Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

I didn't mate. I talked of playing Lucas there until we worked out he wasn't up to it, then moving Gerrard back before a ball was kicked. There is also part of me (despite the fact I did say that) which is bound to say it's not my job to spot the obvious, it's Rafa's. It's fairly obvious now alright, so a top manager might have been expected to have worked it out before proving it over half a dozen games, no?

So you were being sarcastic all along is what you're saying?

Either that or you were advocating a clear contradiction in terms....sticking with a partnership that was obviously not up to standard in spite of a better alternative.

The last point, clearly, but that I'm not disputing. I level that criticism against Rafa myself, but I don't (well, try not to ) revise history after the fact.

[big al]

Lucas was bought as a holding midfielder and a player for the future. It was'nt the lads fault that we got a better holding player in Mascherano who he would have covered for.  The loss of Alonso has forced Rafa to play the kid and people are not comparing like with like. For Goodness sake Alonso is the best Passing midfielder in the world.  Lucas would be still onlearning his trade but for Alonso leaving.  If people here want to blame someone then blame Rafa for either not changing the system or by bringing in a passing player.

[Rush Job]

Broadly speaking, we can no longer control a game.

Hardly surprising when more than half of your first choice 11 are all injured and you've to make do with bargain bucket squad fillers to take up the mantal. Lucas and Spearing for central pair anyone? Na, didn't think so either. At the minute, injuries and some bad luck have turned our season upside down.

Thats the point tho isn't it 2-3 players out and we can't control a game even at home in CL total sh.it 5 years now and we still are a 2 man team.

Hardly. You take 5 or 6 of your best players out of ANY team in the country, and suddenly you'll look a little ragged. Were we playing a Coca-Cola Championship side tonight? No. We were playing a well organised Lyon outfit in the top tier in Europe, and let's be honest, Gerrard and Torres have hardly been on top form this season either, even if Torres has scored a fair amount in the league, he's still been below his best.

Emerald, your optimism is truly astonishing. But for the life of me, I can't see a single ray of hope at the moment.
We are cack at the back, lifeless and have no inspiration in midfield, and toothless in front of goal except when we play a no-hope team.....
We have a pathetic bench to choose from, players that nobody else wants to sign, and a manager who talks utter tripe like there's no tomorrow....
I am a fan of this club for as long as I can remember but this is just a shade too far. It's embarrassing.

I'm not denying it. We're atrocious all over the pitch. We can't seem to get anything cohesive going at all. But I refuse to believe that whenever our first choice is available and confidence is good, that we are anything other than a very, very good side capable of competing for anything. We all knew our squad was thin last year. We all knew where and what needed to be done in the transfer market in the summer. Did Rafa f*ck it up in the Summer, or was he hindered by lack of funds in order to fill the positions we needed. From what I've read, he wanted Villa and certainly went for Silva. The funds just weren't there. Now either Rafa was lying or the Yanks lied to him. I recall a statement made by Rafa in the press that he could afford at least another big money signing to come after he signed Johnson for 18 million. Where was it?

Thing is, I'm optimistic because things can seriously only get better rather than worse. They have to. It's the only way this football club can survive. Those that boo'd inside Anfield tonight over a sub should all f*cking hang their heads in shame.

Things can get worse alot worse just because you don't think we can finish out of top 4 don't mean rest of us are so cocksure we won't at this rate we be lucky to finish top half of table another lose on sunday and that game vs fulham looks like a real nasty game.

I'll reiterate: we've 5 of our first 11 injured, or recovering from injury. We've only just got Masherano and Agger back fully fit. Here, have a look at this team.
             
                    Riena

Johnson   Carragher Agger     Aurelio


            Masherano
                          Aquilani


Kuyt                                   Riera

                 Gerrard

                  Torres

Not a bad team, no? Compare this to the team in the last sevaral games.

Mate if your going by "injured or coming back from injury" its more like 7 first teamers.
Aurelio, Johnson, Masch, SG, Torres, Aquilani and Riera.
Add to that Carra badly out of form and no Alonso and its easy to see the problem.
We all new we needed a bit of luck with injurys, well we havent had it.
I know there are many who think someone else (them probably) could have done better with the money given but no one IMO with our funds and transfer policy could have given us a significantly better first 11 AND a stronger squad.
It seems it became obvious to Rafa he was never going to be able to have the strongest squad so he dropped the rotation and made the first team stronger, something that was being strongly voiced, and last season we proved with moderate luck with injurys that the first team he has put together is of the required standard I just dont think with our current situation we can expect or ask for anymore than a first 11 that can compete with anyone, thats what we all wanted when he was concentrating too much on "options and possibilitys", improve the first team was the cry "fk the squad".
Anyone thinking we could have signed Bent, Cattermole and Turner to sit on the bench is living in dreamland.

[NANNY RED]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

[Dazzer]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

TBPH I think there are other managers under more stress in league that are doing better job IE... paul hart @ pompey.But in ideal world it would be great but I feel rafa will go before the owners do even tho I atm would like to see owners gone before rafa still by a margin.

[Rush Job]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

TBPH I think there are other managers under more stress in league that are doing better job IE... paul hart @ pompey.But in ideal world it would be great but I feel rafa will go before the owners do even tho I atm would like to see owners gone before rafa still by a margin.

Hart is under pressure alright mate but Im not sure how you can say he`s doing a better job?

[Rush Job]

Lucas was bought as a holding midfielder and a player for the future. It was'nt the lads fault that we got a better holding player in Mascherano who he would have covered for.  The loss of Alonso has forced Rafa to play the kid and people are not comparing like with like. For Goodness sake Alonso is the best Passing midfielder in the world.  Lucas would be still onlearning his trade but for Alonso leaving.  If people here want to blame someone then blame Rafa for either not changing the system or by bringing in a passing player.

But he wasnt bought as a holding midfielder, Rafa has tried to turn him into one though.

[heimdall]

i think theres a lot of unfair comments about lucas

what, becuase he is outstandingly good yet no one can see it but you?

[heimdall]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

TBPH I think there are other managers under more stress in league that are doing better job IE... paul hart @ pompey.But in ideal world it would be great but I feel rafa will go before the owners do even tho I atm would like to see owners gone before rafa still by a margin.

Hart is under pressure alright mate but Im not sure how you can say he`s doing a better job?

Well he hasn't lost that many more games has he? 

[made in UK]

I think Rafa is both a victim of circumstance and has "fecked up".

Although we never had the finacial clout of the likes of Chelsea and Manchester United during Moores' reign at the club. Rafa was pretty liberal in his spending, buying prospects and options for the future. The two I can think of off the top of my head are Babel who cost 11M and Lucas who cost 6M. Credit where it is due he did well in sorting and buying the spine of the team, Alonso, Reina, Sissoko and even Garcia. They were players for the present, he accomplished that pretty well in my opinion. Then as I say he carried on spending for long term prospects, all those youngsters we're never going to see and the likes of Lucas and Babel etc.

Now (currently) he still finds himself in a circumstance that still does not really compete with the finacial clout of Chelsea, Manchester United and now City. There are more precarious issues behind the scenes now than there was when Moores was chairman and it cannot be easy to work under two penny pinching cuniving no nothings about football.

The problem now is Rafa is relying heavily on some of these prospects he brought when Moores was here and the added ons since, like N'gog. It has really exposed Rafa I believe in buying many mediocre squad players that were probably never going to get a real look in. With the injury crisis we have now Rafa is forced to give these guys a run out and its highlighting his poor buys from as far back as Moores' reign.

In the meantime he has had to let go of players like Sissoko, Finnan, Garcia, Alonso, Crouch, Keane and even Owen. Seven good players there who for different reasons have left us and only Owen has really been replaced by Torres, sorry Finnan replaced by Johnson. It seems much more quality has gone through the exit door than arriving through the entrance, while all the time we had these periphial prospects waiting to get their chance. I think we've finally seen enough of players like Lucas, Babel, Voronin N'gog, Dossena, Insua and Aurelio to realise they're never going to make the grade here. Yet Rafa is forced to play his transfer duds because of the circumstance he now finds himself in.

[Dazzer]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

TBPH I think there are other managers under more stress in league that are doing better job IE... paul hart @ pompey.But in ideal world it would be great but I feel rafa will go before the owners do even tho I atm would like to see owners gone before rafa still by a margin.

Hart is under pressure alright mate but Im not sure how you can say he`s doing a better job?

I ment with resources he has had to rafa ? you think I am wrong ? prove it. 

[Dazzer]

Whats the odds Owen the player Rafa refused to let back in our club scores on sunday and gets rafa the sack ?

[Rush Job]

I would just like to see what Rafa could do without any off the field disturbances ,To buy without having to sell, Thats all. if that happens an he fails , then ill think about it lol

TBPH I think there are other managers under more stress in league that are doing better job IE... paul hart @ pompey.But in ideal world it would be great but I feel rafa will go before the owners do even tho I atm would like to see owners gone before rafa still by a margin.

Hart is under pressure alright mate but Im not sure how you can say he`s doing a better job?

Well he hasn't lost that many more games has he? 

Lost 8 won 1 in the league.
So on the plus side once we have sacked Rafa we should be able to get him on the cheap. 

[Octsky]

Whats the odds Owen the player Rafa refused to let back in our club scores on sunday and gets rafa the sack ?

It will go down in history and made into a movie by Hollywood.
I think someone mentioned it here before, Rafa and the team is here because:

1) 40% due to the good players that wanted to stay but sold off (Keane, Bellamy, Riise, and Crouch)

2) 40% due to the players he signed. (Johnson is a good player but given present situation, do we need a attacking right back more or a backup CF or CM more?)

3) 20% due to the players he didnt sign. The lists goes on.

The team is where it is because of Rafa, the argument of no enough cash make available by the owners is rubbish as Rafa knows we are not a cash mine the minute he signed on the dotted line.

I have seen Wenger managing well with less funds.
How about the present Sunderland? Redknapp managed Portsmouth well with limited funds too. Martin and Villa?

[puroresu]

Funds is not the reason why we are in this position.  the Boss has signed some players which for the money spent he could of got better.  For whatever reason we really seem to struggle in finding quality players under the £10 mil bracket.  Lucas was supposed to be a gem but his poor.  Babel at £11 mil was going to be the next big thing but again poor. Aqualani cost big money and still isnt fit.  We lost Alonso and then couldnt even sign the player (Barry) that Rafa wanted to replace Alonso. I would agree we are owned by a bunch of cowboys who dont help the situation however all the blame cant be put on them.