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[Lando_Griffin]

a lot of improvement needed....they arent gelling as a team.....defensively tho it was a big improvement, very impressed with Agger in particular....he gets better by the game and looks very confident, midfield not good at all, zenden was a passenger and pennant was v poor, aurelio was shocking, his corners were awful...a junior level footballer would have done better...up front Kuyt and Bellamy did well and look promising....sort out the midfield and things will get better. A xabi alonso playing well again is badly needed, and Stevie Gs role needs to be sorted This right midfield/centre midfield thing (In a way Rafa is spoiled for choice with Momo, Xabi and Stevie vying for two positions.....I dont buy into resting Stevie in a European game ..if he gets tired then take him off) Roll on Chelsea and the team Rafa decides to pick

Well the emergence of Agger could benefit us more than we suspect.

The "Gerrard problem" you refer to could be solved by playing the following 3-5-2 formation:

                                        Reina

                    JC                 Sami              Agger


                           Alonso                Sissoko

Pennant                            Gerrard                       Gonzalez

                              Crouch           Kuyt.


Defensively, Alonso and Sissoko can easily switch to the flanks to play as wing-backs, with Stevie dropping back as a central defensive midfielder, essentially giving us 2 banks of 3. Drop Pennant and Gonzalez back aswell, and we have a 5-3-2 formation, which allows for a quick break on the counter.

Finnan is obviously the fall-guy, and I can't really justify dropping him, so he could play instead of Pennant, giving more solidity to the righthand side.

Either way - it's a heck of a team.

Roy Evans would be very proud! 
pennant and gonzo as wingbacks? hmmm maybe finnan and aurelio tho

No mate - Alonso and SIssoko could spread from the centre and adopt wingback positions, while STevie drops back into a defensive midfield position, thus:

                                       Reina

                         JC           SAmi         Agger

Alonso                            Gerrard                        Sissoko


Pennant                                                              Gonzalez
                           Crouch               Kuyt.

Obviously only when defending.

i bet u play championship manager!

I bet you're wrong.

Surely you can see the logic behind it?

An attacking lineup that can switch to a defensive formation in 2 seconds flat.

Surely that is what every manager would like?

[Lando_Griffin]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

[Bad Bob]

Just as a point of interest, Gerrard was also rested for our first group stage game last season (away to Betis) so it is not without precedent.

[Feyenoorder]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

When you're referring to winning the Champions League and his time with Valencia you can say he has some pedigree off course...    

Maybe I'm just an old sod who thinks that the way the game is played is more important than winning a prize. I loved the way Liverpool played back in the eightees, attack after attack with an English heart and "European" cleverness (instead of the not so smart "kick and rush"). I don't believe there was a rotation system then although Liverpool played also a lot of games (10 games less than now?), it just came down to the best team... But to be honest: we didn't have cable tv in Holland back then. My memory is based on European games and short clips from league games so maybe my view upon those days is a bit too romantic...  

Anyway, to me it's weird to see Liverpool play so defensively now in away games, I even wonder if it isn't against the club's culture... Am I totally wrong here?

[anti-hero]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

When you're referring to winning the Champions League and his time with Valencia you can say he has some pedigree off course...    

Maybe I'm just an old sod who thinks that the way the game is played is more important than winning a prize. I loved the way Liverpool played back in the eightees, attack after attack with an English heart and "European" cleverness (instead of the not so smart "kick and rush"). I don't believe there was a rotation system then although Liverpool played also a lot of games (10 games less than now?), it just came down to the best team... But to be honest: we didn't have cable tv in Holland back then. My memory is based on European games and short clips from league games so maybe my view upon those days is a bit too romantic...  

Anyway, to me it's weird to see Liverpool play so defensively now in away games, I even wonder if it isn't against the club's culture... Am I totally wrong here?

But would it matter if you won?

I assume, that you're Dutch of course...

that you champion a brand of attacking pass and move football, with flair and style so reminscent of Total Football..

I dont think Liverpool ever played with flair. And if they did, its obvious I was too young to remember.   We played for the win and if given a choice, I would take a 1-0 win over any flamboyant display of football.

I love it when teams get all tactical.

Plus, I think Johan Cruyff (sp) once said that Liverpool were the assasins of football.

Or was that Franz Beckebauer?

But I knew someone said that.

[Bad Bob]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

When you're referring to winning the Champions League and his time with Valencia you can say he has some pedigree off course...    

Maybe I'm just an old sod who thinks that the way the game is played is more important than winning a prize. I loved the way Liverpool played back in the eightees, attack after attack with an English heart and "European" cleverness (instead of the not so smart "kick and rush"). I don't believe there was a rotation system then although Liverpool played also a lot of games (10 games less than now?), it just came down to the best team... But to be honest: we didn't have cable tv in Holland back then. My memory is based on European games and short clips from league games so maybe my view upon those days is a bit too romantic...  

Anyway, to me it's weird to see Liverpool play so defensively now in away games, I even wonder if it isn't against the club's culture... Am I totally wrong here?

It was always going to happen, mate.  We've been leaking goals like a sieve so far this season and our offense has been sporadic.  A pragmatic draw is a good strategy given how we've been playing, how many new lads are bedding into the side and given the lack of coherent training sessions due to international breaks.  Plus, there's a little matter of playing Chelsea in the league on Sunday--a game that is shaping up to be a key moment for our title hopes, even at this early stage.

Not to fear.  Once we've got more games under our belt and sorted out our defensive frailties I predict you'll start seeing a much more swashbuckling Liverpool side.  By the time PSV comes to Anfield, we'll be an entirely different proposition. 

[Feyenoorder]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

When you're referring to winning the Champions League and his time with Valencia you can say he has some pedigree off course...    

Maybe I'm just an old sod who thinks that the way the game is played is more important than winning a prize. I loved the way Liverpool played back in the eightees, attack after attack with an English heart and "European" cleverness (instead of the not so smart "kick and rush"). I don't believe there was a rotation system then although Liverpool played also a lot of games (10 games less than now?), it just came down to the best team... But to be honest: we didn't have cable tv in Holland back then. My memory is based on European games and short clips from league games so maybe my view upon those days is a bit too romantic...  

Anyway, to me it's weird to see Liverpool play so defensively now in away games, I even wonder if it isn't against the club's culture... Am I totally wrong here?

But would it matter if you won?

I assume, that you're Dutch of course...

that you champion a brand of attacking pass and move football, with flair and style so reminscent of Total Football..

I dont think Liverpool ever played with flair. And if they did, its obvious I was too young to remember.   We played for the win and if given a choice, I would take a 1-0 win over any flamboyant display of football.

I love it when teams get all tactical.

Plus, I think Johan Cruyff (sp) once said that Liverpool were the assasins of football.

Or was that Franz Beckebauer?

But I knew someone said that.

Yes I'm Dutch and yes I loved "total football" but that was once and only possible because of the coincedence that Holland possessed a lot of good and intelligent players like Cruyff, van Hanegem, Jansen and so on. I don't believe that I will ever see so much talent in one squad ever again.

But Liverpool had it's own style and flair in the '80s. Kevin Keegan was a marvellous, skillfull and intelligent player for example, it was fun to watch him and his team play, even for someone who wasn't a Liverpuddlian... If you're too young to remember those days, well, maybe you should buy some dvd's...     

[Feyenoorder]

Hmm StMichael, you're right about Hiddink but I don't think Benitez is on the same level when it comes to tactics.

Are you p*ssed? 

Maybe I was Lando but after last nights match I'm all sobered up... What a boring game, psv couldn't play any better and Liverpool did not really want to play ball thanks to Benitez who instructed that at least 8 or 9 players kept playing "behind the ball".  I heard Kuyt this morning on Dutch radio and he said that Liverpool succeeded in their mission (knowing that Cocu wasn't going to play) to prevent psv playing a faster game and taking out the supposed danger from Kone and Farfan.

In my opinion Liverpool should have slaughtered psv. The midfield was up for grabs (psv played with little kids like Afellay and Aisattie...) and instead of running backwards all the time they should have moved forward keeping pressure on the defense of psv and support Bellamy and Kuyt in a better way.

The way Liverpool played reminded me of the good old Italian "catenaccio" and that was totally unnecessary against a weakened opponent. Also, a good beating could have helped my club Feyenoord who are playing against psv next sunday...   

So far for the supposed tactical genius of Benitez, I hope for you guys he'll do a lot better next match...

Well he has got a bit of a pedigree in Europe, wouldn't you say?

DO you not think you may be being a little harsh when we were playing last seasons semi-finalists away, having just played our bitter rivals, and about to play the Champions of England away?

No matter how much people get paid, they'll never be superhuman.

When you're referring to winning the Champions League and his time with Valencia you can say he has some pedigree off course...    

Maybe I'm just an old sod who thinks that the way the game is played is more important than winning a prize. I loved the way Liverpool played back in the eightees, attack after attack with an English heart and "European" cleverness (instead of the not so smart "kick and rush"). I don't believe there was a rotation system then although Liverpool played also a lot of games (10 games less than now?), it just came down to the best team... But to be honest: we didn't have cable tv in Holland back then. My memory is based on European games and short clips from league games so maybe my view upon those days is a bit too romantic...  

Anyway, to me it's weird to see Liverpool play so defensively now in away games, I even wonder if it isn't against the club's culture... Am I totally wrong here?

It was always going to happen, mate.  We've been leaking goals like a sieve so far this season and our offense has been sporadic.  A pragmatic draw is a good strategy given how we've been playing, how many new lads are bedding into the side and given the lack of coherent training sessions due to international breaks.  Plus, there's a little matter of playing Chelsea in the league on Sunday--a game that is shaping up to be a key moment for our title hopes, even at this early stage.

Not to fear.  Once we've got more games under our belt and sorted out our defensive frailties I predict you'll start seeing a much more swashbuckling Liverpool side.  By the time PSV comes to Anfield, we'll be an entirely different proposition. 

I can understand that a manager plays more defensive when there are some bad results and more trust amongst the players is needed. If that's the case then that's fine with me. But to me Benitez is a manager who plays this way because he likes it and that's something different. Tonnie Bruins Slot (the assistant of Ronald Koeman now and the assistant of Johan Cruyff at Barcelona years ago) described Benitez as a typical Spanish manager. He said that Benitez always thinks about defense first, especially in away games. At home there's more lust to attack (he mentioned "kick and rush") but still Benitez is thinking in a defensive way. He didn't mean this in a negative way (he didn't refer to the "boring Arsenal" from earlier days...) but he made his views clear by showing the goals from Everton-Liverpool. "There's no forward defending, just defenders running backwards which helps the attackers of Everton to get near the goal".

Anyway, next time I hope I'll see a Liverpool that will finish of p$v!     But it will not be easy when Kluivert is back on his natural level, when Cocu is using his brains and when new players like Salcido and Mendez are familiar with the team and their game. We'll see and have a chat later. Thanks for replying!

[XSD]

Lay off Oasis..

  Do you want the boot aswell?

Nah.. not really..

Its just that the guy gets so much flak, you actually have to feel for him.

I dont think he's posing as a Liverpool fan..

I dont think he's a wind-up merchant..

He's just another fan, but with more "controversial" views.

If you like Mexico aswell, fuck off to Mexican forums simple.
Because you nor him are Liverpool fans so you are not wanted here and I think I speak for the majority on this.

sorry to backtrack through this topic but since the same damn argument ruins every thread I want to at least know one reason for it.

ciggy can you justify that comment, regardless of what someone else says how can you judge whether anyone is or isn't a liverpool fan? If bill shankly spoke to someone for 2 hours and then said they aren't a liverpool fan I'd probably believe him. However I think you are getting slightly above yourself.

[woof woof !]

ciggy can you justify that comment, regardless of what someone else says how can you judge whether anyone is or isn't a liverpool fan? If bill shankly spoke to someone for 2 hours and then said they aren't a liverpool fan I'd probably believe him. However I think you are getting slightly above yourself.

XSD , can you justify that obsevation ? Surely for you to think that Ciggy is getting "slightly above herself " is to commit the same act that you accuse her of, ie judge somebody without really knowing them. Of course  you may have enough knowledge of Ciggy to ascertain her exact status, but somehow I doubt it.  .

[Ciggy]

sorry to backtrack through this topic

So why did you then? FFS it was days ago.

Anyway my beef was with Oasis admiring the Mexican players that where playing against us in the PSV game, that would be like me saying Kevin Nolan, Wayne Rooney, Joey Barton etc are great when they play against us just cause they come from where I do.

Thats what p.issed me off.

[112-1077774096]

But Liverpool had it's own style and flair in the '80s. Kevin Keegan was a marvellous, skillfull and intelligent player for example, it was fun to watch him and his team play, even for someone who wasn't a Liverpuddlian... If you're too young to remember those days, well, maybe you should buy some dvd's...     

it seems that you may actually be too young to remember those days, if you can find a dvd with keegan playing for liverpool in the 80's i will send you 50 quid, he left us in 1977 and moved to hamburg

[XSD]

sorry to backtrack through this topic

So why did you then? FFS it was days ago.

Anyway my beef was with Oasis admiring the Mexican players that where playing against us in the PSV game, that would be like me saying Kevin Nolan, Wayne Rooney, Joey Barton etc are great when they play against us just cause they come from where I do.

Thats what p.issed me off.

Joey Barton, Wayne Rooney and Kevin Nolan are all good players and I don't see why anyone should have any problem with you make an observation to that effect. People should all be entitled to post something related to the match without having their loyalty as a supporter questioned.

and woof woof I like your effort but your logic is slightly flawed