Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

The impression i got from Rafas interviews was that SG wasn't following instructions. Shocking as it may have been, if a player is too involved in the game to do as he is told then subbing is the managers perogative, whoever he is.

I very much doubt in the middle of a derby that Rafa is thinking 'i'll take SG off, that'll show the media'. Everyone knows he is close to being diagnosed with OCD with the amount he thinks about a game, so it would be out of character for him to substitute a player for vindictive reasons.

As i have said i personally would have hauled off Momo, but the managers the expert, and lets not forget Leivas' contribution in setting up an excellent chance for Voronin and shot which won the penalty. Its strange that even after a win against the blues Rafa is still getting grief, fck me what if we drew? Had the substitution been anyone but SG, it would have ben called inspired. 

Yes, that was my view, put in a decent english.

About your second paragraph, my point wasn't  that Rafa was trying to make a point to the media. My point was that rafa, exactly as he should, is completely ignoring the media as if they weren't there, and taking the decissions he thinks it's right. That's the proper thing to do. The ones who have to cope with the pressure are the owners. If they are not happy with Rafa, let them sack him and put an antirotationist or an ex player. If they are happy, they must let him work. It's as simple as that.

I'd be worried if we had a manager that change his ideas because some people write articles

[redtrader74]

The impression i got from Rafas interviews was that SG wasn't following instructions. Shocking as it may have been, if a player is too involved in the game to do as he is told then subbing is the managers perogative, whoever he is.

I very much doubt in the middle of a derby that Rafa is thinking 'i'll take SG off, that'll show the media'. Everyone knows he is close to being diagnosed with OCD with the amount he thinks about a game, so it would be out of character for him to substitute a player for vindictive reasons.

As i have said i personally would have hauled off Momo, but the managers the expert, and lets not forget Leivas' contribution in setting up an excellent chance for Voronin and shot which won the penalty. Its strange that even after a win against the blues Rafa is still getting grief, fck me what if we drew? Had the substitution been anyone but SG, it would have ben called inspired. 

Yes, that was my view, put in a decent english.

About your second paragraph, my point wasn't  that Rafa was trying to make a point to the media. My point was that rafa, exactly as he should, is completely ignoring the media as if they weren't there, and taking the decissions he thinks it's right. That's the proper thing to do. The ones who have to cope with the pressure are the owners. If they are not happy with Rafa, let them sack him and put an antirotationist or an ex player. If they are happy, they must let him work. It's as simple as that.

I'd be worried if we had a manager that change his ideas because some people write articles

I know you were not saying that Rafa substituted for the media, but some of the psychologists have now worked out that he is so stubborn that he did it to spite the media. 

[bigmick]

Had the substitution been anyone but SG, it would have ben called inspired. 

Totally agree with that bit, Lucas looked a really good player when he came on and is obviously a very talented footballer. He may even at 8 million squid be the latest in a number of shrewd aquisitions by the manager.

The point though surely about the Gerrard substitution is not that the bloke who came on to replace him, in his Premiership debut, in his Mersyside derby debut, with the scores 1-1 did well. The point about the substitution is that Gerrard was at the time he was hauled off and infact for the whole game in truth, the best player on view by an absolute bus-ride. He looked like the one player who was going to win it for us. That somebody else did with about 90 seconds to go doesn't make the substitution correct, it just means we got out of jail.

Gerard is not immune to being subbed. He could have been hauled off in any of a number of games recently but to do so when he was having his best game for ages, in a merseyside deby was just daft. To compound it all by doing the interview and saying what Rafa did compounded the silliness with a huge dose of public disrespect.

None of us really know about his man-management skills and those who hang on his every word are quick to shout down any suggestions that they may be lacking. If this is an example though and isn't considered by Rafa himself to be a mistake on reflection, then I fear for the future.

[Leonmc0708]

A few points

1) Did anyone think that Hibbert should not have been sent off ?

2) No players bigger or more important than the club and the team, and no one is "beyond substitution".

3) Anyone who says that the game yesterday, the nerves throughout, the joy of the goals, the win and celebrations later on is not bigger than United or Chelsea needs their bumps feeling.

[Ace Ventura]

Lando, come out with all the rubbish that you usually do, defending the manager blindly. You shock me mate you really do, Rafa got lucky yesterday, yes we won....but that was DESPITE RAFA, how many times is this happening...you may think i am a clueless moron...i think you are blind. Its as straight forward as that, there is no excuse or valid reason for taking our best player off...but you put them specs on...they are not red tinted more rafa tinted.
You are becoming the minority lad...so there are obviously thousands of morons that support our club.

[Leonmc0708]

yes we won....but that was DESPITE RAFA

You have already clearly tied your colours to the mast in terms of wether you like Rafa or not, but thats one strange quote that mate.

Has peewee robbed your log in Ace or what ?

[Sabre]

yes we won....but that was DESPITE RAFA

You have already clearly tied your colours to the mast in terms of wether you like Rafa or not, but thats one strange quote that mate.

Has peewee robbed your log in Ace or what ?

Look lads, we all are Liverpool fans, we all are happy for winning yesterday, we all love gerrard.

We simply disagree on the degree of satisfaction with the manager. I think an universal phenomenom as a fan or a supporter is we all have cycles concerning the managers. With every manager of Liverpool or my Spanish club, I always had stages of faith, and stages in which I lost the faith.

So let's just assume that we're in different stages of trust to the manager, and let's all be friends.

Ace, you know you're not a moron, and you're well appreciated -- at least by me, you also know Lando long enough, to not take too personally when he has a go, he's done that forever when something touches his football nerves, but let's not take a disagreemnt too personally FFS, I'm saying this to all of us, including me.

[Igor Zidane]

Had the substitution been anyone but SG, it would have ben called inspired. 

Totally agree with that bit, Lucas looked a really good player when he came on and is obviously a very talented footballer. He may even at 8 million squid be the latest in a number of shrewd aquisitions by the manager.

The point though surely about the Gerrard substitution is not that the bloke who came on to replace him, in his Premiership debut, in his Mersyside derby debut, with the scores 1-1 did well. The point about the substitution is that Gerrard was at the time he was hauled off and infact for the whole game in truth, the best player on view by an absolute bus-ride. He looked like the one player who was going to win it for us. That somebody else did with about 90 seconds to go doesn't make the substitution correct, it just means we got out of jail.

Gerard is not immune to being subbed. He could have been hauled off in any of a number of games recently but to do so when he was having his best game for ages, in a merseyside deby was just daft. To compound it all by doing the interview and saying what Rafa did compounded the silliness with a huge dose of public disrespect.

None of us really know about his man-management skills and those who hang on his every word are quick to shout down any suggestions that they may be lacking. If this is an example though and isn't considered by Rafa himself to be a mistake on reflection, then I fear for the future.

The manager has nothing to apologise for mick , he lives or dies by his decisions . He made a tactical sub imo (which happend to be gerrard) and he got it right. It wasn't luck that lucas was in that position to score , that's what he was put on for. You said yourself he is no way a defensive midfielder . He was put on to change the game and he did. We had more posession and more chances and ultimatley a winning goal after the substitution was made. I can't understand all the negativity i really can't. Maybe i am happy clappy or rose tinted ,but surley it's madness to give the boss such a hard time after a win in a local derby.The only lucky thing about that game yesterday was that we didn't concede a pen and carra didn't get himself sent off. Which has nothing to do with the gerrard sub.

[redtrader74]

Had the substitution been anyone but SG, it would have ben called inspired. 

Totally agree with that bit, Lucas looked a really good player when he came on and is obviously a very talented footballer. He may even at 8 million squid be the latest in a number of shrewd aquisitions by the manager.

The point though surely about the Gerrard substitution is not that the bloke who came on to replace him, in his Premiership debut, in his Mersyside derby debut, with the scores 1-1 did well. The point about the substitution is that Gerrard was at the time he was hauled off and infact for the whole game in truth, the best player on view by an absolute bus-ride. He looked like the one player who was going to win it for us. That somebody else did with about 90 seconds to go doesn't make the substitution correct, it just means we got out of jail.

Gerard is not immune to being subbed. He could have been hauled off in any of a number of games recently but to do so when he was having his best game for ages, in a merseyside deby was just daft. To compound it all by doing the interview and saying what Rafa did compounded the silliness with a huge dose of public disrespect.

None of us really know about his man-management skills and those who hang on his every word are quick to shout down any suggestions that they may be lacking. If this is an example though and isn't considered by Rafa himself to be a mistake on reflection, then I fear for the future.

Mick not for a second did i think good call Rafa, i just like everyone else wanted Momo off, but the decision paid off, the sub performed, and had it been Maschrano taken off, who played well too, Rafa would be being patted on the back.

My take on things is that SG wasn't following the game plan, right or wrong, but thats Rafas call. All through the game our best play as a team, which i am more concerned about rather than an individuals performance, was when we slowed down, held the ball, and passed it in combinations, thats where all our threat came from, apart form SG'S run on goal, and i would applaud in retrospect the change that would bring about more of that.

I don't think Rafa should have said what he said, especially as it could be miscontrued, and anytime form now until eternity that SG looks as though he needs a hug, this will brought up again and again.

[bigmick]

A few points

1) Did anyone think that Hibbert should not have been sent off ?

2) No players bigger or more important than the club and the team, and no one is "beyond substitution".

3) Anyone who says that the game yesterday, the nerves throughout, the joy of the goals, the win and celebrations later on is not bigger than United or Chelsea needs their bumps feeling.

1) No Hibbert had to go 100%. If it's a foul he has to go it's as simple as that. Gerrard was 100% within his rights to point that out to ref (in passing, he hardly got in his face) as Clattenberg was clearly considering bottling it. Fair play to Gerrard for me.

2) Not only is Gerrard not "beyond substitution", but there a quite a few games recently where he could quite easily have been subbed. Not though in all honesty yesterday.

3) Scousers always feel it more than OOTers mate. When I was living darn sarf beating Arsenal when I lived in Islington was sweet, Chelsea when we lived in Wimbledon. Man Utd is always lovely just because it is, while when we beat Everton I'm happiest for you real scousers. You can see it on the faces of the fans and players as they celebrate how much it means. That if I'm honest I don't quite get the same buzz sitting on me sofa, freezing me nuts off at 3 o'clock in the morning with tele' turned down to volume 2 so as not to wake the kids up is just one of those things I suppose    If it's OK with you though I'll feel me own bumps ta 

[Owzat]

A few points

1) Did anyone think that Hibbert should not have been sent off ?

It was a red card, same as Neville's and arguably Kuyt should have gone too

A few points
2) No players bigger or more important than the club and the team, and no one is "beyond substitution".

There's a time and a place for that and it was not then. Make a point in a game we're winning or by making him sub in a future game, many are emphasising the three points and you have to keep on the players who are performing (Gerrard) and take off those who are not (Sissoko)

A few points
3) Anyone who says that the game yesterday, the nerves throughout, the joy of the goals, the win and celebrations later on is not bigger than United or Chelsea needs their bumps feeling.

We beat the bitters too often and the mancs not enough for me to think that isn't bull, Chelsea maybe but beating the mancs is so satisfying and of course it shuts them up. Rafa hasn't beaten the mancs in the league, and only the one Crouch winner in the FA Cup so I for one shall go mental if/when we do beat them in the league.

And I don't need my "bumps feeling", beating rivals is a great feeling and I don't see the point trying to make out one as more satisfying than the other. However, losing to the mancs is slightly more 'acceptable' given their stature compared to the blues. So d Chelsea altogether, don't get why you even mention them in that context

[Leonmc0708]

A few points
3) Anyone who says that the game yesterday, the nerves throughout, the joy of the goals, the win and celebrations later on is not bigger than United or Chelsea needs their bumps feeling.

We beat the bitters too often and the mancs not enough for me to think that isn't bull, Chelsea maybe but beating the mancs is so satisfying and of course it shuts them up. Rafa hasn't beaten the mancs in the league, and only the one Crouch winner in the FA Cup so I for one shall go mental if/when we do beat them in the league.

And I don't need my "bumps feeling", beating rivals is a great feeling and I don't see the point trying to make out one as more satisfying than the other. However, losing to the mancs is slightly more 'acceptable' given their stature compared to the blues. So d Chelsea altogether, don't get why you even mention them in that context

I mentioned Chelsea as some on here have suggested this was our biggest game of the season.

[account deleted by request]

What is it about Gerrard that makes people want to have a go at him. I don't remember all this fuss when Carra ran half the length of the field to protest about Gattuso not being sent off for fouling Gerrard in the CL final. Gerrard did nothing wrong IMHO.

Strange decision by Rafa bringing Gerrard off, and I don't believe their was one Liverpool fan screaming and shouting for Gerrard to be replaced.........quite a few wanting Sissoko off mind you. However it worked! Luck or genius, we got the 3 points, so there is no real argument against it.

I am more concerned that our forwards look as if they couldn't score in a brothel, than the reason Rafa gave for the substitution.

I get greater pleasure beating the Mancs, but I do understand others prefer beating Everton.

[Sabre]

S@int says

I am more concerned that our forwards look as if they couldn't score in a brothel, than the reason Rafa gave for the substitution.

I second this post match concern.

[Emerald Red]

I am more concerned that our forwards look as if they couldn't score in a brothel, than the reason Rafa gave for the substitution.

Which begs the question: why hasn't Crouch been used more this season?