Liverpool FC Forum

[Bermenstein]

IF (and its a big IF by the way) West Ham by some miracle manage to get a point against Chelsea then this weekends results make NO DIFFERENCE at all, and will make the result meaningless.

It would be great if Chelsea also slip up tomorrow, and very fortunate if they do. This seasons so far is banana skins for the top four.

If Chelsea fail to win tomorrow, thats the "Top 4" not winning again in a weekend. Very strange indeed.

But if our home games against Stoke, Fulham, West Ham & now Hull had all been victories, we'd have been 10 points clear and a much more confident bunch.

Thats what the REAL DIFFERENCE would be.

[Leonmc0708]

IF (and its a big IF by the way) West Ham by some miracle manage to get a point against Chelsea then this weekends results make NO DIFFERENCE at all, and will make the result meaningless.

It would be great if Chelsea also slip up tomorrow, and very fortunate if they do. This seasons so far is banana skins for the top four.

If Chelsea fail to win tomorrow, thats the "Top 4" not winning again in a weekend. Very strange indeed.

But if our home games against Stoke, Fulham, West Ham & now Hull had all been victories, we'd have been 10 points clear and a much more confident bunch.

Thats what the REAL DIFFERENCE would be.

If I'd have just picked different numbers on the lotto . . . .  .

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

how many points do we have to let slip before it does become a problem, these are the game where you put the points in the bag, this is the best chance we have ever had to win the premier and where letting it slip away with very poor performances indeed, just because where still ahead does not mean all is rosy.

i really do hope we can atleast mount a challenge to the end of the season put i cant see us winning the league when where playing players who would not get into another top 4 side, we either sell and buy come jan or we blow it

[Bermenstein]

IF (and its a big IF by the way) West Ham by some miracle manage to get a point against Chelsea then this weekends results make NO DIFFERENCE at all, and will make the result meaningless.

It would be great if Chelsea also slip up tomorrow, and very fortunate if they do. This seasons so far is banana skins for the top four.

If Chelsea fail to win tomorrow, thats the "Top 4" not winning again in a weekend. Very strange indeed.

But if our home games against Stoke, Fulham, West Ham & now Hull had all been victories, we'd have been 10 points clear and a much more confident bunch.

Thats what the REAL DIFFERENCE would be.

If I'd have just picked different numbers on the lotto . . . .  .

I can give you next weeks lotto if you want 

PM me.......

[Number 9]

Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

Well you could compare the results Leon in the sense that the Mancs actually beat Hull at home, whereas Chelsea smacked their erse away. Equally, we lost at White Hart Lane, whereas the Mancs drew.

I'm simply making the point that whatever any of the other teams do this weekend, us failing to beat Hull at Home given the situation and what has gone before, is an absolutely terrible result.

You could also say we beat UTD at Anfield and scalped Chelsea at home...but that would make us look good!

[teamleader1]

How the fk did Dossena get on the pitch and Keane never?
Dossena is playing complete **** why put such an obvious liability on when we have a real shout for the title?
If he wont go with Insua then switch Arbeloa to LB bring in Agger and put Carra RB, we would have never been 2-0 down.
To put Benayoun on the right and move kuyt up front was poor when we had a 20ml striker on the bench
Benetez is our biggest liability this season, it looks very much like hes holding a personel grudge against Keane, just like he did with Alonso
He needs to climb out of his own jacksy before we limp out of the title race

[bigmick]

Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Got to disagree.

I think thats a poor argument.

United are direct competition for the league thus comparing results is EXACTLY what we should do. If we can at least match teh results of United and Chelse for the rest of this season, we would win the league.

We have been playing pretty average and are still up there, which is what we need to do until our and this leagues top strikers returns from injury.

Frustrated.

Disclaimer - I dont think Rafa is beyond criticism, and feel he should have replaced Kuyt on the hour, preferably with KEane.

Well you could compare the results Leon in the sense that the Mancs actually beat Hull at home, whereas Chelsea smacked their erse away. Equally, we lost at White Hart Lane, whereas the Mancs drew.

I'm simply making the point that whatever any of the other teams do this weekend, us failing to beat Hull at Home given the situation and what has gone before, is an absolutely terrible result.

You could also say we beat UTD at Anfield and scalped Chelsea at home...but that would make us look good!

You could Barry yes, and it would make us look good. Equally, you could compare our result with the one we achieved last week at Blackburn, or the Manc's two defeats to Man City in the league last season. You could compare our result to the last time we played Hull in the league, in 1953 or whatever it was.

It still won't make any difference though, failing to beat Hull at Home in that football match was an awful result. That is the truth irrespective of Man Utd "only" drawing at White Hart lane, ot Chelsea doing whatever they do tomorrow. That was and is my point.

[Madmax]

Rafa stated previously that we will win the title only if the other challengers drop points. Well i think this is the forth time that we have not taken dropped pointed from others to our advantage. We should be well ahead by atleast 8-10 points. This is really becomming annoying now. Every time we draw we are hoping chelsea,mancs and arsenal drop points. lucky for use two of those drew today. Were just waiting for chelsea to slip up 2mrw which i really doubt. Rafa has a bizarre style at times. I dont know why he kept kuyt on and still ponder why keane was not given a few mins. Were top of the league but funny thing is it feels so shyte because of our form. We have to keep out away form immaculate. We are rusty at anfield which is a shame. Team must think now yeah lets go to anfield were guaranteed a point atleast!!

[Fo Dne]

So realistically without Torres, goals were always likely to be a problem, what I didn't expect was our defensive frailties.

Defensively S@int the stats aren't too bad, but I've been increasingly concerned over these last few weeks about the  slight styling which is going on.

The centre halves are seemingly rotated dependant on the opposition, and whether or not they occasionally sling a high ball into the box. Hyppia plays sometimes, Agger the others. It doesn't really work ona  regualr basis, we've tried it before so we know, it doesn't work. Yes if you're playing a modern day Wimbledon it makes sense to draught Sami in, but we know from experience if you rotate the centre-halves refgularly you suffer eventually.

Equally, at full back why did Insua play at Blackburn? Dossena can't be tired surely as he has probably played one game in two. Dossena had infact put a couple of decentish performances in, so why play Insua? You could then argue, having taken the decision to play him, why not leave him in as he had a solid enough debut?

Instead we rotate it back, Dossena comes back in and he and Riera on the evidence of the first goal today don't communicate with each other.

In all honesty, from a defensive point of view Dossena is absolutely awful, and if there's a worse defender at left back in the Premiership I haven't seen him yet. Having said that, the fella Abissomour Abou or whatever the feck he was called who played for Spurs against us was absolutely awful, and I think he might have been a left back.

Whatever anyway, too much styling in defence and too much Dossena.

No no no, how dare you slag our defense off? Its world class and better than every other teams in the league. We have no weaknesses at the back. Its not the defending thats going to cost us points is it.

Arbeloa's the best in the league, Carraghers the best in the world and better than Ferdinand, Agger is amazing and well better than Ferdinand and Vidic and everyone else and Dossena was signed by Rafa and is an italian international and Rafa knows what he's doing so Dossena must be world class too.

said this at the start of the season and BOTH of you two had a go at me saying how strong our defence was. Like I said at the time, it wasn't a prediction. Our defence isn't upto it!

[LiverpoolMadman]

We should kill the game in the 1st half , and sub key players to prepare our next match. Rafa made a mistake and this is not the 1st time he did that ....

[bigmick]

No no no, how dare you slag our defense off? Its world class and better than every other teams in the league. We have no weaknesses at the back. Its not the defending thats going to cost us points is it.

Arbeloa's the best in the league, Carraghers the best in the world and better than Ferdinand, Agger is amazing and well better than Ferdinand and Vidic and everyone else and Dossena was signed by Rafa and is an italian international and Rafa knows what he's doing so Dossena must be world class too.

said this at the start of the season and BOTH of you two had a go at me saying how strong our defence was. Like I said at the time, it wasn't a prediction. Our defence isn't upto it!

In fairness I think our defense with Aurelio in for Dossena is good enough to do a job in most situations. I've never gone down the route of saying Carragher or Agger are better players than Ferdinand or Vidic, but as unit ours aren't a bad lot. They wouldn't be the best defence in the league, but with Masherano in front of them they won't concede many.

Stick Dossena into the equation though and on the evidence of today you have a major issue. I also must say that while I don't think Agger has quite rediscovered his form pre-injury, I do think he is better than the 2008 version of Sami Hyppia and the selection of big Sami was another "Rafaism" today which is beyond me.

Pretty much every football person I've ever known has been of the opinion that it's vital that your centre-halves have an understanding which comes from playing together regularly. Maybe they were all wrong and it's OK to rotate them, but I've never been convinced by the evidence of us trying it.

So in conclusion, our defense with Masherano in front of it is good enough to do the job IMHO. It's not watertight, but then the best defense in the league (Man Utd) probably isn't quite up to what it was in the past what with the young kid finding his feet at full back and Van Der Sar a year older. Ours wouldn't be as good as theirs, but if the rest of the team functions well, and as long as the Italian bloke isn't playing, it's good enough to do the job IMHO.

[Fo Dne]

No no no, how dare you slag our defense off? Its world class and better than every other teams in the league. We have no weaknesses at the back. Its not the defending thats going to cost us points is it.

Arbeloa's the best in the league, Carraghers the best in the world and better than Ferdinand, Agger is amazing and well better than Ferdinand and Vidic and everyone else and Dossena was signed by Rafa and is an italian international and Rafa knows what he's doing so Dossena must be world class too.

said this at the start of the season and BOTH of you two had a go at me saying how strong our defence was. Like I said at the time, it wasn't a prediction. Our defence isn't upto it!

In fairness I think our defense with Aurelio in for Dossena is good enough to do a job in most situations. I've never gone down the route of saying Carragher or Agger are better players than Ferdinand or Vidic, but as unit ours aren't a bad lot. They wouldn't be the best defence in the league, but with Masherano in front of them they won't concede many.

Stick Dossena into the equation though and on the evidence of today you have a major issue. I also must say that while I don't think Agger has quite rediscovered his form pre-injury, I do think he is better than the 2008 version of Sami Hyppia and the selection of big Sami was another "Rafaism" today which is beyond me.

Pretty much every football person I've ever known has been of the opinion that it's vital that your centre-halves have an understanding which comes from playing together regularly. Maybe they were all wrong and it's OK to rotate them, but I've never been convinced by the evidence of us trying it.

So in conclusion, our defense with Masherano in front of it is good enough to do the job IMHO. It's not watertight, but then the best defense in the league (Man Utd) probably isn't quite up to what it was in the past what with the young kid finding his feet at full back and Van Der Sar a year older. Ours wouldn't be as good as theirs, but if the rest of the team functions well, and as long as the Italian bloke isn't playing, it's good enough to do the job IMHO.

Considering Sami's been one of our better players in the last two games I'd say you're a bit of the mark saying that. However, I do understand the point you're making about needless changes.

But the facts are we aren't good enough in to many positions. You're saying "if" Aurelio's fit, well Mick, I've not seen a player as injury prone as him for aslong as I can remember. Not one who's fit one week and out the next anyway. I like Aurelio, I just think he's far to unreliable in terms of injury's. It is literally every other game he misses. I can't remember him playing two games in a row, where as most other players you can normally not remember them being able to play two in a row.

With regards to the centre halfs I said in the summer we needed one and I still stand by it. Also we need a right back. Arbeloa has done well this season and is consistent at what he does but he's definately not the answer. Good back up most definately but should never be a first team player.

As for Mascherano Mick its not just because of him. We've got Gerrard and Alonso in there aswell. Both of which are very good defensively. For me Mascherano shouldn't be anywhere near the first team. Especially on current form.

[Ciggy]

Im totally depressed about yesterdays game, Rafa blamed the players for not taking their chances, he should take the blame for bringing a midfielder on instead of a striker when we needed to win.

[andy_g]

the thins that concerns me, apart from not beating teams we should beat at home, is these 'lost' 8 points from the recent games against stoke, west ham, fulham and hull. before the season started we'd have looked at the fixture list and regarded these as bankers. based on us being top and doing ok we were then looking at this block of games and rubbing our hands together as we imagined ourselves pulling away a little at the top. instead we are all here banging our heads against the wall and wondering why we have scored only two goals against these teams and only gained 4 points.

what i'm thinking is that come may we will be looking at our points total, adding on those lost 8 points, and realising that the combined points total would have made us champions.

[jonsnow]

Every team is dropping points this season. Maure, Gooners, Cheatski, the league is not as cut and dried as it used to be. People know how to play for those valuable points that can ensure survival. I'm far from happy about yesterdays result, but a lot happier than i was 20 mins into the game.