Liverpool FC Forum

[fritzylfc]

is the premiership the league what  its cracked up to be? arsenal streets ahead. the rest 2nd rate. to lose 8 to 10 games a season is that good enough?

[cheesecakery]

yeah but arsenal cheated

[LFC #1]

did they? i think it was a certain Ruud Van Nistlerooy that missed the penalty in the last minute that would have stopped arsenal's run a long time ago.

[115-1073096938]

There isn't as big a gap between Newcastle and Liverpool and the top three as what this season has shown. That gap will be closed over the summer imo.

The gap that is going to keep getting better imo is the one between 5th and 6th.

Liverpool are only probably 3 or 4 (tops) players away from being able to challenge in europe, Newcastle lack world class players but again aren't that far off.

[Dalglish]

Hi Stu, how long have we been saying this "We lack 2/3 or 4 top class players to challenge " Its not a criticism cos your right but we have gone backwards in terms of buying reall quiality.

Take last summer, we get Kewell, arguably the bargain on the summer and I KNOW he was injured this season but we haven't sen anywhere like the level he was playing to at Leeds ...... Finnon I rate highly and we look solid when he is in the back four but he's not as forward driving as we were led to believe is he !!!!


My point is how come We (LFC) purchase known qaulity players only to see them become ordinary except for brief flashes of brilliance Add Diouf and  Diao (15 Milion for the pair), to that list !!!

[115-1073096938]

hmmm... you ******? lol

Finnan and Kewell have both not shown there true worth as of yet. Both have shown Glimpses. For me Finnan is very good going forward, good touch, good passer and good movement but is simply yet to settle.

A centre half and a centre forward are the priorities this summer to take us onto another level. The current system imo is the reason we need the change in personel.

We've never needed pace at the back untill recently because we push higher up the pitch now and play a more open game than we used to. Gerrard has also become much more of an athlete this season and a leader so an open game is suiting him more aswell and we are starting to see him become consistently brilliant.

[Dalglish]

Finnons been here ALL season Stu !!!!! I know you coach Whiston Juniors , do you give some of your lads all season to settle in ? I know that probabbly not a fair comparison but Finnons no kid, he is an international and at 28 should find his feet a little quicker imo

For all the flak Biscan received the one thing he did bring to our defence was a little more pace and therefore we tended to play further up the pitch , since Henchoz has returned and more recently Carragher in the middle we have returned to our old ways with Hamann protected the "hole" which doesn' seem to need protecting by other teams in the Prem

[Owzat]

There isn't as big a gap between Newcastle and Liverpool and the top three as what this season has shown. That gap will be closed over the summer imo.

While I believe the gap can be closed, I'm not convinced it will be. manure were ***** this season and still finished well clear of us in fourth. Houllier has completely lost the plot and, as I have suspected for a while, the players and staff around him are losing faith in him. We were basically rescued by the brilliance of Gerrard and Owen yesterday, but for those two we could easily have lost to Newcastle who have not won away since October!!!!! 

While Houllier may have pulled us up to within spitting distance of the top three, we are in danger of falling away again. We basically need a top manager who can do what Wenger has done, because Chelski and manure can outspend us. If we want to compete, we need to unearth better players Cheyrou, Diouf, Biscan and Diao. I certainly don't see spending millions on the likes of Cisse as the way to go, that just reminds me of mediocre teams like spurs and villa trying to push into the "big time". Buying big isn't always buying clever

[115-1073096938]

While I believe the gap can be closed, I'm not convinced it will be. manure were ***** this season and still finished well clear of us in fourth. Houllier has completely lost the plot and, as I have suspected for a while, the players and staff around him are losing faith in him. We were basically rescued by the brilliance of Gerrard and Owen yesterday, but for those two we could easily have lost to Newcastle who have not won away since October!!!!! 

While Houllier may have pulled us up to within spitting distance of the top three, we are in danger of falling away again. We basically need a top manager who can do what Wenger has done, because Chelski and manure can outspend us. If we want to compete, we need to unearth better players Cheyrou, Diouf, Biscan and Diao. I certainly don't see spending millions on the likes of Cisse as the way to go, that just reminds me of mediocre teams like spurs and villa trying to push into the "big time". Buying big isn't always buying clever

Man Utd had a poor season and we underperformed.

With a normal run of injuries we would have had a similar points tally to them this season.

As for you referring to yesterdays game, it was a nothing event. We had nothing to play for, Newcastle did. Its much easier to motivate players when there is something to play for. If you deny that you are denying basic psychology. When you have two sides that aren't miles apart in terms of ability and one has something to play for and the other doesn't i'd expect the one that has a target to come off best regardless of home advantage. So basically you are just having another go at Houllier for nothing.

Buying big isn't always buying clever i agree. But buying Cisse is buying clever. He's a class act. He's not a good player in france like Cheyrou or Diouf was. Pires was one of the best players in france at the time arsenal signed him. Cisse is probably THE best player in france.

As for Arsenal and the Mancs being able to outspend us, thats exactly why it will take patience and continuity as apose to chopping and changing every 5 minutes.

We have 2 world class players. We have 3 top class players. We are signing another top class player in the summer. We have 3 quality players and we have about 7 or 8 good players.

If we add to this wisely in the summer we'll be much stronger next season, especially if its the right players with the right attributes to fit into the current system.

[stapo1000]

For all the flak Biscan received the one thing he did bring to our defence was a little more pace and therefore we tended to play further up the pitch , since Henchoz has returned and more recently Carragher in the middle we have returned to our old ways with Hamann protected the "hole" which doesn' seem to need protecting by other teams in the Prem

biscan broughtnothing to our team. every time i saw his name on the team sheet it made me nervous. he's barely good enough for nationwide football never mind liverpool. he just looks likev he doesn't want to be out there, he has no confidence and a poor touch. all in all a terrible buy that cost us a few points in the league this season.

[Owzat]

Man Utd had a poor season and we underperformed.

With a normal run of injuries we would have had a similar points tally to them this season.

boIIocks - we have had a "normal run of injuries". Unlike your perpetual claims that the combined absence of one or two players has crippled our season, the effect of Ferdiband's absence has been crystal clear. As for our "injury crisis", I think as I've pointed out before that lasted a few games and only Baros, Carragher and arguably Hamann have been out for a long period. Henchoz was left out while Houllier insisted on playing Biscan there so he can be excluded. The results don't back up your myth either, we haven't improved significantly since this "injury crisis" cleared.

Most consecutive losses = 3

vs Charlton - Dudek, Finnan, Hyypia, Biscan, Riise, Diouf, Gerrard, Smicer, Kewell, Heskey, Owen

vs Arsenal - Dudek, Finnan, Hyypia, Biscan, Riise, Diouf, Gerrard, Diao, Kewell, Owen, Smicer (Heskey sub)

vs Portsmouth - Dudek, Finnan, Hyypia, Henchoz,  Riise, Diouf, Gerrard, Biscan, Kewell, Heskey, Smicer

Not too shabby sides - Dudek, Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard, Diouf, Kewell and Heskey available for all. Owen available for two.

Baros has not been a regular choice when available, neither has Henchoz. That leaves Hamann and Carragher, hardly an "injury crisis"

And for comparison :-

vs Newcastle - Dudek, Finnan, Hyppia, Carragher, Riise, Murphy, Hamann, Gerrard, Kewell, Owen, Heskey (Baros and Henchoz subs - BY CHOICE)



For once and for all stu, I challenge you to prove your injury "myth" or shut the ***** up about it 

[Owzat]

And just by way of further evidence against the injury myth

Starts 2003/4

38 Hyypia
36 Kewell
34 Gerrard
30 Dudek
29 Owen
27 Biscan
25 Heskey, Hamann
22 Riise, Carragher
20 Diouf
19 Finnan, Murphy
15 Henchoz

Started or on bench ie available

38 Hyypia (100%)
36 Kewell (95%)
35 Heskey, Murphy, Dudek (92%)
33 Biscan, Riise (87%)
30 Owen (79%)
28 Diouf (74%)
27 Henchoz (71%)
26 Hamann (68%)
23 Carragher, Finnan (61%)
22 Smicer (58%)
18 Baros (47%)

I'd say we've probably had a very average run of injuries, 9 of the 15 missing no more than 10 games. That excludes suspensions which I think means we've had no crisis through absence whatsoever

[115-1073096938]

Again you show your lack of understanding, football knowledge, knowledge of pshycology and also your stupidity aswell as damn right ignorance and pathetic stats just to suit a ****** arguement that anyone with an ounce of common sense can see is false. Our injuries this season have cost us big time!!!

When you miss your first choice player and the backup option for that position you are going to suffer. Owen was out injured for three months. Now had Baros been available for those three months do you not think that would have softened the blow a little bit? Do you not think Baros would have started those games when Owen wasn't there? Do you not think Baros and Liverpool would have benifitted from this? Do you really think that missing these players at the same time happens all the time to all the clubs in the league? Check your facts and look at how many games Van Nistlerooy and Henry have played then come back.

Are you really that stupid?

As for Henchoz... remind me who played centre back in the first game of the season before going off injured? How long was he injured for?? How many games has Henchoz been available for and not played??

Also what your stats do not show is that we were left without a specialised right back for 11 LEAGUE games this season and tht was at the same time we were missing Hamann and Owen and Baros. Now, lets say Murphy is decent cover for Hamann, that means one position is not to bad but the right back position becomes a liability and the strikers role goes to a kid or another midfielder... and you expect that not to cost us anything at all?? It also doesn't show that when we played against United at home we were not only missing Hamann and Owen, but we didn't have Carragher, Henchoz or Baros available for selection. Its not like Only Owen was out so we could call upon Baros for a game... We had NO OPTIONS!!! Its not even like he could have changed it from the bench as there was nothing there worth bringing on.

Baros would have started had he been fit and so would Carragher and Hamann.

They also don't show in the first game of the season we were playing against a big spending chelsea side missing BOTH central midfielders. Not one but two at the same time. When you are playing against the big sides you need your best players fit and in the team, Alex Ferguson says that aswell as all the other top managers... in that game we were missing two of our best and probably the two most important positions in the side.

Also what your stats don't show is the obvious effect this has on confidence and morale of the team aswell as continuity and selection.

Don't give me this ****** about Houllier changing winning sides, when we win games and do well he rarely changes it unless he needs to and if he does its more times than not only one player.

Continuity and confidence are a massive part of football. Look at Arsenal.

[mrcool2003]

i think stu houllier made that excuse too many times, times have injuries but they dont make a excuse about it, wish he wouuld just get on with it

and thats balls about the excuse that we had nothing to play for was the reason we drew against newcastle, you sound just like houllier and i knew thats what you would say if we drew or got beat, but if we had of won convincing you would of been going, oh fantastic performance, you're just like houllier, so i'd rather you stop makin excuses and look at hte performance yesterday and take it on its own without excuses

does anyone agree with me?

[115-1073096938]

Nope.

They aren't excuses. We drew in a game which we played like an exhibition match. The fact is the effort wasn't really there yesterday and i'm genuinely not that bothered... it was a good game to watch and it was interesting the way the two teams played. Liverpool yesterday weren't bad, they were ok. Newcastle had something to play for.

Its basic human psychology. If you have insentive more often than not it improves performance.

How can you possibly disagree with that?