Liverpool FC Forum

[Espionage]

I will tell you what are Rafa`s obvious problems.
These are his instructions to players.
Our players must do what Mr Benitez wants. He is careful with every single detail. And because of that players have less freedom. For example,riera,or Babel... If they are on the left wing,there is no chance that they will go to the right wing if Benitez doesn`t want it. It is like they have to ask him what to do in every single occasion. It is connected with his ego,I think... He doesn`t want to win the league like Wenger,or Ferguson,or 95 percent of other coaches(put the best 11 and tell them to play their best football).

As I said 100 times,Liverpool played some really quality football when Rafa gave players freedom. That is happening every season,but sadly,when we are out of the title race. He needs to sort his ego out if we want this league title

This is exactly the type of post i am talking about. Your whole point is ENTIRELY speculative on account of it being about Rafa's ego and on you KNOWING when the manager gives his players freedom, and when he doesn't!?!? Despite this you state it in a "matter of fact" way as if you have just written the bare faced facts. Too many posters voice their opinions in exactly the same way and that's why this place is a walking talking argument.

On Xbox Live you can block out the idiots that talk trash on the head-mic. If only we could set that up here coz there are lot of posters who's opinions I hold in high regard on here, on it's day this is a cracking board to talk football but you need a garbage truck to sift through the dross.

I have been away for a while with exams and the like but if this guys posts are all like this I am glad that I have steered clear of them.

That is one of the worst posts I have ever read. Making a point requires evidence and support, you seem to create your own.

Ever thought of being an investigative journalist?

[Lando_Griffin]

Top of the league and complaining... I guess it was to be expected. Personally I would be happy if Rafa stays here for another 10 years and that opinion wont change.

I'll take a page out of Stu's book here: "form is temporary, class is permanent"

Rafa is not going to forget how to run his team, he is only going to get better. Rafa is class, no matter what short-term form shows. If we replace him we will lose everything we have built, and a betting man would bet on Gerrard finishing his career without that premier league medal. Maybe the current strangle hold that the top 4 of the English league has on European football is because of the relative stability of the managers.

Just give it a rest

Four nearly five years is short term?

Ok mate yeah!

I am just glad that you are not in charge, give Rafa his 10 year contract now so I can rest easy.

But seriously, we are a big club with a top manager (not just a top coach) and we would be stupid to mess with what is showing progress. You know, I dont think that you would even want Liverpool to win this year, you would take more pleasure from watching it crumble and not having to eat bitter humble pie. Don't worry, its a coping mechanism and many people on here use it to manage their expectations of their club.

No one doubts your knowledge of footy (some might disagree with some opinions) but you would have a better case for these arguments if they were not just after bitter results. Once you learn to stay on top of your emotions you will get more respect as a poster, because dooming and glooming at a time like this just reeks of someone who needs a punching bag for christmas.

Blow off your steam somewhere else

Correct.

[bigmick]

Look, for all those who get their knickers collectively in a twist (not the last couple of posters) each time somebody says they are disappointed with a result, a decision, or a signing. VERY FEW PEOPLE, INFACT TWO OR THREE FROM WHAT I CAN SEE ARE SAYING WE SHOULD GET RID OF THE MANAGER.

There really isn't any need for the outpouring of abuse, grief, ridicule etc you get each time there is a disenting voice. OF COURSE WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE TITLE RACE, WE'RE STILL FECKING TOP FFS!!!!! NOBODY IS SAYING THAT WE ARE!!!!!!!!

All that some people are saying is that we are giving ourselves a mountain to climb by keep drawing at home. Some people think we should have either played a striker from the outset on Saturday, or at the very least brought one on as sub. It really isn't that much of a revolutionary theory, why do some people think it is subversive to talk of such things?

Why must the forum be a war zone absolutely all of the time? If somebody makes the point that despite being top we  aren't playing that well, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY FOLLOW THAT THEY ARE A TOTAL C...  They are simply telling the truth, get over it people FFS. Similarly, if somebody suggests that given the fact that they've already played all the best teams away, the Mancs are looking dangerous, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY SUPPORT MAN U!!!!!!

I suggested it wasn't a strong Premiership earlier on (I also added that I didn't give a feck as long as long as we won it, and that I agreed that it was exciting) and feck me talk about a reaction I got. All of a sudden I was suggesting all sorts of blasphemous thoughts.

I agree people need to chill out big style, but it isn't the moaners it's the bovver boys who try and jump on any dissenting opinion who need to take a chill pill. The one and only aspect of our normal season which I'm missing now we're challenging is that everybody is too hyped up. It's like a fecking pack of dogs geeing each other up sometimes I swear   


We're all happy that we're top. We all think we can play better. We're all glad each time the Mancs and Chelsea feck up. We all think we have a better team than we did five years ago, we all know that Dirk Kuyt runs around a lot. We agree on many things. Chill.

[stapo1000]

i can only imagine how the mindset of some players is affected by rafa's management of the team.

Examples:

Insua - has a great game vs blackburn- dropped for the next 2 for dossena.

Babel - is bought for 12.5mil and played out of position and then dropped. Rafa promises that the best is to come from babel and despite him getting the better of vidic and terry in games where he had limited time to make an impact, he remains a player who only gets 15mins at the end of each.

El Zhar - never starts a league or cl game but is preferred ahead of babel and keane to be brought on when we need a goal.

Agger - Milan and Madrid want him but he cant get a game even though he was first choice for 2 seasons and rarely put a foot wrong.

Alonso - One of the first names on the first sheet for 4 years and rafa tries to replace him with gareth barry.

Keane - is never allowed to finish a game and after one of his best games for us vs psv he's left on the bench for 90mins for the 2nd consecutive time vs hull.

I fail to see how you can get a positive response from players after this sort of treatment. There are several other examples (finnan, crouch, cisse, sinama.....) of how rafa has inexplicably dropped players or rested players or rotated players or whatever he likes to call it. This kind of management can only have a players confidence in tatters.

[Petar]

As I said 100 times

in only 96 posts?

in my life,eh?

[Quadrophenia]

i can only imagine how the mindset of some players is affected by rafa's management of the team.

Examples:

Insua - has a great game vs blackburn- dropped for the next 2 for dossena.

Babel - is bought for 12.5mil and played out of position and then dropped. Rafa promises that the best is to come from babel and despite him getting the better of vidic and terry in games where he had limited time to make an impact, he remains a player who only gets 15mins at the end of each.

El Zhar - never starts a league or cl game but is preferred ahead of babel and keane to be brought on when we need a goal.

Agger - Milan and Madrid want him but he cant get a game even though he was first choice for 2 seasons and rarely put a foot wrong.

Alonso - One of the first names on the first sheet for 4 years and rafa tries to replace him with gareth barry.

Keane - is never allowed to finish a game and after one of his best games for us vs psv he's left on the bench for 90mins for the 2nd consecutive time vs hull.

I fail to see how you can get a positive response from players after this sort of treatment. There are several other examples (finnan, crouch, cisse, sinama.....) of how rafa has inexplicably dropped players or rested players or rotated players or whatever he likes to call it. This kind of management can only have a players confidence in tatters.

Insua was not dropped for the game against PSV, he simply hasn't been regiestered for the Champions League squad - same goes for El Zhar which is why he doesn't play in them.

Babel should be on the bench for the simple fact his best games in a Liverpool shirt have been when he's come off the bench. I can't recall many games where he's started and actually shone - Barnsley last year in the FA Cup and he ended up getting brought off.

Agger since returning to the side because of Skrtel's has been extremely poor on a regular basis whereas Sami has done a professional job when called upon.

Alonso has been player of the year this season and has probably spurred on by the fact that we (as a club) wanted Barry to replace him. He's trying to prove a point.

Keane has been badly managed down to some mind boggling formation selections where Keane is being asked to play up top when he can't.

Benitez on the whole just makes the most outrageous decisions and yet they come off for him so often, or rather Steven Gerrard makes them come off for him so often. Benitez does manage certain players badly and has us playing like static robots but we're top of the league so he must be doing something right. If playing like robots with badly managed players can win us the league (and right now it's up to us to lose it) then I won't be complaining because all I want to see is Liverpool win the league. It's the best start we've had for a while, so long may it continue.

[Igor Zidane]

There really isn't any need for the outpouring of abuse, grief, ridicule etc you get each time there is a disenting voice. OF COURSE WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE TITLE RACE, WE'RE STILL FECKING TOP FFS!!!!! NOBODY IS SAYING THAT WE ARE!!!!!!!!



But posters are saying that we are out of it,, posters are saying sack the manager now and posters are being totally ott and unrealistic in some of there critisism .. That's why they get the reaction they do , Rafa got it wrong against Hull  with his subs ,i'd say 99.9% of fans would probably agree. Absolutely nowt wrong in saying so , but for god sakes Mick do you read some of the in game and post game posts , there complete and utter bollox mate . I'm practically throwing the keyboard at the budgie at times . If posts were as well thought out as your goodselfs and stu's last thread starter then we would have half the bickering and bitching that we do .

[stapo1000]

Agree, i couldn't give a sh1.t if we were to play with 10 in defense for a whole season as long as we won a league out of it. But it seems sometimes as if rafas doing his best to loose us the league. We may be top of the league but we're lucky to be there. rafa wont be sacked nor should he be at this stage in the season as that could upset the entire balance of the squad but this is our best chance in 20 years.At the end of the season if we loose the league by 1 or 2 pts i dont wanna be looking back on games where rafa's poor management cost us vital points and say- if only dosenna didn't get roasted by mendy or if only we'd make more positive subs against west ham,fulham,stoke...  we might have been champions.

[Igor Zidane]

Agree, i couldn't give a sh1.t if we were to play with 10 in defense for a whole season as long as we won a league out of it. But it seems sometimes as if rafas doing his best to loose us the league. We may be top of the league but we're lucky to be there. rafa wont be sacked nor should he be at this stage in the season as that could upset the entire balance of the squad but this is our best chance in 20 years.At the end of the season if we loose the league by 1 or 2 pts i dont wanna be looking back on games where rafa's poor management cost us vital points and say- if only dosenna didn't get roasted by mendy or if only we'd make more positive subs against west ham,fulham,stoke...  we might have been champions.

Do you reckon that there is this remote possibilty that we still might be champions , being top of the league an all that .
Who's shoes would you rather be in now ?

Fergies , going of to JAPAN being 6pts behind the leaders ,without a game until the new year .

Wengers , holding on with your fingernails to the others above you , with your team moral in disarray .

Scolari's , 13 pts at home out of apossible 27 pts and your team trying to find some form.

Rafa's ,being top of the league going into the christmas period , with your team trying to find some form , with the best srtiker in Europe still to come back from injury .

Who would you rather be , honestly?

[Rush Job]

Look, for all those who get their knickers collectively in a twist (not the last couple of posters) each time somebody says they are disappointed with a result, a decision, or a signing. VERY FEW PEOPLE, INFACT TWO OR THREE FROM WHAT I CAN SEE ARE SAYING WE SHOULD GET RID OF THE MANAGER.

There really isn't any need for the outpouring of abuse, grief, ridicule etc you get each time there is a disenting voice. OF COURSE WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE TITLE RACE, WE'RE STILL FECKING TOP FFS!!!!! NOBODY IS SAYING THAT WE ARE!!!!!!!!

All that some people are saying is that we are giving ourselves a mountain to climb by keep drawing at home. Some people think we should have either played a striker from the outset on Saturday, or at the very least brought one on as sub. It really isn't that much of a revolutionary theory, why do some people think it is subversive to talk of such things?

Why must the forum be a war zone absolutely all of the time? If somebody makes the point that despite being top we  aren't playing that well, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY FOLLOW THAT THEY ARE A TOTAL C...  They are simply telling the truth, get over it people FFS. Similarly, if somebody suggests that given the fact that they've already played all the best teams away, the Mancs are looking dangerous, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY SUPPORT MAN U!!!!!!

I suggested it wasn't a strong Premiership earlier on (I also added that I didn't give a feck as long as long as we won it, and that I agreed that it was exciting) and feck me talk about a reaction I got. All of a sudden I was suggesting all sorts of blasphemous thoughts.

I agree people need to chill out big style, but it isn't the moaners it's the bovver boys who try and jump on any dissenting opinion who need to take a chill pill. The one and only aspect of our normal season which I'm missing now we're challenging is that everybody is too hyped up. It's like a fecking pack of dogs geeing each other up sometimes I swear   


We're all happy that we're top. We all think we can play better. We're all glad each time the Mancs and Chelsea feck up. We all think we have a better team than we did five years ago, we all know that Dirk Kuyt runs around a lot. We agree on many things. Chill.

"Outpouring of abuse, grief and ridicule"

From who?  Your a very sensitive bloke arent ya mick,and from reading your posts you ridicule people's opinions your self. You often say somebody's point and follow it up with a laughing smilie, is that not ridicule?
Ive only seen posters like EM and Scotbott try and offer balance to extreme opinions like sacking the manager, wheres the outpouring of abuse, grief and ridicule? Looking through these boards I think you'll find most of that comes from posters who for their various reasons want Rafa out, and 90% of that is by stu. 

[Fo Dne]

I am just glad that you are not in charge, give Rafa his 10 year contract now so I can rest easy.

But seriously, we are a big club with a top manager (not just a top coach) and we would be stupid to mess with what is showing progress. You know, I dont think that you would even want Liverpool to win this year, you would take more pleasure from watching it crumble and not having to eat bitter humble pie. Don't worry, its a coping mechanism and many people on here use it to manage their expectations of their club.

No one doubts your knowledge of footy (some might disagree with some opinions) but you would have a better case for these arguments if they were not just after bitter results. Once you learn to stay on top of your emotions you will get more respect as a poster, because dooming and glooming at a time like this just reeks of someone who needs a punching bag for christmas.

Blow off your steam somewhere else

So your first point is you think I want my football club to fail just because of personal pride? Yeah ok mate. That shows how much you don't know me. I moved house to be closer to the ground to make traveling to match easier so don't come out with like that when the chances are you don't even know where Liverpool is, let alone been here.

I want whats best for the club and a manager who's not interested in the youth academy (who's been there 2 times in a year) and a manager who's interested in releasing Warnock and Guthrie and replacing them with Dossena and Lucas aswell as siging the likes of Ngog, Leto, Josemi and Nunez, aswell as signing players for £20,000,000 then refusing to play them just because he wants to show he's the boss and making stupid changes to show he's the boss is not whats best for this club.

Secondly you then say I always make these comments after "bitter results"? Yet we're sitting at the top of the league and I've been saying this since the start of last season... So what is? Slightly contradicting yourself there. I firmly believe the best way to learn and improve is not to analyse where you went wrong when you lose, but to analyse where you may go wrong when you're winning and where the problems MAY arise when you're doing well. That way if you deal with them before they arise you can often eradicate any chance of that problem happening. 

I said at the start of the season about the defence being poor in the air and poor from set peices and winning first balls. I also believed Dossena is a poor a player, sure enough, these problems are costing us points on occassions (Spurs and Hull especially).

Liverpool FC will NEVER win the league with Benitez in charge. I hope am wrong, but I can't see it. This season so far we've blew so many chances to open up a lead at the top due to a lack of quality and we've been so lucky with the other teams results. If the stanard of the league was as good as in the past and the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal hadn't weakened themselves so much then we'd probably be a good few points behind already.

Make no mistake, this is our best chance, but its not due to the improvement of our team, its due to the other sides around us getting slightly worse, we need to take advantage of this and I almost garauntee we won't.

[LegBarnes]

i can only imagine how the mindset of some players is affected by rafa's management of the team.

Examples:

Insua - has a great game vs blackburn- dropped for the next 2 for dossena.

Babel - is bought for 12.5mil and played out of position and then dropped. Rafa promises that the best is to come from babel and despite him getting the better of vidic and terry in games where he had limited time to make an impact, he remains a player who only gets 15mins at the end of each.

El Zhar - never starts a league or cl game but is preferred ahead of babel and keane to be brought on when we need a goal.

Agger - Milan and Madrid want him but he cant get a game even though he was first choice for 2 seasons and rarely put a foot wrong.

Alonso - One of the first names on the first sheet for 4 years and rafa tries to replace him with gareth barry.

Keane - is never allowed to finish a game and after one of his best games for us vs psv he's left on the bench for 90mins for the 2nd consecutive time vs hull.

I fail to see how you can get a positive response from players after this sort of treatment. There are several other examples (finnan, crouch, cisse, sinama.....) of how rafa has inexplicably dropped players or rested players or rotated players or whatever he likes to call it. This kind of management can only have a players confidence in tatters.

perfect post 10/10 you take that to any one if they don't see sense in it they really did wear the hat in class with the D on it.

Bravo ! 

[Fo Dne]

Do you reckon that there is this remote possibilty that we still might be champions , being top of the league an all that .
Who's shoes would you rather be in now ?

Fergies , going of to JAPAN being 6pts behind the leaders ,without a game until the new year .

Wengers , holding on with your fingernails to the others above you , with your team moral in disarray .

Scolari's , 13 pts at home out of apossible 27 pts and your team trying to find some form.

Rafa's ,being top of the league going into the christmas period , with your team trying to find some form , with the best srtiker in Europe still to come back from injury .

Who would you rather be , honestly?

Thats unbalanced though and can so easily be twisted, watch:

Fergie: Played all of last seasons top ten away, only home games and the bottom half to play left away from home, the easiest run in.

Wenger: Young team who on there day are unplayable, its just about signing a couple of players in january to strengthen and add experience, maybe the consistency will come.

Scolari: Fantastic away from home, been missing one of the best defenders in Europe for the season and Drogba's hardly played, aswell as Essien soon to be back from an injury (he's one of the best in the world) an on form Anelka playing well and scoring goals and the best squad in the league to choose from when they're all fit.

Rafa: Top of the leauge but not playing well and have been extremely lucky in alot of respects so far both with there own and other results around them and keep dropping stupid and easy points and are consistently relying on one particular player to pull them through many games.

Very easy to twist something like that in your favour.

[LegBarnes]

Very easy to twist something like that in your favour.

yep why I don't like stats as well very easy to twist,  being able to read the game is far more rewarding.

[Leonmc0708]

HEre is my take on it. . .

Insua - has a great game vs blackburn- dropped for the next 2 for dossena.

Insua - I did OK, but next time I might need to try harder.

Babel - is bought for 12.5mil and played out of position and then dropped. Rafa promises that the best is to come from babel and despite him getting the better of vidic and terry in games where he had limited time to make an impact, he remains a player who only gets 15mins at the end of each.

Out of position ? He played at left wing for Ajax.

Babel - I need to show my true potential, I need to try harder, I need to make a bigger impacy

El Zhar - never starts a league or cl game but is preferred ahead of babel and keane to be brought on when we need a goal.

El Zhar - if I keep getting on and changing games, and work har then I will get my chance

Agger - Milan and Madrid want him but he cant get a game even though he was first choice for 2 seasons and rarely put a foot wrong.

You have spoken to the board members at Milan and MAdrid and confirmed this then ?

Agger - I need to grab my chance next time I get in

Alonso - One of the first names on the first sheet for 4 years and rafa tries to replace him with gareth barry.

Alonso - I have got a second chance here after a poor 18 months, I need to take it and step up my game

Keane - is never allowed to finish a game and after one of his best games for us vs psv he's left on the bench for 90mins for the 2nd consecutive time vs hull.

Keane - Shi.t, I am not first choice here, I am no longer the big fish in hte little pond, I need to step it up here big time

I fail to see how you can get a positive response from players after this sort of treatment.

In terms of people, the better more advanced thinkers question themselves before others, so thats why you would hope for the above thought processes.

There are several other examples (finnan, crouch, cisse, sinama.....) of how rafa has inexplicably dropped players or rested players or rotated players or whatever he likes to call it. This kind of management can only have a players confidence in tatters.

Finnan - was coming to the end of his career.

Crouch was given a long long run without scoring.

Cisse - was total and utter garbage, yet still given chances. He was also not Rafa's buy.

Pongolle - did not and has not since set the World alight. he wwas not good enough.