the best striker in the world. If you told me that Torres would be injured up until the new year, I would be content with 3-5 points off the lead and qualified to the CL. But you rode the glory of our early results and lost sight of the bigger picture.

Liverpool FC will NEVER win the league with Benitez in charge

This is such a laugh, I call your bluff. If Benitez wins the league before he resigns/retires/is sacked I call that you take a photo of yourself with a big sign saying "I was wrong, forgive me Rafa (and sorry newkit)!" I would not be scared of putting my pride on the line to voice something if I was so sure. Were you not taught from a young age, never say never?


I wonder when you groan first at games, are you first, or somewhere in the middle when still others have faith. At first a few groans grow into a larger collective groan. One person's groan is contagious just as one person's cheer. What would have happened if there was less passion in our YNWA at half-time when we were 3-0 down in Istanbul? Maybe it was not just one person, maybe it was 10, but somewhere a tipping point was breached and the players could not help but be overwhelmed by it. The last thing we need from our fans are groaners. The example above of a game is a small-scale example, a manager's career is a marathon and more is at stake when you decide what kind of supporter you are going to be.

Its a question of character, its a big picture focus, and its something that you need to work on.

In response, do you not think I'm "crying" about Benitez because I can see whats going wrong infront of my own eyes and the fact he keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over and over (peter kays christmas song) Or do you think its simply because I don't want Liverpool to succeed?

Look, if I thought this side was good enough and I thought we genuinely had a chance because we were good enough then I'd be more than happy. But I don't feel we are, I believe that the only chance we have is because United and Chelsea are weaker than in previous seasons and also because they keep failing to take advantage of our slip ups and the amount of luck we've had this season. Lets turn the tables for one second and look at it like this... You're a United fan This weekend Arsenal have Boro away, Liverpool have Hull at home, and Chelsea have West Ham at home. You've got an every improving Spurs side who are starting to get results who are in a completely false position away from home... you're looking at the fixtures there, who's most likely to drop points? All of a sudden, the away draw for United at Spurs looks a very good result (especially as we lost there).

For me this side is potentially very very close to big things. We've got some fantastic players, some very good players and some very poor players. But thats where the problem lies, the poor players are playing to many games. The poor signings are trying to be justified, the manager is trying to prove points by leaving the poor players on the pitch regardless of performance. For me, a Liverpool team with Keane, Torres, Riera, Alonso, Gerrard, Carragher and Reina in can beat any team on their day. Its the other positions around it that worry me. The lack of quality in them is to great so when these players don't play well the other players will not contribute and help pull these lads out of the .

Benitez also has a record comparible to that of Houllier (by statistics, league finishes, points etc). And I feel his dealings in the transfer market are actually ALOT worse. Where he makes alot of ground of on Gerard is his coaching ability and tactical awareness but often he throws those attributes out the window just to massage his own ego.

When a bad player is playing badly like Lucas and the hole ground is chanting for an in form class act like Alonso and he decides because he's the boss he'll bring off Mascherano instead just to get half the grounds backs up it kind of reinforces the believe that he's more interested in showing who's the boss than actually putting the benefits of the team first.

Again leaving Keane out completely, dropping him when he plays well or scores. Its all bad management and not the sort of management that will win you games.

I won't even go into the youth system in any detail. Benitez should be sacked for the way its treated with total disregard. Its not even a part of Liverpool football club anymore.

As for me saying we'll never win a title under Benitez I am 99% sure of it. The only way I can see it is if this season continues to be a freak. Certain sides in the top ten who aren't good enough to be there, good sides fighting for relegation, good teams dropping stupid points, Chelsea finally losing a few at home with massive injury problems even they've struggled to cope with etc etc. Rafa Benitez will never lead Liverpool to a title with his current style of management. Of that I can absoloutely gaurantee. His record so far speaks for itself, we've never even got near. Despite him supposedly improving a 4th placed side every year since he's been here...

Do us a favour though lad, don't even talk to me about support. I've supported the team for years home and away, I know my football as I've learnt more about the game and learnt from people about things the more fault I can see in the game (not just the club) at this level. The more autobiographies I read the more I understand the different types of attitude individual players have.

Again I refere you to Guthrie and Warnock over Lucas and Dossena. £14,000,000 spent, £3,500,000 recouped. I know which two I'd take all day and that for me is the style of manager we've got. Those four dealings in the market sum him up perfectly.

Unfortunately I do agree with a lot you have to say, not because I don't want to aagree with you but becasue what you are saying is pretty damming on our club...

"Rafa Benitez will never lead Liverpool to a title with his current style of management. Of that I can absoloutely gaurantee." This is what annoys me tho.. you cannot gaurantee it.

You think it wont happen... and you are allowed this opinion and in all honesty I ejnoy your post they have been very incitfull and thought provoking. But at the end of the day they are your opinion, and you believe them because you believe in what you are saying the information that you have.

It is difficult becasue you are fighting against a current of happy clappers who are excited about our prospects this season. I for one am not questioning your support.. you are a die hard fan. People question what you say becasue it isn't what they wana here...

I also agree about Guthrie and Warnock, id much rather have warnock at left back... but if he was, everyone on here would be saying yeh hes young, english, cheap... but he isnt good enough for a title winning team... buy someone. swings and roundabouts sometimes more like a merry go round.

[maguskwt]

pointing out the flaws of the manager is one thing... wanting the manager to be out while we're on top of the league is well... delusional... or perhaps just plain stupidity...

[GYBS]

I bet in a number of years time (however long it is until we have a different manager) the people who blindly justify virtually everything he does with - well he is the manager he knows more than the average Joe, he gets to see stuff in training that we dont etc, will happily point out his flaws.

DISCLAIMER :- i am not advocating we change our manager, merely pointing out that people wont even consider that he makes mistakes and doesnt appear to learn from them.


It sort of happened with Houllier until the last season, once he has gone though and someone else has come in and proved we are actually a top side regardless of who is manager then we will get a clearer picture on peoples actual opinion, rather than the OTT blind loyalty we get by some now.

nice,intelligent post. People think that we would not survive after Rafa goes. The fact is,we are big club,worlds top 5,the best managers would want to come,best players and that is FACT.

I am asking you,Rafas defenders...

Will you sack him if we do not win the league this season?

You like using that word FACT dont you when it is infact your opinion and not FACT at all -

which of these bets managers in the world would come to us then ?

Which of these best players in the world would come to us ?


And in answer to your question it would depend on where we finished this season .