Rafa benitez - Lets get behind the boss!

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:38 pm

RUSHIE#9 wrote:I am 100% behind Rafa Benitez; i'd like to make that clear from the start. If and it is a big IF there is any foundation to these reports about a board member questioning Rafa I have one question. WHERE THE FUCKING HELL WERE THESE CONCERNS WHEN HOULLIER WAS PISSING AWAY £100 MILLION ON PLAYERS LIKE DIOUF, DIAO, CHEYROU, LE TALLEC, WESTERVELD, FERRI, BARMBY AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT HESKEY?' These so called comments stink to high heaven of hypocrissy(sp?), here we have one of the best young managers in europe whose team is going through a rough patch and is questioning his policies. Yes I think the rotation is causing problems but considering we've been doing it for 98 games and last season we came within 9 points of winning the league after being closer to 30 points away the previous year.

Yer, this is the part the fecks me off, too.  How can a board member who let Houllier run amok for so long even consider questioning Rafa publicly after the success he's brought to the club in the last two years?  It simply beggars belief. :no
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm

listen guys, optimism is a great thing to have, but lets be honest about it, this season we are sh!te with a capital s. whatever the reasons behind it the buck stops at rafas door. he is the man who can make decisions based on the team, and i have to say so far this season he has made many mistakes with team selection.

is he the right man to take us forward?  i beleieve he is but only when he stops experimenting to the detriment of the team and the teams performance.

do i think his rotation policy will work in the long run?  no i dont, i think its exsessive and as someone else said on here, what the point in having fit players at the end of the seson if you already have nothing left to play for?


i dont know, maybe im old school and believe that every game should have the best 11 players in the team and not changing just for the sake of changing.


a;so guys, lets get one thing straight, i am not one of the muppets calling for him to be sacked, but i think he needs to take a long hard look at his tactics this season. lets stop worrying about the other team, let them worry about us for a change. pick a strong team and let the other team work round us.

football is not chess, it never has been and it never will be, somethings you cant see happening tactically, how many times have you seen a bishop drop the ball onto the pawns head, how many times have you seen the queen dive to get the rook sent off. football is all about passion and skill at the end of the day, its not about grinding out goaless draws in the hope that we snatch one on the break. i am really getting annoyed with our negative, hit the ball long and hope it drops to one of our players approach. that approach is the one rafa wants to play, thats the approach he has the power to change
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Postby red37 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Paul Tomkins perspective:

Direct Abuse: A Dark Day for Liverpool FC

written by Paul Tomkins on 27/10/2006

The one thing Rafa Benítez surely never expected when swapping the political machinations of Valencia for the stable-run Liverpool FC was interference from the board. And as fans, we surely never expected it, either.

It's been one of the worst weeks for criticism of the manager, and up there with the 'crisis' from January 2005, just four months before the Reds won the Champions League. The Daily Mirror quotes an unnamed Liverpool Director, who has done the unthinkable and gone public with his thoughts on Rafa Benítez.

Again, as with Alan Hansen's comments this week, it wouldn't be so bad if the criticisms weren't so wide of the mark. But of course, given the club does its business exclusively behind closed doors, it would still be bad. Very bad.

It's a difficult time at the moment, and there's every chance this outrageous behaviour will help the rest of the club unite behind Rafa. It could prove to be the best thing that happened, particularly if the person in question leaves the board; I'm sorry, but you just don't do such a thing. A club with in-fighting quickly becomes a joke. If you're not pulling together you're falling apart.

What I don't get is that Rafa should know his best team. "Normally, by the time you get to October, you'd expect the manager to know his best team and stick with it but there are no signs of that happening now. I don't think he could tell you what his best team is," runs the quote.

Has this Director actually watched Benítez work since he arrived, or has he been living in an ivory tower? Did he actually see the kind of heavy rotation Rafa used to win two league titles in three years in Spain? When has Rafa ever stuck with the same side, including throughout the excellent season in 2005/06? Was he chiding Rafa for resting players ahead of the Champions League quarters, semis and final in 2005? And is he not watching what Alex Ferguson is doing at Manchester United, who has rotated as heavily as Benítez in the Premiership this season, but somehow managed to escape being tarred with the same brush?

Maybe Rafa doesn't know his best XI, but then again his entire methodology works on the basis of picking the best XI to beat the team in front of him. At times he may have one eye on the next fixture, too. But if anyone thinks he doesn't believe the teams he selects can win games, they have to be insane.

It's the best XI for the circumstances; slow opposition defenders might mean Bellamy instead of Crouch; small ones might mean Crouch instead of Bellamy. And so on. At Valencia Rafa barely used his talisman and the fans' favourite, Pablo Aimar, in the first half of the season. He unleashed him in the second half, and boy did it win dividends.

It's this kind of forward-thinking modern management that Rafa is all about. And the innovators in life are those who look forward, not backwards. Bill Shankly was an innovator. He did things his way. He changed things at Liverpool, updated them. No doubt it scared a few Directors, and there was no instant success; there was also a seven-year period between league titles. Shankly didn't look to what won the league 20 years earlier, but what would win it this season, or the next.

Maybe it's too late this season to win the title, but we should not be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Benítez has proven his quality, and earned breathing space with it. Does every setback have to be a full scale 'end of the world' disaster?

With so many new players needing time to bed in and find their confidence, and with key players like Carragher, Gerrard (who was also switched about last season), Hyypia and Alonso below par – perhaps due to unrelenting football in the last 24 months – it's never going to be easy to say for sure what the best XI is. In football, that changes with form, injuries and, in Rafa's case, tactical considerations.

This is the modern big-squad age, and the flipside to never rotating, aside from fatigue after January, is that you have ten top-quality disillusioned players who are needed in case of injuries and suspensions, but who are effectively frozen out. That can present its own problems.

With Benítez, while Peter Crouch may feel aggrieved to be rested after a two-goal display, at least the striker knows he'll be back in soon. He knows Rafa rates him. The reward for playing well is to be in the 16 on matchday; that's the motivation. The penalty for not producing, as Robbie Fowler found earlier in the season, is not even a place on the bench. Fowler got his turn again on Wednesday and put in the kind of virtuoso display that will be rewarded, even if it might not be with a start in the very next game. He's back in the frame.

The comments the unnamed Director made about expensive signings also seems insane, seeing as all the expensive dead wood (as well as some good players, lest we forget) was signed by Houllier. Benítez, like any manager, has messed up with some signings, but his mistakes have all been offloaded fairly quickly and without sentiment, and with the exception of Morientes, who cost £6m, all his flops have cost very little. And even Morientes was no £28m Seba Veron.

How can Benítez be paying 'over the odds' for players? Was Xabi Alonso over the odds? Momo Sissoko? Daniel Agger? Luis Garcia (whose goals in 2005 earned the club three times his transfer value) ?

Did Reina look expensive last season, when he kept the most clean sheets, but did so with the joint-highest save percentage in the league? Or does a loss of form mean a player is actually rubbish? Was the fee for Bellamy over the odds, when he'd have cost twice as much but for a clause in his contract? Was Crouch, with 20 goals for Liverpool in the last 11 months (plus 11 for England) and some superb link-up play, too expensive at £7m? And as for Kuyt, it's far too early to tell, but he looks like he'll prove a big success. His stay in England has coincided with his dad's cancer, so he's had a lot to contend with since the summer.

Only days ago Alan Hansen was saying that Liverpool have paid too little for players, claiming the club got 'maybe' players as they didn't pay top dollar. Which is interesting, as the sublime Scot himself cost in the 'maybe' bracket in 1977, precisely four times less than Kenny Dalglish that same summer. If comparing with today's prices, Daniel Agger, who is still younger than Hansen when he arrived at Liverpool, would be a definite 'maybe' player. But without wishing to over-burden him, Agger is the closest we've had to Hansen. He's a thoroughbred.

Paying big guarantees nothing. Around the time the Reds paid £2.3m for Dean Saunders and £2.2m for Nigel Clough, Manchester United paid £1.2m for Eric Cantona. I could go on –– there are examples of bargains, and there are examples of severely overpriced players. Meanwhile, some expensive players are worth the money, and some cheap ones are worthless. It all depends on the individual: is he good enough? And then it's down to how he settles, luck with injuries, etc.

It's 'putting the boot in' week. It follows on from Scott Murray, in a Guardian blog, claiming that Benítez is just a cup winner, like Gérard Houllier, and not a league champion. Rafa's success in Spain is couched with the suggestion that he was regarded as 'lucky', and the need to say such is beyond me. It beggars belief.

I can't for the life of me fathom how taking a club that hadn't won the league for 31 years, being given no money to spend, while having to face the two superpowers of Barcelona and Real Madrid, and then winning the league twice in three years (while still being good enough to simultaneously add a Uefa Cup for good measure) can be considered lucky? Especially when there was a widespread belief that the referees were favouring the big two.

I know it's a different league, but it's precisely this pedigree that marks out Benítez as a winner, and why he has my trust and my faith. Without that success under his belt I'd have more doubts, but he knows what it takes in the long haul. Valencia were written off in those seasons, too, lest we forget.

In England it was an even harder task facing Benítez, as I pointed out in 2004. But who else could have taken Liverpool as far in the past two seasons?

Seriously, who could have done better in the circumstances? Chelsea were even richer than Barcelona and Real Madrid, and at the time Benítez arrived, Liverpool were already a whopping 19 points behind the Blues, who'd also just made the Champions League semi-final. Chelsea had also appointed their own great coach, so closing the gap was a mammoth task, as the Stamford Bridge outfit bought every single player they wanted, and disrupted others, like Liverpool's own Steven Gerrard and Arsenal's Ashley Cole.

Meanwhile, Manchester United have spent massively on players. It doesn't mean guaranteed quality, as I said earlier, but great wealth gives more choice. But since Benítez arrived, they've won the League Cup and the FA Cup, compared with the Reds' FA Cup and, um, err, European Cup.

Also, let's not forget something I've pointed out on numerous occasions: Liverpool won 25 of 38 league games last season, which was a higher percentage of wins than in 17 of the 18 title successes. That puts the task facing Rafa into perspective. Despite the poor start, we are actually better placed than a year ago (six points closer to Chelsea), with a far "easier" fixture list remaining. We don't need to go on two great runs as of last season, merely pick up points at a steadier rate and avoid the dip in form that blighted January-March.

Although there have been other slumps during Rafa's tenure, it's been two great years, followed by two mediocre months this season. If we have no faith, no long-term view, we'll end up the kind of club that switches its manager every three weeks; and we all know how successful such clubs tend to be. Patience can be difficult, but sometimes there's no alternative. It's better to get there in the end, than to keep changing direction only to end up back where you started, or totally lot in the wilderness. You have to have a vision, and stick to it.

The criticism of Benítez has grown ridiculous. This is a slump, and no one should be feeling happy right now. But it's one of the darkest days I can remember in the club's history, where someone important within the club would go to a national tabloid to criticise the club's manager. I've always been proud of the way the club handles its affairs, but if individuals want to start behaving like they're at Newcastle United, then that's the best place for them.

But then again, I wouldn't even wish that on the poor suffering Geordies.

© Paul Tomkins 2006
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Postby Redman in wales » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm

taff... there;s already a thread about rafa and todays papers
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Postby taff » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:50 pm

I know just showing my support thats all didnt want a debate

And John Barnes Granny dont  ??? me  :p
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Postby jonnymac1979 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:51 pm

Merged guys.  Panic over. :D
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Postby Red H » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:53 pm

Having only briefly read the article I would debate whether RB has paid over the odds for anyone, quite the opposite in my opinion, and if someone does want to have a pop they should stick their head above the parapet.  Also to state the obvious and an over used phrase "form is temporary, class is perminant".  There are no "lucky" European cup winners, you get what you dereve. I have no issues with Benitez as our manager, I don't think anyone could be more committed, and I'm glad this seems to be the general belief amonst the fans.
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Postby redmikey » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:56 pm

top draw thread,

great to see everyone pulling together to unite behind the boss and feck the media world off with there sniping stories

i will say that we are allowed to moan every now and again but feck anyone having a go at my club from the outside

Come on rafa ,inject some confidents and shake some life back into stevies legs and lets steam roller some of these crr@p clubs under our blatant talent,
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Postby Paul C » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:23 pm

Personally I have faith in Rafa but I don't like members of the board coming out and saying sh1.te like this, it should stay behind closed doors as this has always been the LFC way:

ROUGH FOR RAFA
By Martin Lipton

RAFA BENITEZ'S position at Liverpool is under pressure after a senior Anfield board member admitted the club is concerned about the direction the Spaniard is taking them.

With Liverpool already 11 points off the Premiership pace set by Manchester United and Chelsea, directors are already giving up hope of ending the championship drought that has already lasted 16 seasons.

And one influential figure on the six-man board revealed that Benitez's leadership of the team was being questioned.

"We have paid too many inflated prices and inflated wages for players who are not doing the job," said the director, who is concerned for the future of the club but wants to remain anonymous to avoid a boardroom split.

"When it comes to any manager, the view of the board has always been to let them get on with it. We do not believe in interfering.

"But the day will come when we may not be that way inclined any more. We have always been very respectful of any manager we appoint. The view has always been the same one, the right one - that the manager must stand or fall by his efforts.

"But one thing that we can't hide is that we have to be in the Champions League every season and if we do not qualify it will be a major problem.

"The budget we have set up is still in balance if we do not get into the Champions League. But if we are to make investment in the team we are talking about £20m of income we need to have every season."

Criticism of Benitez - who still has the backing of chairman David Moores - was aimed at his constant team changing and the lack of any pattern or passion in last weekend's Old Trafford defeat.

"We were looking to do something in the league. We thought it would be this year and it's not going to happen now.

"Normally, by the time you get to October, you'd expect the manager to know his best team and stick with it but there are no signs of that happening now. I don't think he could tell you what his best team is."


:angry:
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Postby zarababe » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:24 pm

I have to say I have just read about this, and find it utterly unbelievable :( That a 'Director' would do this...  Benitez is the man who has put Liverpool back on the European Map, after that wonderful night in May.. the number of supporters the club attracted, the enhanced respect and reputation of LFC,  not to mention the inspiration we have become, Ronaldhinio called it the 'Liverpool Spirit'..

I'm really shocked, when you consider the misery we were under when Souness was in charge, did this ever happen then. How f*ckin dare he. Not man enuff to reveal himself ay :angry:. How can a Liverpool Director become a suck up to a tabloid.

Benitez said that the title would be realistic in 3 years, achievemnets beyond our dreams, culminating in a massive reduction in the points difference to the winners and only a point behind Manc for 2nd, raised expectations, and rightly so. I expected more too, but I now realise that so many new faces need a chance to settle, undertsand the boss' ethos and ideas, not to mention adjusting to new surroundings etc. Dips in form etc form the old school happens too, but perspective is needed.

This has really :censored: p*ssed me off.. :angry: I wanna ring the neck of that person who has talked to the tabloid scums.. they're all :censored: scum these cheap low class papers.. :angry:

Sorry rafa .. facing such a headline.. :(
THE BRENDAN REVOLUTION IS UPON US !

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RAFA.. MADE THE PEOPLE HAPPY !

Miss YOU Phil-Drummer - RIP YNWA

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Postby Pedro O'Maradona » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:29 pm

its tabloid journalism at its finest....Un-named sources etc etc......a load of rubbish, it is not LFC style to go public never was and I'd be surprised if that has changed..... I dont think a board member would be telling martin lipton anything.....Ive never seen paper refuse ink....and thats all it is, ink (no substance to it i would say)....I wonder how many copies it sold?....Liverpool go on a ten game winning streak and no one will remember Liptons (non) story...
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Postby Paul C » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Doh, didn't see that other thread, getting a bit rusty at posting cos I can't use the internet at my new job so can't post as much.  :(
Last edited by Paul C on Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Red Dotty » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:15 pm

It's a load a SH@T, like all media cr@p it was taken out of context.

I have faith in Raffa. The only comment i did  read that i thought had any meat about it, which was in the same artical was the views that Stevie G in the last few games has looked very Peeved off.

Fustration i feel is creeping in as i feel he wants to get in the middle of the park and start to grab this team by the Bollucks and get them going, but as he has stated he will do whatever is asked of him.

My view is get him in the middle and let him do what he does best put the fear of christ into teams. :hearts
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:53 pm

1) As far as we know this could all be made up, no name is given.

2) Directors know nothing about football

3) The points made about being in the Champions League every season are 100% viable and Rafa would agree.

4) We have spoilt by the progress in the last two years and expectations are unfairly high even if we haven’t done well so far this season.

5) A couple of league wins and a rise into the business end of the league will halt all this criticism and Rafa will be able to get on with it.

6) We have a board that have always been fair with the amount of time and support they have given managers, and I have no doubt this will remain.
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Postby 67-1161385641 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:29 pm

A load of tookin cosh, Rafa will bring glory back to the fields of Anfield Road. I'm so confident of it, I'll even stick my house on that. Rafa is genius and genius' need time, Einstein didn't solve his E=MC2 in a day. Rome wasn't built in a day and this clubs history wasn't written in one day.
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