Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

The one thing about those rankings isnt fickle at all - all made up of results of a sustanined period of time - so nothing fickle about them .

[taff]

Im not a huge fan of those rankings especially as we havent won the league.  I agree with Bigmick there to be honest.  But I also agree with Rafa in that clubs still seem to think we are not a top european side, but am sure that Real Madrid have changed their view

[tonyeh]

Yep, position in the Premiership league table is the only ranking that really matters.

[GYBS]

Does the improvement of other clubs have to be taken into consideration as well ?

[Sir Roger]

The problem is that the strongest league right now is the English, and, in order to do the "simple" task of being regularly the best team of England, you have to beat the likes of Manchester United.

This archrival, has been doing things well for a long time, and getting past them isn't an easy task. Man U's success is a consequence of things well done, and getting to that level is not exactly easy.

It's difficult, because each time you get Anfield crowded you have a 1.5M income, and they have 3 everytime they get Old Trafford crowded. It's difficult, because just as you have the pressure off in Europe because you've shown already what you had to show, the Mancs have not the pressure in the league.

Now, you can dismiss all this as "excuses", I won't blame anyone who wants always to improve. But mate, before Rafa, we had non rotating managers, we had this excellent crowd, we had Gerrard too, we had a lot of things, but we were without winning the title in 15 years.

My point is simple, I'm not a fortune teller and I don't know if Rafa will bring it to us. But I know he's working well, and building up an important team with less resources than the Man U. I see Liverpool getting closer, this year we've been dreaming of the league longer.

If I don't see this progress continuing, then I'll become an anti Rafa. I would like this progress being faster, I would like to have 300M to spend in order not to need 5 year plans, but we don't have that money available. In my view ambition is good, but greed and the false impression that this slow progress is easy to achieve, could bring Liverpool to darker times.

I don't know if another manager will do it better, but I think it's not easy doing it better.

I see a lot of fans thinking that "with another manager" that draw would have been a victory. But I don't see fans wondering if that other manager would have convinced Torres to come to Anfield when Manchester were offering MORE money.

It's difficult mate, at least for me, all this is not as obvious as many think around here.

If what you say is true, with all things taken into consideration, then Rafa is his own worst enemy.
I dont believe that buying the best players makes for the most success. Look at the galacticos at Real a few years ago. Whats missing from Rafas team is down more so to his philosophy and his inability to put together a squad which can sustain a serious challenge on the league. We know he can do it in the CL.
Why not in the league? Money? I thinks thats only a small part of the answer.
What he does with the players he buys? Thats probably more like it.
If Rafa had no restrictions and bought the players he truly wanted, would he pick his strongest eleven consistantly?
Would he play them in their preferred positions and to their strengths?
Would he try to build up stability and understanding by forging partnerships throughout the team, each player knowing and trusting that his colleague would be where he was supposed to be and doing his job properly?
Would he drop any of them if they scored in the previous match?
I dont know
Do you?

[kazza]

when you've just beaten real Madrid 5-0 on aggregate you don't need to refer to poxy rankings. The recoprd speaks for itself.

He said it before the match

[bigmick]

He did say it before the match, but the interview which I watched was after the match. So then, he said it both before and after the match, which IMHO is a bit of overkill. Feck the "ranking" as I say, we've just beaten Real Madrid 5-0. He also said we are ranked "number one in Europe" which given we haven't won out Home title for 20 seasons, just sounds a bit straw clutchy to me.

[kunilson]

straw clutchy lol.....brilliant


but its true, we aren't the best in Europe, we are the best in the competition though over 5 years.....if we did win the premiership in the last 5 years and finish runners up more often then id believe it. he just wants more respect though, and that was something he used to back him up that's all

[kazza]

He did say it before the match, but the interview which I watched was after the match. So then, he said it both before and after the match, which IMHO is a bit of overkill. Feck the "ranking" as I say, we've just beaten Real Madrid 5-0. He also said we are ranked "number one in Europe" which given we haven't won out Home title for 20 seasons, just sounds a bit straw clutchy to me.

Straw clutchy , hmmm! Like trying to find fault with Raffa's performance against Madrid     

[bigmick]

He did say it before the match, but the interview which I watched was after the match. So then, he said it both before and after the match, which IMHO is a bit of overkill. Feck the "ranking" as I say, we've just beaten Real Madrid 5-0. He also said we are ranked "number one in Europe" which given we haven't won out Home title for 20 seasons, just sounds a bit straw clutchy to me.

Straw clutchy , hmmm! Like trying to find fault with Raffa's performance against Madrid     

Whoever did, is definately a straw clutcher of the highest order.

[Sir Roger]

straw clutchy lol.....brilliant


but its true, we aren't the best in Europe, we are the best in the competition though over 5 years.....if we did win the premiership in the last 5 years and finish runners up more often then id believe it. he just wants more respect though, and that was something he used to back him up that's all

He will get the respect he rightly deserves when he wins the Premier and not before.
He deserves the respect he gets for the CL but cannot seriously expect respect for his woeful attempts on the league.
Can he?

[NANNY RED]

straw clutchy lol.....brilliant


but its true, we aren't the best in Europe, we are the best in the competition though over 5 years.....if we did win the premiership in the last 5 years and finish runners up more often then id believe it. he just wants more respect though, and that was something he used to back him up that's all

He will get the respect he rightly deserves when he wins the Premier and not before.
He deserves the respect he gets for the CL but cannot seriously expect respect for his woeful attempts on the league.
Can he?

Harsh that imo. But according to Carra hes not doing a bad job at all

[account deleted by request]

I think what the game against Madrid did do, was show us just how much better we can play when the desire, motivation and inspiration are all there.

I honestly believe that we actually played better last season than we have this season in the league. We have had a few more little things like own goals and red cards go our way this season than last, but our football performances were better last season.

Riera when he came brought a balance to the side this season that hinted there were better things to come, but unfortunately his form dropped off, the end product has been few and far between, and the early promise never quite materialise into full blown threat.Similarly with our form we laboured, looked on occasion like we would soon hit top form but never quite managed it. There were moments when we looked like it was just around the corner, but it was more inspired by being a goal down than inspirational football.   

I think we are 5 points better off than we were after the same number of games last season. Progress or just a few red cards and a bit of luck that we didn't get the previous season? Certainly we have done much better against the other top sides this season. We have beaten the mancs, Chelsea twice and drawn against Arsenal, but are we really any nearer to finding a way to beat the rest of the league?

Is the squad better balanced than last season, do we have better players to bring on when we need them ? To me the answer is unfortunately no. We have gaps in the squad that wern't there last season, options and a plan "B" which we no longer have this season, and more imortantly in my huge question marks against a few players who we hoped would step up this season.

If we are ever to win the league we need more than tactical nouse in my opinion, the desire, motivation and inspiration has to be there, and too many times this season we have seen for league games our performances have been flat, stilted and passionless.

[stmichael]

I think what the game against Madrid did do, was show us just how much better we can play when the desire, motivation and inspiration are all there.

I honestly believe that we actually played better last season than we have this season in the league. We have had a few more little things like own goals and red cards go our way this season than last, but our football performances were better last season.

Riera when he came brought a balance to the side this season that hinted there were better things to come, but unfortunately his form dropped off, the end product has been few and far between, and the early promise never quite materialise into full blown threat.Similarly with our form we laboured, looked on occasion like we would soon hit top form but never quite managed it. There were moments when we looked like it was just around the corner, but it was more inspired by being a goal down than inspirational football.   

I think we are 5 points better off than we were after the same number of games last season. Progress or just a few red cards and a bit of luck that we didn't get the previous season? Certainly we have done much better against the other top sides this season. We have beaten the mancs, Chelsea twice and drawn against Arsenal, but are we really any nearer to finding a way to beat the rest of the league?

Is the squad better balanced than last season, do we have better players to bring on when we need them ? To me the answer is unfortunately no. We have gaps in the squad that wern't there last season, options and a plan "B" which we no longer have this season, and more imortantly in my huge question marks against a few players who we hoped would step up this season.

If we are ever to win the league we need more than tactical nouse in my opinion, the desire, motivation and inspiration has to be there, and too many times this season we have seen for league games our performances have been flat, stilted and passionless.

It's a good post. If you go back to last season, when we employed the 4-2-3-1 system I don't think you'd have found any fan who was unhappy with the way we were playing. We played some really good stuff from February onwards in a system that got the best out of the players at our disposal.

The problem we’ve had this season is that Torres has been injured for most of it. I think him and Gerrard have started something like 8 games together in the league, and for half of those Torres has been working his way back to fitness. When you’ve got only two world class attackers they really need to be fit for most of the season. Tuesday night was the perfect storm really – Torres and Gerrard both on form, Babel played well (another problem that he’s horrendously inconsistent) Kuyt played well – some of his passing was brilliant (he’s better suited to Europe where he has more space and time on the ball and his first touch is not so much of a liability.)

I think you can justifiably question Rafa’s outlook for some league games but I don’t think it’s the major problem as some seem to, it’s a contributing factor. As far as I'm concerned we don’t need a whole revamp in outlook or personnel anyway. We just need one or two better players to offer more consistent threat from the wide positions, so that if Torres or Gerrard are injured or rested the drop off isn’t so huge.

[Sir Roger]

I think what the game against Madrid did do, was show us just how much better we can play when the desire, motivation and inspiration are all there.

I honestly believe that we actually played better last season than we have this season in the league. We have had a few more little things like own goals and red cards go our way this season than last, but our football performances were better last season.

Riera when he came brought a balance to the side this season that hinted there were better things to come, but unfortunately his form dropped off, the end product has been few and far between, and the early promise never quite materialise into full blown threat.Similarly with our form we laboured, looked on occasion like we would soon hit top form but never quite managed it. There were moments when we looked like it was just around the corner, but it was more inspired by being a goal down than inspirational football.   

I think we are 5 points better off than we were after the same number of games last season. Progress or just a few red cards and a bit of luck that we didn't get the previous season? Certainly we have done much better against the other top sides this season. We have beaten the mancs, Chelsea twice and drawn against Arsenal, but are we really any nearer to finding a way to beat the rest of the league?

Is the squad better balanced than last season, do we have better players to bring on when we need them ? To me the answer is unfortunately no. We have gaps in the squad that wern't there last season, options and a plan "B" which we no longer have this season, and more imortantly in my huge question marks against a few players who we hoped would step up this season.

If we are ever to win the league we need more than tactical nouse in my opinion, the desire, motivation and inspiration has to be there, and too many times this season we have seen for league games our performances have been flat, stilted and passionless.

It's a good post. If you go back to last season, when we employed the 4-2-3-1 system I don't think you'd have found any fan who was unhappy with the way we were playing. We played some really good stuff from February onwards in a system that got the best out of the players at our disposal.

The problem we’ve had this season is that Torres has been injured for most of it. I think him and Gerrard have started something like 8 games together in the league, and for half of those Torres has been working his way back to fitness. When you’ve got only two world class attackers they really need to be fit for most of the season. Tuesday night was the perfect storm really – Torres and Gerrard both on form, Babel played well (another problem that he’s horrendously inconsistent) Kuyt played well – some of his passing was brilliant (he’s better suited to Europe where he has more space and time on the ball and his first touch is not so much of a liability.)

I think you can justifiably question Rafa’s outlook for some league games but I don’t think it’s the major problem as some seem to, it’s a contributing factor. As far as I'm concerned we don’t need a whole revamp in outlook or personnel anyway. We just need one or two better players to offer more consistent threat from the wide positions, so that if Torres or Gerrard are injured or rested the drop off isn’t so huge.

Two good posts

"Desire, motivation and inspiration" for me comes down ultimately to one person: the boss, the gaffer, the manager whatever you want to call him. When we look at many performances in the  league compared to the CL we can see the difference. He is in sole control and this needs to be addressed before we can step up.
I accept that injuries have gone against us but the "plan b" approach was dead as soon as keane was fuc.ked off
"Rafa’s outlook" therefore is a major contributor to where we end up, and whether or not there is new personnel waiting in the wings we would hope that Rafa has now seen the error of his ways (his attention to detail will come in useful there) and can put together a squad which will seriously challenge for the title next season