Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

Still wondering where all these KEY signings are that Houllier made that are still playing for us.

If you named Liverpools strongest team how many would be Houllier players :- Finnan, Carra, Riise (arguably) Gerrard, and Kewell. Agger would be chosen ahead of Hyypia now but is still not as good as the Hyypia of 2 or 3 years ago.

Thats half a team, not bad considering Rafa has spent over £100million on strengthening the team.

Rafael Benítez bought 45 players for £126,296,000
Gerard Houllier bought 40 players for £125,400,000

People keep throwing Gerrard and Carragher into the mix as KEY SIGNINGS. Houllier didn't sign them , they came through the ranks.

That leaves us with Finnan and Riise, admittedly solid(most of the time) but hardly KEY and Hyypia deffo a key signing.


Christ sake, if Houllier was so f'ucking wonderful and taking us in the right direction how come we got rid of him ? . IMO he spent millions on average talent which thankfully we finally got rid of. Rafa may drive me nuts but imo we're in far better hands and in significantly better shape than we were the day Houllier finally f'ucked off.

I think the key here is Houllier wasn't THAT wonderful mate 

Think about it

[LFC2007]

In July this year, Heimdall said:

Are you high or something, you are talking utter sh1t.

Rafa is a far far better manager than Houllier. Rafa got us to two Champions league finals, one of which we won, Houllier got us the UEFA cup where we played a horrible match and only just won. Also the league is much tougher now than it was under Houllier, didn't Rafa get us a record points tally the season before last and we still finished 3rd!

Totally agree, Rafa is doing a fine job

[66-1112520797]

See ya Connovar.

[Bad Bob]

Houllier didn't take over in the summer of 1998 Bob so unfortunately your list is meaningless, sorry mate . If you call it 3 years YOU WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE  A SUPERCUP AND A CHARITY SHIELD MATE

From .tv:

GERARD HOULLIER OBE
Former Clubs as Staff : Le Touquet, Arras, Noeux-les-Mines, Lens, Paris St Germain

Date of Birth : 03/10/1947
Birthplace : Therouanne
Joined : 1998

PROFILE
Though born in Therouanne, France, Gerard Houllier OBE has a long history of supporting Liverpool. It started in September 1969, when he was teaching at Alsop school in Walton. He stood on the Kop and watched the Reds defeat Dundalk 10-0.

In July 1998, Houllier returned to the city when he was appointed joint manager of the Reds alongside Roy Evans.

Gerard began his managerial career in 1973 as player-coach with Le Touquet. Spells at Arras and Noeux Les Mines followed before he managed Lens for three years and then guided Paris St.Germain to the French title in 1986.

Gerard then became Technical Director and assistant to the French national team, before becoming National Coach himself until 1994. He also coached the French team who won the European Under-18 Championship in 1996, and took the U-20s to the quarter-finals of the World Championships the following year. He also played an instrumental role in France winning the World Cup in 1998.

His managerial talents were much sought after during the summer of 1998 and Liverpool had to move swiftly to secure his services. At first Houllier was joint manager with Roy Evans but when that didn't work, Evans left the club in November 1998.

Houllier assumed sole control and in the summer of 1999 he launched an extensive programme of team rebuilding.

Success followed and in February 2001 he guided the Reds to a first trophy in six years, his first as the Reds won the Worthington Cup. He followed that by leading the Reds to the historic treble and five trophies in 2001, including the FA Cup, UEFA Cup, UEFA Super Cup and Charity Shield.

He had major heart surgery in October 2001 but returned to managerial duties in March 2002 against Roma at Anfield, as the team finished second in the Barclays Premiership in 2001/02 and reached the quarter-final of the Champions League.

Houllier led the team to another Worthington Cup success before he was awarded the prestigious OBE in 2003.

The folllowing season he guided the Reds to Champions League qualification but saw his six-year tenure as Anfield chief curtailed on 24 May 2004.

------
Saint, for the sake of the argument about the cups, let's forget that first season of Houllier's and add the 2001/2002 season.  That would bring, Houllier's Supercup and Charity Shield into the mix.  As Rafa won both of those as well and as they are both somewhat tin-pot cups, we're left with weighing up a CL win and a FA Cup win (Rafa) against the UEFA/FA/League Cup treble (Houllier).  You know what, I still think Rafa's achievements in the cups are more impressive and that's before I factor in reaching another CL final, which I still value very, very highly.  Feel free to disagree but that's my opinion on the cup comparison.

I wasn't really arguing about the cups Bob, I was just suggesting that to win 3 cups in one season and to go unbeaten in any cup all season ,was perhaps as great an achievment as winning the CL, but without the obvious prestige that you get for winning the CL.

HOULLIER

Birthdate:  03.09.1947
Birthplace: Lille, France
Other clubs as manager: Noeux Les Mines, Lens, Paris St. Germain, France Football Federation, Lyon
Arrived from: France Football Fed.
Signed for LFC:  12.11.1998
First game in charge: 14.11.1998
Contract expiry: 24.05.2004
LFC league games as manager: 216
Total LFC games as manager: 307
Honours: F.A. cup winners 2001
League cup winners 2001, 2003
UEFA cup winners 2001

Fair enough, mate.  And, for the record, I do think the Treble was a great achievement.  I just think Rafa did more!


Purely to be an a.rse and play devil's advocate for a moment I wonder that if we are not going to count the 1998-99 season as Houllier's first, given that he was not in sole charge of the team until November (3+ months in) should we also discount the 2001-2002 season, when his heart problems kept him away from the action for virtually the same length of time?

[account deleted by request]

Houllier didn't take over in the summer of 1998 Bob so unfortunately your list is meaningless, sorry mate . If you call it 3 years YOU WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE  A SUPERCUP AND A CHARITY SHIELD MATE

From .tv:

GERARD HOULLIER OBE
Former Clubs as Staff : Le Touquet, Arras, Noeux-les-Mines, Lens, Paris St Germain

Date of Birth : 03/10/1947
Birthplace : Therouanne
Joined : 1998

PROFILE
Though born in Therouanne, France, Gerard Houllier OBE has a long history of supporting Liverpool. It started in September 1969, when he was teaching at Alsop school in Walton. He stood on the Kop and watched the Reds defeat Dundalk 10-0.

In July 1998, Houllier returned to the city when he was appointed joint manager of the Reds alongside Roy Evans.

Gerard began his managerial career in 1973 as player-coach with Le Touquet. Spells at Arras and Noeux Les Mines followed before he managed Lens for three years and then guided Paris St.Germain to the French title in 1986.

Gerard then became Technical Director and assistant to the French national team, before becoming National Coach himself until 1994. He also coached the French team who won the European Under-18 Championship in 1996, and took the U-20s to the quarter-finals of the World Championships the following year. He also played an instrumental role in France winning the World Cup in 1998.

His managerial talents were much sought after during the summer of 1998 and Liverpool had to move swiftly to secure his services. At first Houllier was joint manager with Roy Evans but when that didn't work, Evans left the club in November 1998.

Houllier assumed sole control and in the summer of 1999 he launched an extensive programme of team rebuilding.

Success followed and in February 2001 he guided the Reds to a first trophy in six years, his first as the Reds won the Worthington Cup. He followed that by leading the Reds to the historic treble and five trophies in 2001, including the FA Cup, UEFA Cup, UEFA Super Cup and Charity Shield.

He had major heart surgery in October 2001 but returned to managerial duties in March 2002 against Roma at Anfield, as the team finished second in the Barclays Premiership in 2001/02 and reached the quarter-final of the Champions League.

Houllier led the team to another Worthington Cup success before he was awarded the prestigious OBE in 2003.

The folllowing season he guided the Reds to Champions League qualification but saw his six-year tenure as Anfield chief curtailed on 24 May 2004.

------
Saint, for the sake of the argument about the cups, let's forget that first season of Houllier's and add the 2001/2002 season.  That would bring, Houllier's Supercup and Charity Shield into the mix.  As Rafa won both of those as well and as they are both somewhat tin-pot cups, we're left with weighing up a CL win and a FA Cup win (Rafa) against the UEFA/FA/League Cup treble (Houllier).  You know what, I still think Rafa's achievements in the cups are more impressive and that's before I factor in reaching another CL final, which I still value very, very highly.  Feel free to disagree but that's my opinion on the cup comparison.

I wasn't really arguing about the cups Bob, I was just suggesting that to win 3 cups in one season and to go unbeaten in any cup all season ,was perhaps as great an achievment as winning the CL, but without the obvious prestige that you get for winning the CL.

HOULLIER

Birthdate:  03.09.1947
Birthplace: Lille, France
Other clubs as manager: Noeux Les Mines, Lens, Paris St. Germain, France Football Federation, Lyon
Arrived from: France Football Fed.
Signed for LFC:  12.11.1998
First game in charge: 14.11.1998
Contract expiry: 24.05.2004
LFC league games as manager: 216
Total LFC games as manager: 307
Honours: F.A. cup winners 2001
League cup winners 2001, 2003
UEFA cup winners 2001

Fair enough, mate.  And, for the record, I do think the Treble was a great achievement.  I just think Rafa did more!


Purely to be an a.rse and play devil's advocate for a moment I wonder that if we are not going to count the 1998-99 season as Houllier's first, given that he was not in sole charge of the team until November (3+ months in) should we also discount the 2001-2002 season, when his heart problems kept him away from the action for virtually the same length of time?

Fair enough mate - That brings in another cup for Houllier then 

[Bad Bob]

Fair enough mate - That brings in another cup for Houllier then 

Your defence of the man is admirable, mate.  What happened?  Houllier buy you a few pints in town one night?  You must have told him you wer Irish! 

[account deleted by request]

Fair enough mate - That brings in another cup for Houllier then 

Your defence of the man is admirable, mate.  What happened?  Houllier buy you a few pints in town one night?  You must have told him you wer Irish! 

I was hoping someone would convince me that we are making actual progress and that all my worries are needless and groundless.

I am still waiting 

[woof woof !]

I was hoping someone would convince me that we are making actual progress and that all my worries are needless and groundless.

I am still waiting 

Diouff and Diao are no longer with us .

[account deleted by request]

I was hoping someone would convince me that we are making actual progress and that all my worries are needless and groundless.

I am still waiting 

Diouff and Diao are no longer with us .

  Well at least thats a start Woof

[Leonmc0708]

Fair enough mate - That brings in another cup for Houllier then 

Your defence of the man is admirable, mate.  What happened?  Houllier buy you a few pints in town one night?  You must have told him you wer Irish! 

I was hoping someone would convince me that we are making actual progress and that all my worries are needless and groundless.

I am still waiting 

Are you serious or are you fishing here mate ?

[account deleted by request]

Fair enough mate - That brings in another cup for Houllier then 

Your defence of the man is admirable, mate.  What happened?  Houllier buy you a few pints in town one night?  You must have told him you wer Irish! 

I was hoping someone would convince me that we are making actual progress and that all my worries are needless and groundless.

I am still waiting 

Are you serious or are you fishing here mate ?

Bit of both really Leon, I am serious about wanting to see actual progress, tongue firmly in cheek about the respective merits.

[redtrader74]

It was Thommo that won us the treble!!!

[dawson99]

which team would u ratehr watch? rafas or houlliers XI?

i think rafas is betetr to watch, so i say progress

[account deleted by request]

which team would u ratehr watch? rafas or houlliers XI?

i think rafas is betetr to watch, so i say progress

So we should get Evans back as manager then Dawson ? We were certainly a more attractive side to watch under Roy. (If you didn't mind losing that is    )

[bigmick]

I'm very surprised that people are prepared to debate the relative merits of Houllier and Benitez. To me there is absolutely no comparison. Though I frequently disagree with Rafa's methodology and have doubts about whether he will eventually deliver the League title, he is in a different stratosphere to Houllier in my opinion.

That aside, the debate threw up some interesting points. Saint (who along with his tricky striker and how much Wenger has spent things is making a bit of a knack of opening up cans of worms at the moment ) made a very good point about rotational managers needing more players and therefore more money, to build a squad of 22 rather than a squad of 16 with 8 "emergencies".

It could certainly be argued with the emergence of Lucas and the moving of Gerrard inside that we are probably a bit top heavy on central midfielders. This is even more so when you compare our lack of centre back or left wing cover, or even strikers as long as Crouch remains in Coventry. It's probably a fair criticism of Rafa that were he not so obsessed with the "squad" and his rotation, then by definition we could have spent heavier on the first team. It's an interesting point for sure.

The other thing was the emergence through the ranks of Gerrard and Carragher (although in the latter case Rafa can take huge cerdit IMHO for the players developement). To have a one genuinely World Class player, (two if you consider Owen at his peak) and another who would get in pretty much most teams in the league come through for free is an absolute Godsend. Gerrard in todays market would be absolutely any price you care to name, while even at his age Carragher wouldn't come cheap. You would certainly be getting a bargain if you picked up both for less than 50 million squid.

When it happended at Arsenal in the early nineties with Adams, Rocastle, Merson etc they formed a title wining team off the back of it. Manure did the same, building a dynasty off the back of the Beckham, Giggs, Neville era. Should we fail to make the final step, amongst the many rregrets we would have when looking back over this period is that a couple of the very finest homegrown players in our entire history haven't finished their careers with the medals their talents deserved.