Liverpool FC Forum

[A.B.]

I personally haven't been a fan of Liverpool as long as some of you have because I grew up watching mainly everything except English football.

Ever since I saw Liverpool play for the first time in my life, I instantly became a fan for some reason. I don't know what it was that I liked about Liverpool but I just did. It wasn't the glory from the 70's and the 80's it was something else, something that I never felt as a football fan before.

I may have not seen Ian Rush, Kevin Keegan or Dalglish play but I certainly know what they have done for this club. Even before I was a Liverpool fan I never liked Manchester, so I guess you could say that I was born to hate them.

Through out the years I've been a fan I have never lost faith or hope in the club. Even when we lost a key player we had somebody else that could help us expand our legacy. Losing Michael Owen was gutting at first but we can cope without him just as we coped without Fowler and so many others.

We went from second place to third and then to fourth in the past 3 seasons. Last year was disapointing, Houllier really made promises that he shouldn't had but those who are patient enough will be rewarded at the end. Houllier was sacked and we got one of the best Spanish managers, Rafael Benitez. Benitez made Valencia champions in his first year, taking talented players and making them into champions.

I was excited when I heard that Benitez was comming. He is a great tactical manager and getting him was a reward after last season. Benitez has bought some quality players and with the players we have already had in 9 months time we will be at our best like Rafa said. We can do it without Owen and now we have to do it without Gerrard because he won't becomming back till November. The more you think about his injury the slower time will pass. Continue on with life, we have good players and we can do some great things when we play intelligent football. Every game prepares us for the one that follows it.

We have two wins, two losses and a draw. Not horrible, not terrible, not perfect but good compared to our start last year and considering that we have new players. I have said weeks ago that we can not depend on one individual player because it will affect us when that player is injured, and what I have said has come back to haunt me but it is the truth. This is a test that we must go through and pass it with flying  colours. It will take time no matter how you look at it. We had two great games last week but then we lose to Manchester United. Its not the end of the world, we lost at Trafford because we didn't put any effort into the game. If you look at it we have scored 7 goals, allowed 5. Won two, drawn one and lost two. Played a total of 5.

Manchester have scored 7, allowed 6. Won two, drawn three and lost one. Played a total of 6.

Almost the exact same record, they have played a game more than we have so you expect them in a way to have more points at the moment. It will be a race till the end between us and them

Personally I believe we got a bit cocky going into the game, thinking that Man Utd would be an easy win. Its never easy. Rafael wants to take every game we play seriously. Believe in your players and your manager. Enough with sack him, get rid of him, bring somebody else in. Our players have been critisized enough by the media but what makes it worse that we the FANS do it just as much as they do. Players like Kewell are an exception because he hasn't had a good game in a long time, his performance has been inconisistant. However have you ever thought about the fact that we the fans haven't sung YNWA so loud that even those at home could feel it withing their hearts, when was the last time that has happened? Don't you think that if we gave effort in every game don't you think that that players would think "well if 45,000 people are cheering as loud as they can, believing in this squad then I should give it my all in this game".

Just like those who don't wear the Red shirt with pride shouldn't play then the fans who don't support their club with pride shouldn't be Liverpool fans either.  Too much "what if" we lose, or "we wont" do this "we wont" do that. For once don't think about the negative things, think positevely. Don't give me that "I'm being realistic" nonsense, saying that we will lose to Norwich City is not being realistic. Its been doubtful.

This season will be better than last season, but it will take time to see us at our best. However that doesn't mean that we will lose every damn game or that we will win every game either. If we want to be known once again as the best fans in the world we have to be supportive of the club and each other otherwise we will always be divided.

YNWA

"When You Walk...
Through A Storm

[please continue by posting the lines of the rest of YNWA until we are done with the song, then start the first few lines of whatever song you wish  and so on]

[the great one]

i agree with some things but its wasn't that hard to make valencia champions when he inhertied a quality side from capello aimar,ayla,vincente,mista compared to the squad benitzes inhertied from houiller kewell,diao,biscan,traoe etc the list goes on and on but the best we can hope for is challenging man u for 3rd place and a  good cup run in the carling and fa cup and to progress past the group stages at the least in the champions league .

Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark

[A.B.]

Would had Valencia win the La Liga title without Benitez? I doubt it, he nortured the talent he inherited. Don't just list players that aren't the best on ur squad.

What about Carragher,Riise,Gerrard,Kirkland,Baros,Hamman,Hyypia? Now we also have Alonso,Garcia,Josemi,Nunez and Cisse. All capapable of becoming better players in every game. But we need a manager who is great at what he does, and we have him.

At The End of A Storm
Theres A Golden Sky

[JBG]

Good post A.B. but you are guilty of something a lot of Liverpool fans are guilty of: being obsessed with Man UTD.

Forget about them.

Personally I don't care what Man UTD do. We need to focus on our own club, not them.

UTD have their own problems, and it is very parochial focusing on bettering them as Arsenal and Chelsea disappear over the blue horizon.

Its pointless comparing our start to Man UTD's when Arsenal are already miles ahead.

[Leonmc0708]

Good post A.B. but you are guilty of something a lot of Liverpool fans are guilty of: being obsessed with Man UTD.

Forget about them.

Personally I don't care what Man UTD do. We need to focus on our own club, not them.

UTD have their own problems, and it is very parochial focusing on bettering them as Arsenal and Chelsea disappear over the blue horizon.

Its pointless comparing our start to Man UTD's when Arsenal are already miles ahead.

It is rife on this forum, people too worried about comparing us to Man Utd or Everton. They dont matter.

I bet AB is the type to cheer a Man Utd or Everton loss on the way out of Anfield after we have been beaten by Swindon.

[supersub]

Very interesting post AB.

[maximus]

Good post A.B. but you are guilty of something a lot of Liverpool fans are guilty of: being obsessed with Man UTD.

Forget about them.

Personally I don't care what Man UTD do. We need to focus on our own club, not them.

UTD have their own problems, and it is very parochial focusing on bettering them as Arsenal and Chelsea disappear over the blue horizon.

Its pointless comparing our start to Man UTD's when Arsenal are already miles ahead.

I must tend to agree JBG, the facts are that MAN Utd are no longer the benchmark, they have not been for a while. Whilst I do not know how old AB is, he strikes me as a young LFC fan, who has had to put up with the vast number of SKY TV biased manufactured glory hunter 'fans' of MUFC being created, that have come out of the woodwork in the last 15 years, like there is chelsea 'fans' of the same ilke coming through now (although not much of the glory in that case, more glamour!!).

We are light years behind Arsenal at the moment who are the benchmark, but in time I hope with the foundations being laid by Rafa we will get closer and closer, season by season.

History has proved that in football success is cyclical, and to get to the point in history where it is your turn in that 'cycle of success' foundations have to be laid, and a team has to be built, backroom staff, youth academies footballing ethos and traditions, above all the habit and expectancy of winning and being successful. At the moment the current team does not have the habit and expectancy of winning and being successful, because they are not used to it, Arsenal have,  46 games in the EPL unbeaten is a phenomenal record, and the confidence is breeding confidence, we HAD that in the 70's and 80's that, we do not have that at the moment. That is the job that faces Rafa, it does not happen overnight.

Rafa chose LFC over other teams, because of our rich heritage and tradition, but more critically for him, the fact that we were prepared to offer him a 5 year contract, which in the current day of 'quick fix' and demand for short term success is unheard of.

So forget MUFC. In the domestic game today, they are not important.  We need to aim higher if we are to get back to where we belong.

[JBG]

A.B. is a decent genuine fan who clearly loves the club, and while I agree with him that Man UTD fans are hateful, they're not worth the energy.

I think that it is a sad reflection of how far we have fallen behind when you get people obsessing about Man UTD. In our prime in the 1970s and 1980s we had various rivalries: Leeds, Notts Forest, QPR, Derby, Villa, Arsenal, Man UTD and Everton, but aside from the local rivalry with Everton (particularly in the 1980s when Everton were very strong) I don't think Liverpool fans really gave a toss about other teams, because we were the best and we were afforded the arrogance which allowed us to not really care about other clubs. There was a mild irritation in the 1980s towards Man UTD fans as they kept calling themselves "the biggest club in the world" as they finished 6th or 7th, usually 20 or 30 points behind us, but largely Man UTD were irrelevant to us back then.

As a long time fan I've only recently noticed the hostility towards the Mancs from us around the time of the launch of the Premiership and Man UTD's "marketing miracle".

As Maximus correctly says, Man UTD are no longer the benchmark, due to Chelsea's vast financial power and Arsenal's fantastic domestic form.

There was a poll last year (around November or December I think) in which a member of this forum posted a number of choices. They were directed at Everton. Basically the guy asked whether we'd prefer to see Everton relegated than win the Premiership ourselves. A couple of people voted for Everton to be relegated and I said that anyone who wanted Everton to be relegated ahead of Liverpool winning the league wasn't a proper Liverpool fan. I got slaughtered for that comment by certain quarters.

I still stand by that, and as much as I would hate it, I'd happily lose 10-0 at home and away to Manure and Everton if it meant we win the league. St. Michael said as much himself in another thread doing the rounds, and I think real fans of the club would put our club's success ahead of any petty rivalries.

[supersub]

Going back to the 70's and 80's we had our fair share of defeats by manu but won the league.Them beating us was their cup final but it was just another 2 points or 3 later on.I think the animosity came about because of the way history only started 10 years ago in the eyes of Sky.How often do you see a clip of a match or player on the t.v. that pre dates the premiership.I couldn't care a monkeys about Manu and thats why I'm happy to tolerate their fans come on here,as long as it's not vindictive.

[JBG]

Going back to the 70's and 80's we had our fair share of defeats by manu but won the league.Them beating us was their cup final but it was just another 2 points or 3 later on.I think the animosity came about because of the way history only started 10 years ago in the eyes of Sky.How often do you see a clip of a match or player on the t.v. that pre dates the premiership.I couldn't care a monkeys about Manu and thats why I'm happy to tolerate their fans come on here,as long as it's not vindictive.

I agree with that, Supersub.

Sky and Man UTD's admittedly fantastic success in the 1990s was a marraige made in heaven, with glamour players like Eric Contona, Dwight Yorke (at his peak), Mark Hughes and Ryan Giggs, as well as media whores like Beckham and controversial characters like Keane and Schmeichel. Sky marketed UTD heavily (by accident of era....if Sky had been around ten years earlier it would have been us), and as a result a hell of a lot of "life long" Man UTD fans started to appear out of the woodwork.

Sky have been deliberately running down pre-1992 English football, describing it as the "bad old days", which is frankly ridiculous seeing that the late 1970s and early to mid 1980s were the glory days of English football (and not the late 1960s when English teams were only middling in Europe, with the southern press hyping up the champagne lifestyles of Best and Moore) as the likes of Liverpool, Notts Forest and Villa beat all before them in Europe.

The bias Man UTD get annoys me at times, but we need to focus on re-building our club as THE name in England.

[taff]

Wasnt the first sky game us against Notts Forest.  Sky used football as their platform to challenge terrestial TV and the Mancs happened to have developed into the club of the 90's and in fairness they were sky or not.

At the time I hated their commercialism but to be honest now Im kinda jealous about it as it was inevitable to be honest and were still playing catch up

I dont believe that our players were cocky going into the game we were just turned over and couldnt develop our game plan In fact I think a lot of our problems has been lack of cockiness

Man Utd have always been a rival but personally I enjoy beating Everton more and I really had a thing about Wimbledon for years and Forest especially after knocking us out of Europe

I would hate to think about us getting wrapped up about them and playing them becoming our cup final and to be honest I was at the 3-3 game on the kop and it is worrying celebrating a draw even though I was going mad when Razor equalized

[woof woof !]

There was a time when Liverpool fans were acknowledged throughout the world for their humour,banter and appreciation of good football regardless of what team was playing it.
Sadly , those days seem to have gone. Many fans apparently now get more pleasure out of abusing rival teams and their supporters than they do from the actual game itself.
In a recent post I referred to a player who said "I don't mind when they boo me
it confirms that they fear me"  and I think that is the case with some fans in this forum , perhaps this constant stream of vitriol aimed at particularly Manu and more recently Chelsea is just a subconcious display of fear that those teams may beat our beloved LFC. Don't give them the satisfaction , lets just concentrate on shouting our own lads on and let the rest take care of itself.
Like many in here I think Keane is a right c unt and I wouldn't p iss on Ferguson if he was on fire BUT I'm not gonna waste my time talking about it because the bottom line is I don't really give a shi t about them. I'd rather get on with supporting LFC.

[Storm]

JBG

Some good posting there.

[A.B.]

Over the years Mancs have been proclaimed as the best team in England. That never bothered me because I knew that Liverpool dominated the 70's and the 80's until this year when Manchester had a poor start and were getting picked to get ahead of Arsenal,Chelsea,us and many others.

That is what angered me this year, in the past I didn't care at all but this year for some reason it annoys me when all I hear on Sky is how Manchester beat Norwich or how they had a draw with Blackburn. Why are those the main headlines? That angered me, and I've noticed that some think here that Mancs will get ahead of us this year thats why I compared our and their record so far this season.

We the fans haven't been showing that we're the best in the world, its been a long time since Anfield echoed with our songs.

Theres A Golden Sky
And The Sweet, Silver Song, of the Lark

[Leonmc0708]

Walk on through the wind, walk on thru the rain....