Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

Maybe off topic, or a side tangent, If the owners weren't so hated by the supporters would they have sacked Rafa already?  It's almost as if Rafa's popularity is more a result of the hatred of the owners than it is in having confidence in the manager.  I don't think the owners would have the balls to fire Rafa because they would surely come under more fire than they have ever even thought possible.

But at what other big club, would winning 1 out of 10, going out of the Champions League and being 13 points behind the League Leaders, what manager of a big club would still have his job?

It's a very interesting angle mate and I think you're definately onto something. Many fans actually see Rafa as being their champion, the defender of the faith as far as the club is concerned. They may even be right, perhaps it is the case that Rafa has "stood up to the two tw@ts" and has protected the integrity of the club. This is probably what Jamie Redknapp talks about when he accuses rafa of "manipulating" the fans, rightly or wrongly.

I definately think your on the money in that if the owners felt the tide of opinion shifting against Rafa, they'd be much more inclined to pull the trigger. Unquestionably as well at any other big club in World football he would have already been on his way the way things have panned out.

Maybe its something that the owners have learnt about Liverpool - we dont sack managers , i expect he might be sacked if he was in charge of a club on the continent if they had the same sort of results and more than  likely at Chelsea under Roman - not so sure at the Mancs or Arsenal etc as they both been in our position over the last ten odd years and both managers survived . It was off course a number of years ago and things different in this day and  age .

One thing the owners have stated is thou they only budget to reach the CL group stage and anything else after is a bonus so maybe going out of the CL at this stage isnt such a deal for them . Who knows . Not reaching the CL is a totally different matter but for that we need to wait till the end of the season .

We don't sack managers, oh is Souness still our manager then? Look at what point would you end your love affair and say enough is enough with regards to Rafa, would failure to qualify for Europe be the tipping point or perhaps relegation might make you think he isn't the right man for the job?

[Benny The Noon]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

[heimdall]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

[Benny The Noon]

First of all Rafa will not go if we are out of the CL and lose to the bitters. No chance whatsoever. Nor should he. It is part of football to lose as well as win.
The question should be does Rafa 'get' the Prem? Hes been here long enough to have 'got' it by now, but has he? Really?
When he first came he got rid of all of Houlliers staff and therefore anyone who had connections to the club. He brought in his own men, men who had no knowledge of the Prem and so put us quickly in a game of catch up. Then just as paco starts to understand whats needed he leaves. Finally Rafa brings Sammy Lee back and reconnects with Liverpools heart and past. When Mourinho went to Chelsea he kept some of the staff on. Some people who had Prem experience and knowledge and look what happened. Rafa didnt and here we are. I still maintain we will finish second but I also insist that we will not win the league with him in charge

Backroom staff is an interesting one - can understand why Rafa would want his own men in and he brought them all with him - one left after a season because he wanted to go home - Herrra i think ?? Then there was the Paco incident where it seems he was friendly with Maureen and wanted to work with him or something along those lines but the youth set up etc was still old people from GH days - i think some from further back than that . Bringing in sammy was a great move - not sure about Pelligrino - Revamping the kids/academy and ressies only started this summer so guess we will have to wait and see about that but the early signs are good - some youngsters that seem to be great potential and a ressie team on a roll which is full of kids bought or brought in by Rafa .

[Benny The Noon]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

[LFC2007]

1. If we go out of the Champions League AND lose to Everton, should Rafa survive or should we still wait until the end of the season before making any assessment?

I'd be inclined to say that he should stay under those circumstances because there ought to remain a good possibility of achieving a top four spot, with the FA cup and Europa League as viable trophy opportunities. How much worse would it have to get before I felt inclined to advocate a change in manager? I'm not sure but it's not as far as off as I'd like it to be. To a large extent that question would also depend on which managers are available (an inevitable follow on in this discussion, IMO). Overall, though, while there's scope for him to turn it around I'd like him to stay.

2. Are there any circumstances which would excuse a failure to qualify for the Champions League by virtue of finishing in the top four in the league? That is to say, will "but we've had lots of injuries/but the opwners are c...s" be a viable excuse which will warrant another season?

Generally I feel inclined to say that under those circumstances a change in manager would be desirable. However, with the FA cup, and hopefully the UCL still to play for, it's not a foregone conclusion for me; how might that affect the club and the fans?
I think a lot of people are wavering, myself included, but you just can't know how you'll feel until it's actually happened. It again depends to a large extent on which manager's are available, or more to the point; who we're likely to be able to acquire. If we won the FA cup and went far in Europe and finished fifth and Mourinho happened to be a viable target, I'd probably be more inclined to advocate a change than would be otherwise be the case. But until we see how these things pan out, it's not easy to say.

[NANNY RED]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

Is correct , but Why would Heimdell know about that considering he thinks Rafa has been our manager for the past 40 years

[account deleted by request]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

Is correct , but Why would Heimdell know about that considering he thinks Rafa has been our manager for the past 40 years

Houllier left with a full pay off package, no reason why Rafa couldn't do the same. Walk/sacked/ mutual consent ..... if they get their payoff they are only words.

[Sir Roger]

First of all Rafa will not go if we are out of the CL and lose to the bitters. No chance whatsoever. Nor should he. It is part of football to lose as well as win.
The question should be does Rafa 'get' the Prem? Hes been here long enough to have 'got' it by now, but has he? Really?
When he first came he got rid of all of Houlliers staff and therefore anyone who had connections to the club. He brought in his own men, men who had no knowledge of the Prem and so put us quickly in a game of catch up. Then just as paco starts to understand whats needed he leaves. Finally Rafa brings Sammy Lee back and reconnects with Liverpools heart and past. When Mourinho went to Chelsea he kept some of the staff on. Some people who had Prem experience and knowledge and look what happened. Rafa didnt and here we are. I still maintain we will finish second but I also insist that we will not win the league with him in charge

Backroom staff is an interesting one - can understand why Rafa would want his own men in and he brought them all with him - one left after a season because he wanted to go home - Herrra i think ?? Then there was the Paco incident where it seems he was friendly with Maureen and wanted to work with him or something along those lines but the youth set up etc was still old people from GH days - i think some from further back than that . Bringing in sammy was a great move - not sure about Pelligrino - Revamping the kids/academy and ressies only started this summer so guess we will have to wait and see about that but the early signs are good - some youngsters that seem to be great potential and a ressie team on a roll which is full of kids bought or brought in by Rafa .

Sorry
Does that mean you think Rafa gets the Prem or not?

[Benny The Noon]

First of all Rafa will not go if we are out of the CL and lose to the bitters. No chance whatsoever. Nor should he. It is part of football to lose as well as win.
The question should be does Rafa 'get' the Prem? Hes been here long enough to have 'got' it by now, but has he? Really?
When he first came he got rid of all of Houlliers staff and therefore anyone who had connections to the club. He brought in his own men, men who had no knowledge of the Prem and so put us quickly in a game of catch up. Then just as paco starts to understand whats needed he leaves. Finally Rafa brings Sammy Lee back and reconnects with Liverpools heart and past. When Mourinho went to Chelsea he kept some of the staff on. Some people who had Prem experience and knowledge and look what happened. Rafa didnt and here we are. I still maintain we will finish second but I also insist that we will not win the league with him in charge

Backroom staff is an interesting one - can understand why Rafa would want his own men in and he brought them all with him - one left after a season because he wanted to go home - Herrra i think ?? Then there was the Paco incident where it seems he was friendly with Maureen and wanted to work with him or something along those lines but the youth set up etc was still old people from GH days - i think some from further back than that . Bringing in sammy was a great move - not sure about Pelligrino - Revamping the kids/academy and ressies only started this summer so guess we will have to wait and see about that but the early signs are good - some youngsters that seem to be great potential and a ressie team on a roll which is full of kids bought or brought in by Rafa .

Sorry
Does that mean you think Rafa gets the Prem or not?

I think he does get the prem but can be too cautious and too defensive sometimes - he knows how to win in the prem against all the teams but sometimes sets teams out with a fear of loosing the game .

[heimdall]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

did not know that but leaving by mutual consent is pretty much the same thing as a sacking Benny.

[Benny The Noon]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

Is correct , but Why would Heimdell know about that considering he thinks Rafa has been our manager for the past 40 years

Houllier left with a full pay off package, no reason why Rafa couldn't do the same. Walk/sacked/ mutual consent ..... if they get their payoff they are only words.

Maybe words mate but it sort of keeps us unique and different and enables managers of our club to leave with head held high as they should .

[Benny The Noon]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

did not know that but leaving by mutual consent is pretty much the same thing as a sacking Benny.

You didnt know Evans resigned after he realised the joint managership with Houllier wouldnt work ? when did you start supporting again ? Genuine question .

[heimdall]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

Is correct , but Why would Heimdell know about that considering he thinks Rafa has been our manager for the past 40 years

wow you are just so good at taking things out of context nanny, kind of like Supersub is so clever at using his mod powers to edit peoples posts, tee hee hee aren't I a big shot. 

In all honesty the first manager who I paid any attention to was Souness, not because he was particularly good but because that was when I started supporting Liverpool, I'm some glory hunter eh ?? 

[account deleted by request]

Souness resigned , learn your history .

Houllier left by mutual consent to enable Liverpool kept up tradition of not sacking managers .

And Evans?

Resigned .

The last and only manager and we sacked was way back after the war - Don Welsh

Is correct , but Why would Heimdell know about that considering he thinks Rafa has been our manager for the past 40 years

Houllier left with a full pay off package, no reason why Rafa couldn't do the same. Walk/sacked/ mutual consent ..... if they get their payoff they are only words.

Maybe words mate but it sort of keeps us unique and different and enables managers of our club to leave with head held high as they should .

So we sack him and then say it was by mutual consent (same as Newcastle usually do ..... No problem  He gets his payoff, we get to keep our "unique status" and everyone is happy (apart from you and Nanny    )